I finished up my swap this weekend and I couldn't get the engine to start for me. I bought a new battery since mine was bad (sat out too many cold nights) and the first couple of times I turned the key on the engine wouldn't turn over. It just made a loud THUMP (my guess is the starter was engaging the engine but was met with too much resistance.) So I got back under the car to make sure all of my cables to the starter were good and snug. Then I thought I'd try to turn the engine some manually. I used a 30" strong arm on the crank pulley and gave it everything I had and the motor didn't hardly move (and what little movement I got I'm pretty sure was just the bolt tightening down.) After a few more turns of the key and some jumper cables I finally got it to start turning over. When it does turn over it sounds very sluggish and unlike any starter I've ever heard. I can smell fuel after a while (not leaking) so I'm pretty sure that's not an issue. When I was charging the battery with jumper cables I noticed the negative getting hot which I don't recall every happening, not sure if that means anything. I'm concerned the Crank position sensor might be shot because it's relatively close to where I had to weld a stud to the block (to hold the AC Bracket). But I'm just not convinced with how slowly it's turning over that that is even an issue yet.

side notes:

I got the starter from a junk yard
I didn't use a clutch alignment tool when installing the clutch (already had a good clutch from previous swap)
The battery was super cheap from Autozone
I turned the engine over manually before installed it (I can't remember if the spark plugs were in yet)
I had to replace the crank timing gear and I'm 99% sure I lined the timing marks up like you're supposed to
Only a couple of times I heard some popping from the exhaust like it was trying to start but it was misfiring (Checked the spark plugs and they were right)
Can you plug the ICM connector upside down?

I'll try to get a video of what the starter sounds like later tonight or tomorrow.

Also, when you hold the key turned over for a few seconds (2-3) the starter lets out some smoke

Can you turn the crank by hand with a breaker bar? are you sure the connector at the starter isn't grounding out? there is very little clearance there.

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86 Fiero GT: 3800sc/Manual, Cam/Mods.

The pressure plate hit the inside of the bellhousing. Now the starter is most likely damaged. Pull the spark plugs and make sure the engine rotates freely. If it doesn't you need to take it apart and figure out what is going on.

No you can't install the ICM connector, unless you force it really hard.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-02-2015).]

I agree with phonedawgz. I had an issue with the clutch hitting my bell housing even though I had the right clutch/pressure plate(at least it was packaged right). I had fierorog make me a custom even thinner flywheel and it works great now. Spark plugs out and try to spin it. May not have burned up the starter but if you saw smoke, my guess is it is roasted inside.

Wouldn't I hear the pressure plate rubbing the bellhousing? I've probably made the starter turn the engine over 20 times or so in my attempt to start it.

Starter is definitely bad now. Does anyone know if a big block starter will bolt up to the 3800? My dad offered me one of his extras for a replacement if it will fit.

Sorry if I kind of just skipped through but, make sure your injectors are not stuck open. I bought new high flow 80lb injectors, it had a hard time cranking then kind clunked, and stopped. Eventually I pulled the plugs and about a pint of fuel shot out! it was hydro locking the engine..

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1987 Fiero GTX 3800 Turbo... My Build, ST3 Cam, Lowered, Wheels, and pics enjoy!https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

I took the spark plugs out of 4 and 6 and it seemed to crank easier with the new starter and it shot some fuel out. I thought the new starter was doing the job so I put plugs 4 and 6 back in and now it's sluggish again. So my next step is to pull all of the plugs and and see how well it turns over.

I should note that I still have the Fiero fuel pump in the tank. I was going to let it run empty before I swapped the fuel pumps out just so there would be less weight when I went to reinstall it. Could this be my problem? I figured the Fiero pump could idle the 3800....

Did you do anything in the heads or mess with the timing gears?

Also maybe obvious, but is the battery fully charged and connections made with proper gauge wires?

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86 Fiero GT: 3800sc/Manual, Cam/Mods.

[This message has been edited by sco77 (edited 03-04-2015).]

I put new head gaskets on and had to replace the crank timing sprocket. I lined the timing marks up when I put the new sprocket on.

Battery is brand new and has been recharged a few times from all of the cranking I've done.

The engine turned over nearly effortlessly when it was out of the car with no spark plugs.

The timing will not affect how easy the crank turns over. Too much fuel sitting in the cylinders will, however. If it splashes out of the spark plug hole, there is wayy too much fuel in there.

Note - The 3800's cylinders are numbered differently than the 2.8.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-04-2015).]

Here's what it sounds like. I've got the spark plugs out and the fuel disconnected atm. I'm draining the gas since it's sat over a year.



The tach gets almost up to 500rpm while cranking

[This message has been edited by newcoolcat (edited 03-06-2015).]

If the engine turns over easily by using a ratchet or breaker bar, it's possible your starter is meshing too deeply into the ring gear. You're obviously pulling a lot of amps while trying to crank the engine over. Try painting a portion of the ring gear and then check to see how deep the starter gear is engaging.

If this is an automatic, your shifter linkage might be off, throwing your neautral safety switch off preventing it from starting. Did you remember to put fuel in the tank? At least 4 gallons. Your not getting spark or fuel.

So I pulled all of the spark plugs and still couldn't turn it over. And then I noticed something that wasn't there when I replaced the starter. I saw aluminum shavings in the bellhousing, and the flywheel was turned to the perfect spot for me to see one of the pressure plate tabs with a shiny edge. So now I'm going to pull the engine back out and put the Spec3+ clutch on it. I was trying to get away with the camaro clutch that was on my 3.4L. After I did a bit of searching over the weekend I read that the camaro (3.8L) clutch and the fiero clutch were practically one in the same and it wouldn't work. So maybe it worked out for the better. Luckily I hadn't added any coolant yet or bled my brake lines.

I'll update in a week or so (whenever the clutch shows up)

This is what I get for trying to be cheap....





Do I have other issues? The flywheel is .833" thick. Could I have measured from a wrong spot?

Edit:

The pressure plate has a number on it that referenced a camaro part number which is why I thought it might handle the power originally

[This message has been edited by newcoolcat (edited 03-10-2015).]

I hate getting to the bottom of the page in threads like this, looking for the link to the next page, and see what the problem was for future reference, and there isn't one, and no new posts in a year Can you say cliff-hanger?

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-13-2016).]

This looks very similar to the problem I had when I put my swap together, wish i would have posted back 10 months ago. My pressure plate was hitting on the inside of the Trans too and ended up getting a thinner flywheel, somewhere around .775 I think. On my old engine I measured from the Trans mating surface to the friction surface of the flywheel and got that number. Then I did the same on the 3800. These numbers should be very close since that tells you where the whole assembly sits in the trans. Mine was way off and after racking my brain trying to figure out why I finally decided my block must be different.

As far as I could tell the Trans mating surface must be ground down a bit more pushing the flywheel slightly more into the trans. After I got the different flywheel all is well and I put over 5000 miles on the car this last summer. My engine was from a 2003 buick park avenue ultra.

Have seen this problem when using McCleod clutches and a few other makes but never with SPEC and always purchase clutch for the tranny not the engine as the clutch matches the tranny then purchase one strong enough for the engine working with it. Example a SPEC stage 3+ for the 88 V6 Fiero 5 speed getrag

I think there are some 3800 that must be different. I have a spec 3+ in my car and I checked the numbers on it multiple times. I bought the clutch and pressure plate together brand new. Like I said it works great now but at the time I was having to solve a problem no one else seemingly had