Ok, I am a total N00b when it comes to using a spray gun with a compressor to paint something. I am a pro with a rattle can though! The problem is rattle can paint never really hardens.
I just acquired a compressor that is rated at 6 CFM at 40 PSI, and 4.7 at 90 PSI. Not a huge compressor, but decent enough for the amount of small parts that I am wanting to paint I hope.
I have been looking all over Amazon and Harbor freight for guns, and reading TONS of the reviews on all sorts of paint guns. What I can not find is a good comparison to HVLP and regular spray guns. I would prefer a gun with a canister below the gun, and a quick release. The ability to use the canister liners is a huge bonus to me, and the fact that it just seems odd / awkward to me to have the paint above the gun.
I was looking at this one at Harbor Freight, as it is 2 miles from my house and easy to go get. (It says 1.5 CFM on the specs, but in the reviews someone corrects that and says it is 4.0 CFM)
Then there is this one which is a HVLP gun. Reading a bit, the HVLP guns do not have as much over spray, and are more of a tight pattern while painting. Will this give a good automotive finish though? All of the reviews are or people painting fences and kitchen cabinets....
I am looking for advice on what would best suit my needs. I am not going to be paint a full car, rather parts, such as suspension parts, radiator support and surrounding areas and parts, the GT inner window plastic surrounds, and other small parts.
I am looking for a professional looking finish when I am done, which I have been able to do in the past with rattle cans, but again, it is just too soft of paint to last.
Here is where I used a rattle can to paint the inside of the front trunk area and brake booster. It looks great in the picture, but now a year later it is all scratched up as the paint is just too soft.
The same goes for the air cleaner housing. It came out great, but just taking it on and off to work on the car a couple times it is all scratched up now:
I am going to purchase a quart of the Vista Blue, the same color that my car is painted, and then be able to paint trim parts and accent parts the same color of the car, with a high quality 2 part lacquer and activator, so it will be a much harder finish.
So, all that said and done, any suggestions on what type of gun, even specific ones that people can recommend? I am looking to keep it under $50, as I am just planning on a few parts here and there. I realize if I were doing a full car, then much better and more expensive paint guns would be required.
How big of part do you want to spray? If you are just spraying small parts, just buy a touch up gun like this one. They do give off quite a bit of overspray but they work great for small parts. http://www.harborfreight.co...spray-gun-66871.html
I have used this style for over 20 years on small parts and I love it.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 12-28-2014).]
Harbor freight. the gravity feed hvlp guns Use ALL the paint, you don't Waste whats left in the bottom. disposable cups for thode are REAL cheap, as cheap as liners. I'v painted Alot of cars and parts with their $14 (on sale) Guns, no complaints at all. That compressor is pretty small for painting anything but small parts.
Thanks for the info on the tips, good information there to write down.
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:
How big of part do you want to spray? If you are just spraying small parts, just buy a touch up gun like this one. They do give off quite a bit of overspray but they work great for small parts. http://www.harborfreight.co...spray-gun-66871.html I have used this style for over 20 years on small parts and I love it.
I will grab one of those this afternoon to play around with and test. They have it on sale for $13.99 and I have a 25% off coupon here. WIll come out to like $10 LOL! Good price just to play around with to get used to using.
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: Harbor freight. the gravity feed hvlp guns Use ALL the paint, you don't Waste whats left in the bottom. disposable cups for those are REAL cheap, as cheap as liners. I'v painted Alot of cars and parts with their $14 (on sale) Guns, no complaints at all. That compressor is pretty small for painting anything but small parts.
I didn't realize the cups were so cheap. If I go that route, will keep a few on hand.
As for the compressor I have, I thought it would be decent for painting, not a professional paint a semi, but decent...
The compressor I have will run both of these guns just fine based on their specs.
Also, I think I can extend the spray time a bit by setting the compressor at 125 PSI, and then setting the output regulator on the compressor at 50 PSI. It is a 25 gallon compressor, so my thinking is that I will get quite a bit of "spray time" by pressurizing the tank to the max. I certainly will never be holding down the trigger continuously, in fact more like 50% while sweeping, releasing, then coming back and spraying again ect. Again, I am new to this, so this is just the way I have reasoned out how I am thinking it will work in my head
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-28-2014).]
