I've had my alignment done by two different shops (a local shop, CMD Automotive, and NTB), both with computerized alignment racks. Afterward, to keep the car straight, the steering wheel is about 20 degrees off center. Both times, I've had the car taken back to the shop and complained. Both shops agreed to do the alignment again, and both times, the steering wheel has remained crooked.
I have a hard time believing that two different shops screwed this up two times each without there being something "special" about the car.
Anyone else had issues with this? The only time it was ever correctly aligned was by a small independent shop that did it by hand using non-computerized tools. 86 GT. Suspension is completely stock all the way around.
[This message has been edited by masospaghetti (edited 01-07-2015).]
I always tell them to center the steering wheel if is off center after the alignment. This is part of doing the job, but you know how things are nowadays.
As Johnt671 says, you need to remind them to straighten the steering wheel prior to doing the alignment and stress that you need it to end up straight. If not, then every time you get an alignment done you'll get an accumulation of error. The alignment corrects the suspension geometry back to the optimum setting, but the steering wheel position is arbitrary. 20 degrees of steering wheel is pretty small with respect wheel angle and unless they really take care to keep the steering wheel centered while completing the alignment you'll always get a small amount of creep. You should probably find another garage the next time you get the alignment done since many just don't care.
Seems like they just performed a "toe-n-go" alignment, which the pull it on the rack and let the steering center itself. That happened to me and that was the last alignment I paid for, because my fiero had the same issue. Ended up adding caster to the passenger side and no more pull anymore, set the toe and it was perfect.
Which direction does the steering wheel turn when straight and level?
[This message has been edited by sleevePAPA (edited 01-07-2015).]
A) Keep taking it back until it's right. They'll get the picture.
The tech will need to turn the steering to measure caster, which must be done before toe is set. Once caster is set, he *SHOULD* set the column lock to keep the wheel straight, then set the toe.
B) Find a shop staffed by people who know which end of a screw driver to use.
C) DIY... time consuming, but lots of info out there.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-07-2015).]
OE wheel then Should be marks on the wheel and shaft. Check to see if mark match up.
Shaft mark should be pointed up.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
If they" center the wheel",& turn OFF the Key, the wheel "Locks Centered", it' stays centered. they are NOT centering it before setting toe. I always do it myself, the shops can't be trusted to do anything correctly anymore.
Great thread thanks guys. Just purchased a Fiero, and know it needs a front end alignment - but the steering wheel is off so badly I was thinking I'd have to pull it and put it back on! (4 spoke wheel, and it actually obstructs reading the speedometer and is annoying as hell) Hopefully, getting the alignment done properly will take care of this issue.
I agree with keep bringing it back. This is a portion of the work and should be done. If bringing it back is not possible, just figure out which way the wheel needs to go, jack up the car, loosen the jam nuts on the tie rod ends and turn each side the same number of turns to get the steering wheel centered.
OE wheel then Should be marks on the wheel and shaft. Check to see if mark match up.
Shaft mark should be pointed up.
Yes, there's a mark on the tip of the shaft which should be visible with the horn button removed. This mark should be pointing toward the top of the wheel. It's pretty subtle.
However... I thought that the splines from the shaft to the wheel were keyed, so the wheel can't go on the shaft at the wrong angle.
Yes, there's a mark on the tip of the shaft which should be visible with the horn button removed. This mark should be pointing toward the top of the wheel. It's pretty subtle.
However... I thought that the splines from the shaft to the wheel were keyed, so the wheel can't go on the shaft at the wrong angle.
True, the nib for the horn only passes through the steering wheel hub when it's aligned correctly.
I've had my alignment done by two different shops (a local shop, CMD Automotive, and NTB), both with computerized alignment racks. Afterward, to keep the car straight, the steering wheel is about 20 degrees off center. Both times, I've had the car taken back to the shop and complained. Both shops agreed to do the alignment again, and both times, the steering wheel has remained crooked.
I have a hard time believing that two different shops screwed this up two times each without there being something "special" about the car.
Anyone else had issues with this? The only time it was ever correctly aligned was by a small independent shop that did it by hand using non-computerized tools. 86 GT. Suspension is completely stock all the way around.
