Thank you to all those keeping the Fiero Legend alive and well: In my opinion I think the Fiero was ahead of it time, and if GM had as much faith in the car it would today be one of those pocket rocket that it was meant to be. I wish to thank those on Pennock’s Fiero Forum, most notably Bloozeberry and FieroGuru I have spend most of my reading those builds, I have great respect for someone who takes something good and make it something great. I have a 1988 Fiero GT that I am the 3rd owner the other two owners took really good care of the car and I have been in touch with the first owner sorta letting know who has the car and that is being taken care of. I have been thinking of doing a engine swap and my engine of choice is the new 2014 LF3 option 3.6liter V-6 rated @ 420 ponies oh yeah did I mention a compact twin turbo to boot for the Caddy or Chevy. From what I have research so far the only difference between the two is the harness and module. Price for both are the about the same since I will not be turning in a core. (that hurts). I am picking this set for a few reasons. I am sure I could go V-8 and from what I have seen, really tight in there. I also like the fact that GM built it into a nice tight package. I’m looking to update the engine/ drive train and update the interior to a more modern look, sorta of thinking what the car would look like if it were in production today. My questions are these since I know the engine would fit inside the space. 1) Should I keep the 5 speed that’s in the car now, other than having it rebuild 2) Will the engine mate up with the 5 speed big question 3) If I go with a more up to date transmission which is the best choice ( I really want to install it and forget it other than normal PM) All I really want to do is sorta drop it in and go but we all know that never really stop there Thanks Again Thank you to all those keeping the Fiero Legend alive and well: In my opinion I think the Fiero was ahead of it time, and if GM had as much faith in the car it would today be one of those pocket rocket that it was meant to be. I wish to thank those on Pennock’s Fiero Forum, most notably Bloozeberry and FieroGuru I have spend most of my reading those builds, I have great respect for someone who takes something good and make it something great. I have a 1988 Fiero GT that I am the 3rd owner the other two owners took really good care of the car and I have been in touch with the first owner sorta letting know who has the car and that is being taken care of. I have been thinking of doing a engine swap and my engine of choice is the new 2014 LF3 option 3.6liter V-6 rated @ 420 ponies oh yeah did I mention a compact twin turbo to boot for the Caddy or Chevy. From what I have research so far the only difference between the two is the harness and module. Price for both are the about the same since I will not be turning in a core. (that hurts). I am picking this set for a few reasons. I am sure I could go V-8 and from what I have seen, really tight in there. I also like the fact that GM built it into a nice tight package. I’m looking to update the engine/ drive train and update the interior to a more modern look, sorta of thinking what the car would look like if it were in production today. My questions are these since I know the engine would fit inside the space. 1) Should I keep the 5 speed that’s in the car now, other than having it rebuild 2) Will the engine mate up with the 5 speed big question 3) If I go with a more up to date transmission which is the best choice ( I really want to install it and forget it other than normal PM) All I really want to do is sorta drop it in and go but we all know that never really stop there Thanks Again
Originally posted by EdgarAcosta: 1) Should I keep the 5 speed that’s in the car now, other than having it rebuild 2) Will the engine mate up with the 5 speed big question 3) If I go with a more up to date transmission which is the best choice ( I really want to install it and forget it other than normal PM) All I really want to do is sorta drop it in and go but we all know that never really stop there
1)doesn't bolt up therefore needs and adapter plate or another transmission. 2) see above 3) there is a Saab F40 that bolts to it. (2007 Saab 9-3 Aero 2.8 turbo)
[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 09-07-2014).]
Glad to hear that you found some of my threads helpful.
The 3.6L LNF swap is going to be a significant challenge largely because it is very, very new and no one has done one before to identify what issues can be worked around and what ones can't.
The bellhousing pattern is the High Feature V6, so none of the stock Fiero transmission will attach to it. It would be best keeping the stock transmission that goes with the newer engine as the TCM will likely have to be retained anyway (VSS goes to it, then likely goes to the ECM via the CAN/BUS wires).