Also, you live in Fla like me. a "Inline DRIER" is a "Must", the humidity in the air ,heated up by the compressor heat, will put Moisture right into you Paint/air mix leaving little bubble/bumps when it dries. (sometimes taking a year to show up ! ) those little orange EGG type filters are OK for parts, anything else NEEDS a better drier. (Best I've ever used is the type that holds a roll of toilet paper)
It is interesting to see the same name/category (i.e. HVLP) get applied to two really different types of guns. The Harbor Freight and similar units are running 4-6 cfm at 40 psi whereas in the furniture world, their High Velocity Low Pressure guns run down at 4 psi.
I actually purchased the above system from Harbor Freight a couple years ago. It is the EXACT same one you linked to, just re-branded for each store. They had it on sale at Harbor Freight for $99, and I used one of their 25% off coupons to get it for $75. I bought it to paint my kitchen cabinet doors that I was re-doing. It works and covers well, but you do NOT get a smooth finish. It is more like a textured finish. The paint just does not get atomized enough, and thus comes out in micro droplets -vs- a mist. It would be fantastic for painting a fence, walls in a house ect, but it's not gonna work if you want a smooth finish.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-28-2014).]
Wow, indeed it does look like the same system. I wonder if I diluted the paint more if the gun would break up the droplets better ... might have to play around with it and see ...
Harbor freight. the gravity feed hvlp guns Use ALL the paint, you don't Waste whats left in the bottom. disposable cups for thode are REAL cheap, as cheap as liners. I'v painted Alot of cars and parts with their $14 (on sale) Guns, no complaints at all. That compressor is pretty small for painting anything but small parts.
I agree, they just had a decent gravity feed at HF for under $10 on sale. For your small parts, the compressor should be OK. I use their cheap guns all the time for like chassis and engine bays, and primer. I even used one to paint my garage walls with enamel house paint.
Thanks for all the info! I picked up the gravity feed gun tonight for something like $13 with a coupon. I also grabbed a water & oil dryer and put it inline right on the handle of the paint gun. I also bought a 6 pack of the replacement cups/caps. (I forgot to get the paint gun stand mentioned in the previous post)
Now, what I am having problems is the quick connect right to the compressor. When I plug in the hose it leaks a lot of air. I do mean a lot of air, as in half as much as the paint gun probably puts out with the trigger pulled. I used plumbers tape on all the quick connectors and fittings, and have no leaks from those. There is no way to use plumbers tape on the quick connectors, what can I possible do to fix that?
It is leaking from this connection when I plug either the hose in, or the gun directly (Just to test that it was not the hose's quick connector)
EDIT:
I found another quick connector in some parts I had. I installed it, and it does not leak. The one that the compressor came with was steel, and the new one I put on is brass.
On another note, I hooked the gun up, and set the regulator on the compressor side to 60 PSI which is middle of the road for this gun that operated from 50~70 PSI. I pulled the trigger and could tell it was dialed in for way too much air, more that would be used while painting for sure. I held the trigger for one minute, and the compressor dropped from 125 to only around 120 PSI. The compressor actually builds pressure faster than that. Also I will never be painting anything that I would hold the trigger down for one continuous minute. It will be more like pull trigger, sweep, release trigger and repeat. Probably about 50% on and 50% off with the trigger.
All that said, this compressor seems far more than adequate for keeping up with this gun that is rated at 6.0 CFM even though the compressor says it is only capable of 5.8 CFM. I am wondering of that is overrated a bit on purpose to give a little lee-way or something.
This is my first time getting a compressor and working everything out. Hopefully someone else can benefit from some of the posts in this thread.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-31-2014).]
You can just put a $5.00 thumbwheel on the gun at the air inlet to adjust your pressure...no need for a expensive regulator. You can also put a $2.00 disposable water trap on the gun inlet (usually an orange ball). I have a regulator/trap but I just crank it up to 150 pnds and leave it there and adjust it at the gun for what Im painting.
