I have a quick question: Is there a difference in suspensions between 84 Fiero SE and 88 Fiero GT? And what about 86 Fiero GT? What kind of difference? I am just checking as my friend told me there is a difference and I am preparing myself and getting parts ready for restoring my Fiero.
Just to expand a bit on what dobey said, there are no interchangeable parts between the '84-'87 cars and the '88 cars except for the rear wheel bearing assemblies.
The '84-'87 cars also have a few differences between them, but all the parts are interchangeable among these years nonetheless. If you have a choice, don't use '84 front lower control arms since the later cars have better geometry and better turning circle.
Just to expand a bit on what dobey said, there are no interchangeable parts between the '84-'87 cars and the '88 cars except for the rear wheel bearing assemblies.
The '84-'87 cars also have a few differences between them, but all the parts are interchangeable among these years nonetheless. If you have a choice, don't use '84 front lower control arms since the later cars have better geometry and better turning circle.
I have a quick question: Is there a difference in suspensions between 84 Fiero SE and 88 Fiero GT? And what about 86 Fiero GT? What kind of difference? I am just checking as my friend told me there is a difference and I am preparing myself and getting parts ready for restoring my Fiero.
Thanks!
The over all differences of an 84-87 vs. an 88 isn't a HUGE difference, how ever the one I drove seemed to turn easier and didn't pull my arm out of socket when I went on awful roads, that tend to make my 86GT swerve into the crevices of the road.
My 86 Fiero seemed to have a better ride than the 88 Formula I drove but comparing 25+ year old car's are irrelevant. The 88's do handle better but if you swap in some Koni shocks and struts, they will come close.
Originally posted by zzzhuh: The over all differences of an 84-87 vs. an 88 isn't a HUGE difference,
The 88's do handle better but if you swap in some Koni shocks and struts, they will come close.
The 84-87 parts are not interchangeable with the 88s (generally, some items are of course).
Installing new Koni shocks/struts doesn't fix the problems in the 84-87 suspension. It will of course improve the ride if your car has crappy/bad shocks/struts, but it doesn't change the geometry or fix the bump steer.
I have an 85 GT and an 85 SE duke and neither one has any noticeable bump steer and the steering wheel does not jerk when going over potholes, crevices or road crowns etc. I do believe thought that this problem does crop up when oversize tires are fitted, this is common on other vehicles too. I had a Toyota 4Runner that a PO had installed oversized tires on and it was a real bear when going over road bumps, I hand to keep both hands on the wheel.
The 84-87 parts are not interchangeable with the 88s (generally, some items are of course).
Installing new Koni shocks/struts doesn't fix the problems in the 84-87 suspension. It will of course improve the ride if your car has crappy/bad shocks/struts, but it doesn't change the geometry or fix the bump steer.
Yea I didn't mean to sound like I was suggesting they are interchangeable.
The bump steer is minor on my 86 GT but it is noticeable if your going fast. However, I still don't believe that the 88 was a HUGE significant improvement. But then again, the fiero never really needed much to make it handle great.
The over all differences of an 84-87 vs. an 88 isn't a HUGE difference, how ever the one I drove seemed to turn easier and didn't pull my arm out of socket when I went on awful roads, that tend to make my 86GT swerve into the crevices of the road.
My 86 Fiero seemed to have a better ride than the 88 Formula I drove but comparing 25+ year old car's are irrelevant. The 88's do handle better but if you swap in some Koni shocks and struts, they will come close.
Having owned several pre-88 and 88 Fieros, I must strongly disagree. Stock for stock, the 88 is far superior in all respects. Comparing an 84 to 85-87, the 85-87 is much better than the 84. Comparing 84 to 88 is akin to comparing a biplane to a fighter jet.
Having owned several pre-88 and 88 Fieros, I must strongly disagree. Stock for stock, the 88 is far superior in all respects. Comparing an 84 to 85-87, the 85-87 is much better than the 84. Comparing 84 to 88 is akin to comparing a biplane to a fighter jet.
I have never driven an 84 so I wouldn't know.
I do know that after comparing an 85 GT and my 86 GT to an 88 Formula, it didn't seem to be a huge difference. Sure, it drove nicer but it wasn't a huge improvement like an mr2 1st gen compared to the 2nd.
Originally posted by zzzhuh: I have never driven an 84 so I wouldn't know.
I do know that after comparing an 85 GT and my 86 GT to an 88 Formula, it didn't seem to be a huge difference. Sure, it drove nicer but it wasn't a huge improvement like an mr2 1st gen compared to the 2nd.
