Quickly narrowed down the problem this time. Starting with the gauge (Permanently hooked up now) showing 5 PSI of fuel pressure. I could not hear if the pump was running next to I-95 and 10 lanes of traffic. When it was dropped off here, I can not hear the fuel pump. Checking the fuses, I had a blown fuel pump fuse. I replaced it, and when turning on the key, it blew that fuse as well. That is where I am till I get a chance to dig around back in there for more broken, shorted, frayed or whatever the hell wires.
I can say this is a brand new problem. In the 9 times that I have been stranded with the car, I have never blown a fuel pump fuse. This is just a curve ball the car is throwing at me once I had thought it was fixed.
Quickly narrowed down the problem this time. Starting with the gauge (Permanently hooked up now) showing 5 PSI of fuel pressure. I could not hear if the pump was running next to I-95 and 10 lanes of traffic. When it was dropped off here, I can not hear the fuel pump. Checking the fuses, I had a blown fuel pump fuse. I replaced it, and when turning on the key, it blew that fuse as well. That is where I am till I get a chance to dig around back in there for more broken, shorted, frayed or whatever the hell wires.
I can say this is a brand new problem. In the 9 times that I have been stranded with the car, I have never blown a fuel pump fuse. This is just a curve ball the car is throwing at me once I had thought it was fixed.
Quick question sir. Are you using the fuel pressure gauge from harbor freight?
I picked one of those up last year (looks just like yours, which is a tiny bit different then the one in the picture) but have not had a chance to play with it. Did you need to buy an extra fitting for the valve port?
[This message has been edited by GodSend (edited 03-15-2015).]
Quick question sir. Are you using the fuel pressure gauge from harbor freight? [....] Did you need to buy an extra fitting for the valve port?
Yep, same one from HF. No fitting is needed at all. One of the hoses is set to go. one end connects to the schrader valve on the fuel rail and the other end right to the gauge.
Yep, same one from HF. No fitting is needed at all. One of the hoses is set to go. one end connects to the schrader valve on the fuel rail and the other end right to the gauge.
Awesome, ill take a look next weekend and see what I can figure out. Cheers.
Not that I do not thank you for the effort, but it Sounds like you missed not just a couple of posts, but the whole thread!
I have a half dozen good ICM's as that is a lot of what it seemed like a lot of the times in the past. However I have GOOD SOLID SPARK. As for the distributor, I have replaced it as well as installing a new pick up coil on it. Unless you meant the distributor cap, of which I am on the 3rd one Lastly I am not sure how either a bad distributor or ICM would be blowing the fuel pump fuse.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-16-2015).]
In my opinion the logical next step since you found a stripped ECM wire... maybe there's also one for the fuel pump in there? The fuel pump wire goes the same way as the ECM harness from the engine right to the ALDL port.
There are no light green ground wires in the OEM Fiero wiring harness. The light green wires are: C12 - MAP 'B' C15 - Injectors 2,4,6 D16 - Injectors 2,4,6
There are no light green ground wires in the OEM Fiero wiring harness. The light green wires are: C12 - MAP 'B' C15 - Injectors 2,4,6 D16 - Injectors 2,4,6
The following are quotes from another thread I started, I am trying to keep this all in one place if possible.
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Originally posted by Csjag: I notice that you had your start problems at Daytona in the mornings after the car had sat out in the moist air all night and then after the car had sat during the day it would start. That seems as if it could be moisture condensing inside an electrical connector.
That is possible..... But Friday morning, I came out and started the car at 7:15 am. It was most definitely the wettest morning out of all of them. We had a cool front come through, and everything on Friday morning was covered in a layer of mist. One of those morning when you turn the wipers on, and the fog build back up on the window before the wiper returns for another pass.
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Originally posted by engine man: Get Captain Dean over there and get it all repaired . Did you go to south America and go to a Voodoo Ritual where they had a doll of your Fiero sticking pins in the engine
This car has had Captain Dean scratching his head for months. He has been MORE than generous in lending his time and knowledge. To answer your question,Yes, the previous owner did.
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Originally posted by Csjag: I may have missed this in the many posts on your cars gremlins so forgive me if this was already mentioned: Have you done a diagnostic readout of the car using an aldl cable? That might point you to the latest trouble area.
When hooking up my laptop, I am not throwing any trouble codes, and none of the readings are out of the ordinary.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-30-2015).]
I'm still preaching yea should put a 3800sc or a carburated V8 in there and be done with it..... with the moneys ya spent so far it would of been done !!! Good luck my friend Danyel
I'm still preaching yea should put a 3800sc or a carburated V8 in there and be done with it..... with the moneys ya spent so far it would of been done !!! Good luck my friend Danyel
That is my ultimate goal. Unfortunately right now I can not swing it financially. I just got cut back at work, and it looks like a warning to be looking for another job real soon. Kinda scary, as I have not had to look for a job in more than 15 years.