I also just noticed you say were going to use lacquer WITH ACTIVATOR ??? There is no such thing, only enamels and epoxy have activators. Lacquer only reduces with thinner and you spray it...there is no other additive. It is harder when it dries, but tends not to stick to plastic parts like your brake master cylinder cover very well. Plastic parts need something not so hard, as flexible. Use enamel or urathane, or best .... paint designed for plastics.
Are you painting with good ventilation? I built a small paint room under my carport roof and I`m using it to paint decklids, hoods etc and even though I`m setting up a positive air flow I decided after reading about the dangers of Urethane paint fumes I ordered one of these. It`s the most economical one I could find on the market. http://www.turbineproducts.com/servlet/Detail?no=1
You can just put a $5.00 thumbwheel on the gun at the air inlet to adjust your pressure...no need for a expensive regulator. You can also put a $2.00 disposable water trap on the gun inlet (usually an orange ball).
I second that, you definitely want these two items. I've also painted cars with H.F. guns, they've always worked great for me.
Harbor freight. the gravity feed hvlp guns Use ALL the paint, you don't Waste whats left in the bottom. disposable cups for thode are REAL cheap, as cheap as liners. I'v painted Alot of cars and parts with their $14 (on sale) Guns, no complaints at all. That compressor is pretty small for painting anything but small parts.
Same here. Never failed me, and for the price can't be beat. I use the disposable cups sometimes too. I'm sure the more expensive guns MIGHT be better but for the price difference they better put the paint on themselves too. Unless you have a paint booth with perfect clean conditions, then you will have to cut and buff whatever you paint anyway making the higher priced guns that supposedly lay it out perfectly a moot point.
Kevin
Edit to add, I have a regulator/separator near the compressor, and use one of the driers Roger is talking about at the gun. Works perfect. Keep the compressor tank emptied of moisture as you go too.
Kevin
[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 12-31-2014).]
I have a question for you paint guys. I have a heated room to spray in and the part will sit there until it cures but my 60gal compressor is under my carport, thus sucking in air at whatever temp it happens to be. Is that going to affect how the paint is being sprayed? I know that air is heated coming right out of the compressor pump but won`t it cool off a bit sitting in a 60gal tank? Thanks
I have a question for you paint guys. I have a heated room to spray in and the part will sit there until it cures but my 60gal compressor is under my carport, thus sucking in air at whatever temp it happens to be. Is that going to affect how the paint is being sprayed? I know that air is heated coming right out of the compressor pump but won`t it cool off a bit sitting in a 60gal tank? Thanks
I moved my compressor outside under a lean to a few years back and noticed no difference regardless of the outside temp. Now the air does have to travel 65 to 75 feet through the lines and hoses in my shop before it gets to the gun and not sure if that factors into the equation. I would think as long as the air is dry the temp won't matter considering on a hot day the air feels cool when coming out of the gun due to the expansion of the air. Good question though and do wonder if others have an experience to give some input with.
Ive used Lacquer since the 1960s and never heard of any kind of a catalyst for it. MAY be something different with lacquer for wood though. Imron was the first catalyzed paint I ever seen and it was just acrylic enamel with an added hardener in the late 60s. Then everyone came out with a catalyst to add to acrylic enamel.
The only problem I could see (and only with lacquer) with the compressor out in the cold and parts in the warm garage would be condensation going from diff temps and fogging up the paint. Its VERY HARD to get any enamel type paint to fogg up, called 'blushing'. Common with lacquer especially on humid or rainy days. Since most older cars were always lacquer, thats where the thing about 'you cant paint a car while its raining' started. With enamels, I prefer to paint all over jobs when there is a steady all day rain. Keeps the bugs and dust out.
I don't know much about using activators or catalizers ect myself, nothing really LOL.
I was talking to someone at a car show that painted cars. He said a trick was to use lacquer clear coat, and put a little extra catalizer in it. He said by doing that it made it hard as nails and would not chip easily when rocks were kicked up. He said the drawback was that it cut the time to spray the car in half, as it would harden fairly quickly after it was mixed up. I do not know if any of this is true or possible, just what I was told by someone.