Did they give you the print out? What is the cross-caster? (difference between left and right side caster)
Originally posted by KurtAKX: True, the nib for the horn only passes through the steering wheel hub when it's aligned correctly.
GM OE wheels should be true because lock plate and horn terminal but some aftermarket wheels could be off. Lock plate is "keyed" to shaft so only goes on right.
Just remove wheel trim or horn button for quick check.
Steering shafts and rack are all keyed too and only goes one way.
If the rack was taken apart. Could be they put back the pinon gear 1-2 teeth off. If true, The rack will look ok under car or to alignment machine and still have crocked steering wheel.
As for taking car back to shop... I've had to return 2 times before local tire store did a good job. That w/ everything is tight and good, including bushing replace a few years ago. But note that if you have a old/bad bushing anywhere then machines says the alignment is perfect but you can have problem driving. Example Old cradle bushings can get perfect alignment on a machine but can, often will, move whole rear of car. You often see this as pulling when stopping or you hit the gas. Manual trans car can "rear steer" the car just quickly change throttle setting when you have old bushings.
I just do my own. Perfect centered steering wheel and tracks straight when I take my hands off the wheel...every time.
I always love posts like this.... Not sure how that post helps anything at all..... but good for you I guess!
I purchased their lifetime alignment at Firestore, and had my initial alignment done there. When I left, the car felt like the back end was on casters, and those casters were on a sheet of ice! When I turned the wheel to the left going down the road, it felt like the back would go right. I had a friend follow me back to drop the car off, and he said it looked like the car was going down the road sideways.
They re-aligned it, and when I left, the same thing. I went back and I had their master technician drive it, and I hopped in the passenger seat. We got up to around 45 MPH and I asked him to quickly change lanes. You should have seen the look on his face, it was priceless. It was late in the afternoon at this point, and I left it there overnight with them to fix first thing in the morning. When I picked it up, all was well.
Just a bit of advice, make sure you test drive it well after the alignment. Do a few quick lane changes and such and ensure that it is handling correctly.
Theres been lots of posts about doing it yourself. No need to just repeat how people do it to start a new argument...but yet your still trying...
I do anything I need done myself except auto transmissions...if I have the time, which I now have plenty of since Obuma got elected. My time is free for my own work. My own may be off from official specs, but drives straight, wheel centered, brakes straight and gets excellent even tire wear...so who cares.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-11-2015).]
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Theres been lots of posts about doing it yourself. No need to just repeat how people do it to start a new argument...but yet your still trying...
Yup... Here and just about everywhere. Just google etc.
When I left, the car felt like the back end was on casters, and those casters were on a sheet of ice! When I turned the wheel to the left going down the road, it felt like the back would go right. I had a friend follow me back to drop the car off, and he said it looked like the car was going down the road sideways.
It's been over a decade at this point, but I had a lifetime alignment done at a Firestone store and the tech FORGOT TO TIGHTEN THE LEFT LOWER CAMBER BOLT. That made right turns fun as the tire went from -1.5 camber to +2.something in mid corner.
It's been over a decade at this point, but I had a lifetime alignment done at a Firestone store and the tech FORGOT TO TIGHTEN THE LEFT LOWER CAMBER BOLT. That made right turns fun as the tire went from -1.5 camber to +2.something in mid corner.
Isn't that just the variable camber feature of some model year Fieros?
Great thread thanks guys. Just purchased a Fiero, and know it needs a front end alignment - but the steering wheel is off so badly I was thinking I'd have to pull it and put it back on! (4 spoke wheel, and it actually obstructs reading the speedometer and is annoying as hell) Hopefully, getting the alignment done properly will take care of this issue.
Well, did it and OMG a nightmare so far, but funny in a scary way LOL Best price I found on Monroe shocks, struts and steering stabilizer were from JC Whitney - throw in 20% discount and free shipping and I pulled the trigger.
Was going to change myself after they arrived, but the weather in Buffalo wasn't cooperating. I have a kerosene torpedo in the garage, warmed it up enough, but will all the melted snow and water in the garage, decided I really didn't want to do the job right now, but hate having brand new parts not installed and wanted the job done, so I paid a local shop that figured their brand new alignment machine would be up to the task. (I like paying local guys, and am still looking for a "go to" mechanic.)