Maybe the frreshness of the suspension on those cars made a difference. 25-30 year old cars after all, may not have the same quality of suspension as when they rode off the lot in the 80s.
I've had both an 86 GT and my current 87 GT sideways a few times, because of the bump steer. The Fiero suspension is OK for what it is, but don't try to exaggerate what it is. An 80s commuter car is still an 80s commuter car, no matter how much you really want it to be a sports car. The 88 suspension brought it much closer to the latter, but it's nowhere near the best thing on the road.
The Fiero suspension is OK for what it is, but don't try to exaggerate what it is. An 80s commuter car is still an 80s commuter car, no matter how much you really want it to be a sports car. The 88 suspension brought it much closer to the latter, but it's nowhere near the best thing on the road.
Don't recall exaggerating anything. I stated that the fiero handle's great.
I do recall the fiero becoming the pace car in 84' because it had 'beaten' an 84 corvette, the "sport car" for that time period. The fiero was sold as a commuter car, but obviously it was in fact a sports car that went to the GM offices with a tie on.
It might not be the "best thing on the road" but it certainly has the potential.
I think that the Fiero is a fun to drive street car but as is true of many other cars including Porsche 911's when driven at its limit it can snap over steer. I don't think its fair to compare a 1980's suspension to a 2014 suspension though. While the Fiero was a sports car in commuter car clothes, it compared favorably to the MR2 of the time, don't take my word for it watch the Motorweek comparison test.
Originally posted by zzzhuh: I do recall the fiero becoming the pace car in 84' because it had 'beaten' an 84 corvette, the "sport car" for that time period. The fiero was sold as a commuter car, but obviously it was in fact a sports car that went to the GM offices with a tie on.
The Fiero being the pace car in 84 didn't have anything to do with it "beating" a Corvette. A Corvette was a pace car in '82, and there was no '83 Corvette of course. The Fiero was the pace car, because it was a totally new American car, and Pontiac built a special version specifically for the race. It was purely marketing to promote the Fiero. Just like it was marketing in '93 to promote the new Camaro.
I didn't realize the Citation and Chevette were sports cars. The Fiero shares its suspension design with them, not a Corvette or F-body.
They, and the Fiero, can be made into a sports car with the right mods, sure. But factory equipment was pretty far from it (until 88).
I think that the Fiero is a fun to drive street car but as is true of many other cars including Porsche 911's when driven at its limit it can snap over steer. I don't think its fair to compare a 1980's suspension to a 2014 suspension though. While the Fiero was a sports car in commuter car clothes, it compared favorably to the MR2 of the time, don't take my word for it watch the Motorweek comparison test.
Well, Corvette-haters like to compare the single leaf spring in the rear of the Vette to a horse and buggy from the 1800s (because they don't understand its function in suspension design).
The Fiero suspension is OK, sure. But "great" is a bit of an overstatement. It's actually the flaws in the Fiero suspension that do make it more fun to drive. Everyone into drifting loves the 180sx/240sx, but a Fiero would make a great drift car with the right engine swap. It's very easy to get the rear end sideways. You wouldn't even need the e-brake.
Originally posted by masospaghetti: That's for sure. I let a friend drive my car (first mistake) and he spun the car out over the median, thankfully no oncoming traffic.
The back end really whips out when it lets go.
I actually had to use it to avoid an accident once. Was turning left, and some idiot nearly ran a red light and almost hit me. Narrowly avoided it by mashing the gas and forcing the back end out wider, with a little emergency footwork to bring it back in control and straighten it up.
And it's always fun to scare the crap out of your passenger by kicking it out around a low speed turn. Ah, good times. I really need to get my car back on the road (or find another GT to drive around).
The Fiero being the pace car in 84 didn't have anything to do with it "beating" a Corvette. A Corvette was a pace car in '82, and there was no '83 Corvette of course. The Fiero was the pace car, because it was a totally new American car, and Pontiac built a special version specifically for the race. It was purely marketing to promote the Fiero. Just like it was marketing in '93 to promote the new Camaro.
I didn't realize the Citation and Chevette were sports cars. The Fiero shares its suspension design with them, not a Corvette or F-body.
They, and the Fiero, can be made into a sports car with the right mods, sure. But factory equipment was pretty far from it (until 88).
Now you are mistaken. The Fiero although it does share parts, it used them in a different configuration. based on my experience with a 87gt and a 86se, both where sports cars and did not handle like a commuter car. They where not perfect but did have similarities to other sports cars I've driven such as the scion frs and is definitely better than any turd gen camaro I've driven.