I still stand on what I said...there no such thing in automotive paint. The guy didnt know what he was talking about, you cannot add an enamel hardener to lacquer paint...or he was talking about urethane clear which is catalyzed. Ive known people at car shows who talk about their clear coats that they as non pros just assume are lacquer. They just assume all clearcoats are lacquer for some reason. Cars now are RARELY done in lacquer. I still do some restoration work on cars that were originally lacquer and the owners want them done as original. Ive been a professional auto painter for 50 years. If you read your link, as I mentioned above, that is a wood specific lacquer for furniture/cabinet finishing in place of varnish...not for cars. For semi- flexible plastic parts, you DONT want a hard paint, you want a softer, flexible pain like urethane/ enamel.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-01-2015).]
The harbor freight HVLP gun you posted a link to is the same one that my dad and I have been using for the past 5 years. So far, we have painted a large variety of vehicles using it and have no complaints whatsoever. The HVLP gun puts less paint into the air, resulting in less overspray and less wasted paint. I would recommend this gun in a heartbeat.
As to your questions regarding paint, let me share my own experiences. I have had the most luck with lacquer basecoats mixed with a medium drying lacquer thinner. I find lacquer paint lays out the flattest, resulting in no orange peel and a smooth finish. However, as rogergarrison pointed out, lacquer paints are prone to blushing, and must be used in carefully controlled conditions. Try to use lacquer in a low-humidity conditions, at temperatures around 70 degrees. Additionally, I use a flex additive when painting flexible pieces like urethane or rubber bumpers to avoid any cracking should a minor impact occur.
For a clearcoat, I prefer to use a urethane clear due to the durability and flexibility. Acrylic urethanes are cheaper, but are slightly harder than "normal" urethane paint/clears. This stiffness makes them more pone to chipping, and makes them unsuitable for use on flexible parts (particularly out fiero bumpers) Normal urethane paint/clear is flexible and very resistant to chipping while still being very durable. Whenever I use a urethane clear, I lay an initial coat, then a nice wet final coat. I find that no matter how wet of a coat I use, the urethane "sucks down" as it dries, resulting in a heavy orange peel finish. The heavy final coat leaves me with plenty of material so that I can wet sand and buff the entire car once the clear cures.
------------------ "The Twins" '87 GT 3.4 pushrod daily driver '88 GT 3.4 DOHC swap in progress
Originally posted by Irrationable: The harbor freight HVLP gun you posted a link to is the same one that my dad and I have been using for the past 5 years. So far, we have painted a large variety of vehicles using it and have no complaints whatsoever. The HVLP gun puts less paint into the air, resulting in less overspray and less wasted paint. I would recommend this gun in a heartbeat.
Sounds good to me, glad I picked that one up then. I just got a paper today and the paint gun everyone seems to agree on will be on sale January 9th ~ 11th for $9.99.
(The website shows it currently at $16.99) You can always Google "20% off Harbor Freight Coupon" to get a discount code, making the paint gun $7.99 I always Google for the 20% off coupon on my phone right before going to the checkout, and have found a code every time, and it has worked 100% of the time as well.
quote
Originally posted by Irrationable: lacquer paints are prone to blushing, and must be used in carefully controlled conditions. Try to use lacquer in a low-humidity conditions, at temperatures around 70 degrees.
Ok, so I learned something new today, you can not use lacquer paint in Florida! Seriously, it has been in the mid 80's all week here, with 60%-70% humidity!
Looks like I will be using enamel's and urethane when I paint stuff. I am not painting any of body panels, so I will probably be using a hardener for durability of the paint on the parts.
The orange peel in enamels and urethanes is more due to the consistency when sprayed. You can get bad orange peel in lacquer too if its mixed too thick. Lacquer usually mixes between 1 to 2 parts thinner to 1 part paint. Most enamel types mix 1-2 parts reducer to 4 parts paint. Temp also is a big factor. The hotter it is, the faster it sets. Slower setting lets it flow out smoother. You can control that too with your reducer selection. In winter I use a fast setting reducer to avoid runs, and in summer I use slow one to allow it to flow out before setting. Using a slow reducer in the cold is a disaster waiting to happen, and fast in hot weather makes a finish just dull and rough to the touch.