I will slowly start building up the parts to do it for sure. I have been looking for a 3800SC on and off for the past few months. My nephew just was rear ended and totaled his 3800 Impala a couple weeks back, but it was naturally aspirated unfortunately. Of course with the insurance payout, he went and got another Impala, a 2004 with a 3800SC in it! He is in the Marines, and drove down from his base in SC to visit me at Daytona. Patrick told him to " not be surprised if he awoke to find his car in a bathtub full of ice missing an engine!" LOL!
Ok, the latest drama of this POS car. When it did actually decide to start in Daytona, I started to head home. I noticed a slight miss in the engine, every few seconds or so, it would sputter.
By the time I got the car home, it was running really rough. I just parked it since Sunday, and left it alone, and did not look at it for fear of me setting it on fire, or just smashing it or something.
I got a chance to try to see if I could figure out the completely new problem. All the plug wires are productin g solid spark, as I used a spark tester on each and every one of them. Digging further, I decided to mess with the fuses
With the engine running, rough I might add, I pulled the "TBI INJ1" fuse and the car died. I put the fuse back in, and started it back up. I then pulled the "TBI INJ2" fuse and nothing happened. The car continued to run rough. So now it seems I have something completely new causing the second bank of injectors not to fire. A bad wire, a bad ECM or God knows what else.
I really thought things were going Ok, I drove the car all the Way to Daytona without issue. I come out EARLY Friday morning, and take the car to breakfast and about 100 mile cruise through out the day starting and stopping numerous times. Saturday morning I come out to take the car across the street to the show, and it refuses to start. 3 Fiero mechanics can make NO sense of what is wrong, as it has fuel pressure and spark. The same thing on Sunday. Then miraculously it just decides to start and run perfect again.
Honest to God, how is it possible that I am having all of these problems.... I have worked hard to restore this car, and it has fought me every F'ing step of the way. I spend weeks trouble shooting to find what is causing a problem and fix it. The car runs for a few days, just to just have another unrelated problem pop up. Rinse and repeat. This has happened about 15 times now... over and over and over again.....
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-03-2015).]
+1 It sure sounds like another broken wire. Seems likely to be a neighbor to the previous discovery. Also likely a neighbor to others.
RE Frustration: Your situation is not all that unusual. IMHO this is how cars become "used cars." Anytime you buy a car that's not new more than likely someone got tired of dealing with some problem they couldn't solve. My first Fiero had a problem with the ignition switch that took a couple years to sort out. When you get this right you won't want to get rid of the car even though that might otherwise make perfect sense. Yours is really a nice looking Fiero, even on a flatbed.
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: RE Frustration: Your situation is not all that unusual.
Are you kidding
I can go back to the beginning when I took my 90mm headlight buckets to get powder coated at Toliver Powder Coating, a huge and well known business here. When all was said and done, they screwed them up 3 times, and then gave up, and I got a pair of sandblasted, rusty & bent buckets and my money back. almost 2 months of time, just to get the headlight buckets powder coated, luckily by Alex, another local Fiero owner.
I had the passenger window replaced by a professional installer. It took him 3 times coming out here for various reasons to get the job done. On the 4th attempt he shattered the window and it took weeks to source a new one. Even then the window would not go up and down correctly, and it took another 2 times driving to their shop to sort it out.
Now still, to this day, with the new glass in both doors, refurbished regulator tracks lubed well with grease, new window motors, new door lock solenoids, all of that and the windows have to be assisted by pulling them up at times to close, and I still have to lock/unlock 5-6 times to get it to lock/unlock.
I spent a lot of time and effort cleaning and prepping the sunroof track area and putting in new tracks from the Fiero Store. I had painted the tracks with 3 coats of black rustoleum paint before installing them on the newly painted car. One year later they had turned to rusted dust and I had to do it all over again. (Yes I have the drain holes in all 4 corners). This and the car has been under a carport (no rain) for that entire year.
I purchased all new wheels with new tires pre-installed on them. I had to peel the stickers off of the tires before mounting them. When I went to get the car aligned, it took them 4 trips to their shop, and having to leave it a full day on a Saturday to get it right. During the process it was noticed that the tires were dry rotting. (I only put around 100 miles on these tires) Looking up the lot numbers on the tires, they were 20+ years old. Thus a second set of tires and $500 later.
Don't get me started on what it took just to get a paint job that I paid $3,000 for, that is still not done after being painted for a 3rd time now over the course of a year and a half! That and the ENTIRE interior that I put all the work into. It was completely ruined by leaving the car out in the rain at Maaco with no front window, door windows down, and the sunroof out. I had to to start all over again with carpets, mats, door panels, head liner, shorted out instrument cluster, and so forth.