Tuning support for a 1 year old application that isn't a V8 Corvette or a Camaro is going to be limited at best. You need to know if you can turn off the PassKey security, traction control, and lots of other DTCs that you will likely see with a swapped setup.
The newer ECMs/TCMs/BCM's are becoming more linked and you very well might have to install the BCM as well to keep everything working (brake switch input is a big one).
Before I would start a swap using this engine, I would contact HP Tuners, EFI Live, and Tuner CAT to see what they have in development for tuning. Without good tuning support, the swap becomes increasing difficult and may not perform like you want it to. To get a level of understanding on what it takes to do a swap w/o any tuning support, check out Rickady88GT's build thread where he did his LS4 swap and swapped over most of the electrical components from a donor car. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000114.html
I would be very concerned about fitment in the Fiero engine bay, for that engine. Starting with the version for the XTS would be a better bet, but I'm still not sure it would fit in the Fiero. There's virtually no room to move accessories around, and the turbos and cats are mounted as close to the heads as possible.
The CTS is FR layout, so the exhuast and accessories on that version will interfere with the axles on the Fiero. The XTS is a transverse FWD version, so it might fit better, but I would still be concerned. The intake crossover tubes are pretty big, and the exhaust crossover goes under the engine, so there is still plenty of opportunity for interference problems.
I suspect your experience and likely your access to tools and whatnot is somewhat limited, that said, I think you should go with a more common swap. Many have started and failed to complete even often-done swaps such as an SBC or 3.8 much less a odd one. Apply the KISS rule. Good luck.
Hey guys, I ordered an lf3 last week from an XTS. I was originally going to go lhu ecotec but found a smoking deal on this bad boy. It will be fun but I'll get it to fit. According to gm the lf3 was designed to drop in place (size wise) of any high feature v6.
[This message has been edited by cs xtreme (edited 08-05-2017).]
Hey guys, I ordered an lf3 last week from an XTS. I was originally going to go lhu ecotec but found a smoking deal on this bad boy. It will be fun but I'll get it to fit. According to gm the lf3 was designed to drop in place (size wise) of any high feature v6.
I'll be using hp tuners. But I may end up with the bcm or more from the donor car
HP Tuners has its limitations, for example, it can not access all of the modules referenced in the code. I sold my Fiero and replaced it with an 08 Cadillac CTS SIDI. Love the car but it's complicated. HP offers some support for it but when you get into transplanting from these newer platforms you better have exactly what you need, or the vehicle everything is being transplanted from. Everything has to be just right or the computer will send the car deep into limp mode. My sunroof drain clogged and spilled a little water on a harness plug and the car would barely move although the engine sounded fine.
If you have little to no experience performing such swaps, this one is going to take a lot of time, and a lot of money. It wouldn't be a bad idea to try and acquire the GM Tech manuals for the application, as GM has changed so many things on this engine since its conception that they have limited interchangeability within the same engine displacement and vehicle, as a result, the older the used motor, the more expensive because although the 3.6L seems ubiquitous, interchange is extremely limited. The days of plug and play between cars is over.
Cadillac wants $200 dollars to program the backup PCM I have in case I have a problem with the one in the car. Computers are being used to take even the skilled mechanic back to the dealership by requiring updates and VIN matching for some new parts.
Now would be a good time to take a long hard look at what your intentions are and tally up the real cost of the swap. Whether you acquire the equipment to manage the computers, or pay someone else to do it, it's going to cost you dearly.
I suspect that you would want to buy a wrecked Caddy and scavenge all the stuff you need rather than go broke buying new at the dealership - as suggested, you will probably need to port all the computers from the Caddy into the Fiero.
Worst comes to worst I'll go stand alone like the new megasquirt. The donor engine is complete with all sensors, harness and pcm. I've already talked to a few companies that can set it up. Just not sure if they will use the stock computer or something like an e67 pcm. I'm no stranger to tuning, wiring or gm. I worked gm parts for about 5 years and still have connections. I've done fabrication with electrical before. Getting other modules from the doner car should not be an issue. Honestly if I ended up with the fobs and push button start I wouldn't be too upset. I suspect this engine will be popular for swaps in the future so more support for doing something like this will come..