My car is in the shop being painted now. I want to do a few parts to match such as the air filter canister, and possibly a backup plenum and valve cover that I have here. I found a pint of the paint available canister liners
On that page it states:
Please note that this single stage paint will need to be reduced using a quality urethane reducer. We carry all temperature ranges of urethane reducers as well as appropriate hardeners in our ebay store. The mix ratio for this product is 8 Parts Color to 2 parts Urethane reducer to 1 part urethane hardener. If you choose not to use Hardener (activator) the mix ratio will be 4 parts paint to 1 part reducer.
What type of reducer do I need? I looked all over Amazon, and am just not sure what is needed for enamel. Is it specifically "reducer" or are we talking lacquer thinner, mineral spirits here? The same goes for the hardener. Will this Valspar 4625 Enamel Hardener work? Are there different types?
I was able to get everything hooked up today. I hooked up a dryer coming right off of the compressor. Then I go to the air hose with a quick connect. On the end of the hose, I have another quick connect that goes into one of the "red ball" dryers, then the gun connects to that.
I fired up the compressor, and filled the gun with water. I played around with the settings, and was able to get a nice wide vertical fan spray. VERY fine mist, with a perfectly even coat on cardboard. I'm dieing to paint something now! LOL
You 'can' mix enamels with lacquer thinner, but not recommended. It dries duller. I do that a lot on older used cars and single stage paint just to get out of it cheap (what dealer wants) and dries a lot faster. Dont use 'mineral spirit' thinner in any automotive paint. It is different from auto thinner. Ive used it on parts in an emergency and because of 'oils' in it, it fisheyes on me. Its for use with woodworking paints that use the oil. Im not sure, but it might be linseed oil.
When I was at Maaco today, they said they will gladly give me a quart and the activator / hardener that I can mix at home as I need it.
In the mean time, thanks to all the help, suggestions, links, tips and ideas from everyone in this thread! I painted my first parts today, the engine vents for my Fiero. I used a black Valspar paint made for tractors, and sprayed it with this gun. I have read TONS of reviews, and all of them are good. It dries with a nice hard finish (Mix in hardener before using). Without the hardener, it will still be a nice hard paint, bun can take over a month to fully cure! I used the mixture of paint, hardener and thinner that is recommended on this page.
Anyhow, I think these came out AMAZING considering I have never used a paint gun before. I did a lot of spraying with colored water over the past week testing and becoming familiar with all of the settings on the gun, fan pattern, pressure and paint to air mixture.
I have two of those Harbor Freight guns, they work great. The *only* complaint I have about them is if you try to take them apart to clean them, you have to be very careful, as the fittings will tear up the aluminum body. I also had a piece break on my first one as I was taking it apart, which is why I now own a second. Otherwise, they do a nice job, and have all the right adjustments. I've painted everything from steel patio chairs and the A arms for my Fiero in enamel, to my 350 block with POR15, all with really nice results.
" I still stand on what I said...there no such thing in automotive paint. The guy didnt know what he was talking about, you cannot add an enamel hardener to lacquer paint...or he was talking about urethane clear which is catalyzed. Ive known people at car shows who talk about their clear coats that they as non pros just assume are lacquer. They just assume all clearcoats are lacquer for some reason. Cars now are RARELY done in lacquer. I still do some restoration work on cars that were originally lacquer and the owners want them done as original. Ive been a professional auto painter for 50 years. If you read your link, as I mentioned above, that is a wood specific lacquer for furniture/cabinet finishing in place of varnish...not for cars. For semi- flexible plastic parts, you DONT want a hard paint, you want a softer, flexible pain like urethane/ enamel"
I totally agree, nothing goes in Laquer except laquer Thinner.
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: I still stand on what I said...there no such thing in automotive paint.
I just went back and re-read your posts in this thread, and am not sure what you are referring to that you posted.....
As for the compressor paired with the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, they seem to work well together. I have the compressor set to 125 psi, and the output regulator set at 40 psi. I prepped and got quite a few parts ready for paint, so I had a better chance of using up all of the paint I had mixed. I painted both engine vents, the radiator lower support, and the hinges and cross-springs for the decklid. The compressor kicked on and off twice during painting all the parts, and never dropped below 120 psi from what I could see.
I still am so highly impressed with the quality and look of this paint! The small parts I painted are dry, but literally look like they are covered in a wet thick black liquid.
The problem is rattle can paint never really hardens.