Dropping the gas tank no less that 5 times now for weird issues that could not be tracked down. Fuel leaks, a bad filler hose, bad lines in the tank, a bad brand new fuel pump that turned out to be bad, I'm on my 3rd EMC in the car, 5th ICM, I replaced the complete distributor and pickup coil. I am on the 2nd cap rotor and set of plug wires & plugs, new TPS, new rebuilt Throttle body, new Wire to the ICM from the ECM and spliced the the other ICM wire in under the plenum. All on a crate motor that I installed a brand new starter, alternator, AC compressor, Metal Impeller water pump before the engine was installed. I installed all new rubber cooling hoses throughout, new radiator fan and radiator, new vacuum lines everywhere. New Grand AM brake calipers and slotted and drilled rotors on the front, New stock calipers and rotors on the back. New shocks and 100% of all bushing, tie rod ends, & ball joints have been replaced.
I paid an A/C tech to install a brand a brand new A/C compressor, accumulator and charge the system. It blew cold, until the next day. Not ONE thing on this car has been able to have been done once. Nothing that I can think of.
All of this and I still can not trust the car to go to the corner store. This car has been on the bed of a flatbed tow truck and drug home a total of 5 times in the past year alone.
Now I want someone to tell me that is all normal, just because it is a used car.......
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-03-2015).]
Sounds like a small but a definite electrical problem. Could also the door lock solenoids and window motors work bad because of low power getting to them? Bunch of bad wires sounds like a reasonable issue especially after finding just 1 wire in a whole harness that was under stress.
A severed (but not totally cut) wire has a smaller current carrying capacity than the normal diameter wire designed for that circuit. It might not be easy to diagnose. Either that or poor grounds that are electrically the same thing as a severed wire - higher resistance equals less current and therefore less power. On wires that carry very little current like inejctor banks it won't be an issue unless it actually causes a break or a short.
[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 04-04-2015).]
Ok, I have done some testing, and not sure where to go from here. CaptnDean was here, I used a Noid Light to test the 2nd & 3rd wires in this diagram.
The second one, green wire, lit up the noid light quite brightly. The 3rd wire, the blue one, lit up the Noid light with the pulses, but was not as bright. I switched places with Dean, and he tested and got the same results when I cranked the car.
I took out the center console and swapped out the ECM. When I started the car, it still ran on just the one back of injectors. With the car running, I can pull the INJ 2 fuse, and nothing changes. If I pull out INJ 1, the engine dies of course. I swapped the fuses of course, as well as testing them with a continuity tester. Next we moved onto pulling the distributor cap, and swapped out the ICM. Still only the one bank of injectors is firing.
Today digging around, I can find no other breaks in wires.
Thinking this through, it could be the injectors themselves, till you think about the odds of 3 injectors going bad, all at the same time, and on the same bank. Pretty unlikely.
What could cause the Noid light not being as bright when testing the one bank? I tested with a 12v+ jumper directly to the battery, and the other pin of the noid light connected to the pin inside the plug in the above picture. Therefore the 12v+ is constant during testing. That only leaves a possible change in the pulsed 12v- from the ECM. All grounds to the engine, ECM, frame are good. I would have thought for certain it has to do with the ICM or at least the ECM, but that is not the case.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-22-2015).]
sounds like you have some sort of resistance in the wire like it is making connection but not a good connection so it wont carry enough current to fire the injectors but the light uses much less current so it will light
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 04-05-2015).]
Jumper from the plug to the ECU to eliminate the green wire. If this eliminates the issue, the problem is with the green wire. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the green wire terminates at two pins on the ECU, providing the ground path for the injector circuit. With this said, check the injector harness to engine harness plugs for corrosion on the pins and also at the pin / wire connection.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 04-05-2015).]
Originally posted by olejoedad: Jumper from the plug to the ECU to eliminate the green wire.
I will jumper the blue wire, as the green one appears to be carrying enough current by the brightness of the Noid Light. Wow, the weekend is gone already, hopefully I can sneak some time in this week to run a separate wire from the ECM into that plug and test.
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Originally posted by olejoedad: check the injector harness to engine harness plugs for corrosion on the pins and also at the pin / wire connection.
As mentioned in previous posts, All of the terminals on the ECM, and the plugs that go into it all appear factory new. No corrosion in any way. I still hit them with some contact cleaner spray just to make sure of a clean connectors as well.
Not harness to ECU, but the plugs on the engine that connect the main engine harness to the injector sub-harness. FYI, contact cleaner doesn't remove corrosion from moisture intrusion, mechanical cleaning (scraping) is required.
John, I've mentioned it before and I stand by my words: You might want to just replace the harness from one end to the other. Red Devil River (I think he's phonedawgz on here) builds swap harnesses. Maybe he could build you a stock harness. I know it's a pain, but how much pain have you already been through? And if you do it and it still stalls, you can have me put in stocks and publicly egged. But I might enjoy that, so it might not be much of a punishment.
Lastly I am not sure how either a bad distributor or ICM would be blowing the fuel pump fuse.