Worst comes to worst I'll go stand alone like the new megasquirt. The donor engine is complete with all sensors, harness and pcm. I've already talked to a few companies that can set it up. Just not sure if they will use the stock computer or something like an e67 pcm. I'm no stranger to tuning, wiring or gm. I worked gm parts for about 5 years and still have connections. I've done fabrication with electrical before. Getting other modules from the doner car should not be an issue. Honestly if I ended up with the fobs and push button start I wouldn't be too upset. I suspect this engine will be popular for swaps in the future so more support for doing something like this will come..
Good on the experience and GM connections, as far as popularity goes, hot rodding and engine swaps have reached their peak as the industry is increasingly limited by EPA, emissions and technology becoming increasingly more complicated and expensive along with the "Blind eye" being turned further and further in the direction of electric cars. Except for the uniqueness of the swap, you can pretty much buy the turn key production power that you are pursuing for the price that this swap will run as the number of practical transplant vehicles old enough to fly under the above restrictions continues to diminish. We are now buying cheaply, production cars with the stock level performance that we were building them up for 20 yrs ago.
Unless you are talking carburated I can always build for less than I can buy... the complete engine with ecm and harness cost me 1700 shipped. The goal is to have the whole car done (less paint) for 10k or less. So far I don't see a problem hitting that goal.
Unless you are talking carburated I can always build for less than I can buy... the complete engine with ecm and harness cost me 1700 shipped. The goal is to have the whole car done (less paint) for 10k or less. So far I don't see a problem hitting that goal.
That's a steal for that platform and I get the enthusiasm as I've been there with the Fiero. I'm just referencing that their are various Vettes, Camaros, Firebirds and Ford products available used under $10k that are right at that power goal, or close enough. That's a darn good deal on that engine assembly though. I can barely find a stock used 3.6L for my CTS close enough to drive and pick up for less than $2k.
Get the pictures coming, I'd like to see closeups of the motor.
Given the year I'm assuming it's a low mileage engine. A Tech I spoke to at the dealership recently said they recommend timing chain replacement at 120k miles on the 3.6L. Some have suggested timing chain wear in the 3.6L is planned obsolescence and that the purpose is to make repair so expensive that many owners will invest in a new vehicle instead depending on the value of the car. I just replaced the timing components on the 3.6L in my CTS. My cost for parts, including the four camshaft actuators which are optional was about $500. The chevy dealer quoted me $2500, and an independent shop even more and that didn't include the actuators. That's for a properly facing engine. FWD will probably run closer to $3k. I did the job myself in about 20 hrs taking my time over three hot days.
This engine is hard on oil and unforgiving if you let the oil level get too low as some use oil and some sip it through the PCV system. They often fail shortly after a low oil level incident. Some have a noisy cold start whether brand new or high mileage apparently a combination of oil drain back issues resulting in actuator rattle until oil control is achieved (exhaust actuators are locked in full advance and slam back against an empty compartment at lock pin release). Some Aussies call it the "Rattle Tech" instead of Alloy Tech.
I've read about and heard examples of the same noise at cold startup in 2017 vehicles also. GM doesn't seem to mind selling them this way and apparently suggesting it's normal.
Just a heads up if you own a 3.6L of any version; LY7, LLT, LFX, LF3, etc. Use full synthetic motor oil and no matter what the oil life meter says, change the oil no later than 5k miles. If you believe 3k mile oil changes are a waste, this motor can make a fool out of you.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 08-25-2017).]
Yes 14k on this engine. It will only see synthetic. According to gm and others the lf3 has a better pcv system. It will be interesting to see. But I'll still probably add catch cans or air/oil seprrators. I'll be doing compression as soon as I get the starter. Some pieces will be appreciated so I'll get to see what the internals look like. Looks like the oil pan is different than the regular too.