Sadly, when he called to say the job was done, he said something about the rear brakes acting squirrely and it was easy to believe, considering how Pepboys raped me a couple months ago. (I wanted to do all the brakes, wife surprised me for Christmas by having them do it. Paid too much for a crap job and overpriced parts. Oh well, gotta love her for the thought.) My steering wheel being so out of wack, I did tell them to insure the wheel was locked dead on before doing anything (after reading this thread) and they assured me they always do. So, I paid 2 hours of labor to change the parts, and for an alignment - got a cash discount so paid $200. Eh, at least I wasn't laying under the car with it on jackstands and me in a freezing puddle of water.
And drove only as far as the first place I could safely turn around and go back to his shop. It felt like the car was on casters! Or driving on a sheet of pure ice with bald tires. I can't explain it, except to say the car wanted to go straight ahead sideways. And then change position and maybe go in reverse. It was honestly hard to just go straight, and on a freshly plowed and salted road (no snow) I almost pissed myself. It was like all 4 wheels were trying to go somewhere else.
But oddly, I was laughing too as it was so bad. The guy wasn't lying. Something was off. But, on a positive note, the steering wheel is STRAIGHT!
I am a little peeved not to have my car back, as it's spending the night at his shop. His "top guy" will be in tomorrow and hopefully make it right. He said his new machine (maybe from Snap-On - he said he was going to call them) didn't have Fieros. The computer only went back to '88 and somehow left out Fieros all together. When he said they could do it, he believed the salesguy that the computer had all the specs. But mine was his first Fiero of course. He said he even tried to Google specs, and eventually the tech just eyeballed it with "the lasers" and thought he had it pretty close. I am sorry the tech forgot that I had told him the Pontiac Service Manual for '87s was on the front seat. Do kids do everything by computer these days? Dude.. there was a 3" thick book on the seat.... check it out....
The owner said they'd make it right, and gave me a ride home apologizing the whole way. Hard to argue with that and he was straight up about it. (He didn't think it felt right when he test drove it either, but as he wasn't familiar with these cars, figured I knew more than him and would let him know.... well, he wasn't wrong there...) I am printing up the spec sheet from The Ogre's Cave (Thanks Ogre!) and will drop that off to the shop on my way to work tomorrow. Will update once I get my car back.
Originally posted by JohnWPB: When I left, the car felt like the back end was on casters, and those casters were on a sheet of ice! When I turned the wheel to the left going down the road, it felt like the back would go right. I had a friend follow me back to drop the car off, and he said it looked like the car was going down the road sideways.
They re-aligned it, and when I left, the same thing. I went back and I had their master technician drive it, and I hopped in the passenger seat. We got up to around 45 MPH and I asked him to quickly change lanes. You should have seen the look on his face, it was priceless. It was late in the afternoon at this point, and I left it there overnight with them to fix first thing in the morning. When I picked it up, all was well.
Just a bit of advice, make sure you test drive it well after the alignment. Do a few quick lane changes and such and ensure that it is handling correctly.
Not sure why I didn't see this post after I made my first comment - but yeah, same experience. Scary but funny you know? I almost wish I had a dash cam to catch the expression on my face when I pulled out of the shop into rush hour traffic. Had I seen your post, maybe it wouldn't have saved me from going thru this, but I may have been prepared. I swear, same exact experience! Even the casters on ice comment. Wow.
If it drives straight just fine, chances are the alignment is OK, just didnt bother to set the steering wheel. Simple home solution is to thread one tie rod in and the other out the same amount of turns till the wheel is straight. Its often only maybe 1/2 of one turn to correct it. Doing equal, but opposite on each side wont affect the toe in.
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Simple home solution is to thread one tie rod in and the other out the same amount of turns till the wheel is straight. Its often only maybe 1/2 of one turn to correct it. Doing equal, but opposite on each side wont affect the toe in.
I didn't know that... Thanks I'll file that little nugget of information away for future reference.
when I do that, I just put a little white paint mark on the end so I can keep track of how much I move them. Remember too on some cars the threads are opposite on each side too. (one side in is clockwise, other side out is clockwise) Check the threads before starting.
My steering wheel is off center after I dropped the steering column. I also had the car on jack stands when I dropped the column but it was on the ground when I raised the column. The steering wheel was straight before I started all this. Any advice on how to remedy?