Originally posted by jmbishop: Now you are mistaken. The Fiero although it does share parts, it used them in a different configuration. based on my experience with a 87gt and a 86se, both where sports cars and did not handle like a commuter car. They where not perfect but did have similarities to other sports cars I've driven such as the scion frs and is definitely better than any turd gen camaro I've driven.
I guess my Cruze Eco was a sports car too then. It has more power and better handling than a Fiero. It also has 4 doors, car seat anchor rings, ample trunk space, lots of air bags, anti-lock brakes, traction control, and I got up to 48 MPG on the highway with it.
The third gen Camaro didn't even have rack & pinion steering. It was still using a gear box. The Fiero steering would "feel" better, even without having power steering, at speed. And it does. I've driven an 87 IROC-Z before as well, and everything about the Fiero feels better than a third gen F-body.
The Fiero has a wider track, but the front suspension is almost exactly the same as the Chevette. The only difference aside from being a wider track, is the attachment points of the shock. For the rear, it's pretty much exactly the Citation cradle, mounted to the Fiero frame, with solid arms to hold the knuckles in position, rather than steering.
Doesn't change what I said, argue till your blue in the face. The Fiero is a sports car! Sure it's flawed and it shared parts with commuter models but they where in a different configuration and it still handled like a sports car.
Originally posted by jmbishop: Doesn't change what I said, argue till your blue in the face. The Fiero is a sports car! Sure it's flawed and it shared parts with commuter models but they where in a different configuration and it still handled like a sports car.
I'm not trying to change what you said. I don't really give a crap what you believe. I am simply stating facts for the benefit of the OP who asked about the differences in the suspension. The 84-87 suspension is Chevette/Citation suspension. The 88 is unique to the Fiero and is far better than the 84-87 suspension. The borrowed suspension from Chevette/Citation was not in a significantly different configuration in the Fiero as to alter geometry in a meaningful way.
Slightly amusing though, that you get so riled up when someone points out that the Fiero wasn't built as a sports car.
You've been on this forum long enough to recognize what riled up really is. Anyway, the OP wanted to know what was compatible, not that dobey thinks because the Fiero shared some parts that it handles like anything other than a sports car.
You've been on this forum long enough to recognize what riled up really is. Anyway, the OP wanted to know what was compatible, not that dobey thinks because the Fiero shared some parts that it handles like anything other than a sports car.
Actually, the OP wanted to know if there were any differences between 84-87 and 88 cars; which was answered in the first couple of posts. What wasn't asked, was whether some people think in terms of how good it handles and if that makes it a sports car or not.
But thanks for diverging the topic further and then trying to shift the blame back to someone else for trying to correct subjective commentary with factual posts about the origin and design of the Fiero suspension, and clarifying further the differences.
WS6 might have some minor change but is mainly BS marking on many GM cars. WS6 is famous to many in the public because Motor Trend etc hypes WS6 but other RPO codes can get stiffer sway bars etc. Example See my Cave, RPO List for spring lists.
I have 87 Sport comes w/ stiff spring and "upgrade" Gabriel premium gas shock and struts. If WS6 are stiffer yet... I don't want them. My teeth already rattles on rough roads.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by zzzhuh: The 88 suspension was actually designed by lotus specifically for the fiero.
However, you stated that it is "far better" than the previous versions. Who is over exaggerating now?
Drive an 86 GT fiero and drive an 88GT fiero. You'll notice a bit more composed car, but that is about it.
The 88 suspension was not designed by Lotus, despite whatever BS you have been told to that effect. It was designed by GM. If you want to look for Lotus involvement in domestic GM products, then the 89 Corvette ZR1 is where that development happened, resulting in the release of the production ZR1 in 1990.
I said it was far better. I didn't say it was perfect, or a sports car. I said it was closer to being a sports car.
And just because the 88 suspension is better, doesn't mean you will necessarily be able to tell the difference in the driver seat. A simple drive doesn't show you the engineering changes that were made. The suspension is far better, but the geometry is still almost exactly the same as previous years.
The 88 suspension was not designed by Lotus, despite whatever BS you have been told to that effect. It was designed by GM. If you want to look for Lotus involvement in domestic GM products, then the 89 Corvette ZR1 is where that development happened, resulting in the release of the production ZR1 in 1990.
I said it was far better. I didn't say it was perfect, or a sports car. I said it was closer to being a sports car.
And just because the 88 suspension is better, doesn't mean you will necessarily be able to tell the difference in the driver seat. A simple drive doesn't show you the engineering changes that were made. The suspension is far better, but the geometry is still almost exactly the same as previous years.
