I know this stuff has been talked about multiple times but still wanna ask. Im looking to get 400whp out of the supercharged 3800 but I am just not decided on my cam choice yet and hoping i can get some input from you guys. My engine what will be done .30 over stage 3 heads ported LIM gen V small pulley of course either intercooler or e-85 northstar headers i know im missing stuff but pretty much everything i can do performance wise is getting done. But im looking at the xpz cam, s3x cam Nic cam i just need what you guys think would give me the most power and the closet to 400whp. I am using the getrag 282 for my transmission. Thank you
I know it would be cheaper and easier to do but that's okay i'm going to run it with the supercharger for a year or two and then i plan on putting a holset hx40 on it and make 500whp.
With even the better flowing series V Eaton supercharger; 400HP crankshaft HP is about the upper limit of the power that can be produced from a 3800SC. If you want to make 400WHP, (and like superchargers) you will need to adapt a larger Eaton M112 or TVS model. In other words no matter what mods you make the 400 HP goal that you wish to reach cannot be reached without moving more air.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-18-2015).]
Thanks for the reply good to know well then if any of you had to choice a cam what would you recommend? Ill be drag racing once and a while and driving on the street
With even the better flowing series V Eaton supercharger; 400HP crankshaft HP is about the upper limit of the power that can be produced from a 3800SC. If you want to make 400WHP, (and like superchargers) you will need to adapt a larger Eaton M112 or TVS model.
Honestly that's a pretty generic statement... there's a lot of factors that can make you produce a lot more power... intercooler, tiny pulley, and e85 would probably get you above the 400hp at the crank mark... but I'm just speculating.
To get 400WHP with the 282 trans, you'll need to be making about 450-460 at the crank. Even then, it's a pretty arbitrary number that doesn't really mean anything about how the car performs. If you want to drag race, you'll want a cam that pushes the powerband up more into the high end, and that will let you run higher RPM. That will let you spend more time in the acceleration gears. You might need to launch at a higher RPM then as well, which will increase the possibility of breaking something. You'll also need other mods to be able to rev the engine to a broader range, such as valve springs, flow capacity, etc…
The 3800sc can make up to 500 hp. We had one here in London. It took some internal work but it supported 36 lbs of turbocharged boost on high octane.
It was truly a scary ride. I believe the tanny was the 65e
I don't see why a turbo on it won't do 400
You were running 36 PSI on an L67 and only made 500 HP? Several people on this forum have shown the 3800 SC bottom end can make quite a bit more than 500, when converted to turbo. JustinBart's car is making ~900.
The right turbo on a 3800 can easily make 400 to the wheels. The problem is that it's pretty hard to make 400 WHP using the m90 blower. 400 BHP (at the crank) is pretty doable though.
This past weekend I had the opportunity to drive a friend's ultra-expensive track prepared turbocharged 1999 BMW Z3 M Coupe at an autocross event. The engine in this car is supposed to be putting out 500 HP or so.
When the turbo kicks in... it's exhilarating. However...
The car and engine have been set up for high speed track use. The huge turbo on this engine doesn't do anything until 4000 RPM. It was frustrating as hell at autocross this past weekend as I'd be putting the pedal to the floor and screaming at the engine to do something! I'd be waiting up to two seconds for the power to arrive. Simply wasn't suitable for autocross.
I'm just mentioning this as it was my first experience driving a turbo-equipped car, and it was a little disappointing. Turbo size is obviously critical for a car used on the street and/or at autocross.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-18-2015).]
This past weekend I had the opportunity to drive a friend's ultra-expensive track prepared turbocharged 1999 BMW Z3 M Coupe at an autocross event. The engine in this car is supposed to be putting out 500 HP or so.
When the turbo kicks in... it's exhilarating. However...
The car and engine have been set up for high speed track use. The huge turbo on this engine doesn't do anything until 4000 RPM. It was frustrating as hell at autocross this past weekend as I'd be putting the pedal to the floor and screaming at the engine to do something! I'd be waiting up to two seconds for the power to arrive. Simply wasn't suitable for autocross.
I'm just mentioning this as it was my first experience driving a turbo-equipped car, and it was a little disappointing. Turbo size is obviously critical for a car used on the street and/or at autocross.
If it's a '99, that's probably the S52 engine... the S54 wasn't used until build dates of 7/00 and later. I was going to chastise you for using an 8000 RPM engine at 4000 RPM, but that doesn't apply to the S52 as it only turns about 6500-7000 RPM stock.
...but that doesn't apply to the S52 as it only turns about 6500-7000 RPM stock.
As it isn't my car (Saturday was the first time I'd even seen the car!), I don't know for sure what engine is still in there (as it's recently been all re-done)... but I do recall the red indication on the tach started at 6500 RPM.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-18-2015).]
I had experience with a turbo 3.1, 3.4, and now the supercharged 3800. The SC is much more drivable. Turbo cars, especially ones with great lag that are sized to spool up at higher RPMs, are just dangerous on the roads around here. We have lots of turns, snow, and slippery roads. A turbo can be like an on/off switch and easily spin out a car like the Fiero (with all that weight in the rear).
I like the idea of a turbo, but for drivability the SC is best. If you are drag racing though, who really cares.
I had experience with a turbo 3.1, 3.4, and now the supercharged 3800. The SC is much more drivable. Turbo cars, especially ones with great lag that are sized to spool up at higher RPMs, are just dangerous on the roads around here. We have lots of turns, snow, and slippery roads. A turbo can be like an on/off switch and easily spin out a car like the Fiero (with all that weight in the rear).
I like the idea of a turbo, but for drivability the SC is best. If you are drag racing though, who really cares.
It's all in how you build it. The 3800 SC was built with the blower from the start, and was built for boost. The 3.1/3.4 were not (unless you are talking about the turbo 3.1 in the GP). Just with any modification to an engine, you need to tune it properly for the application. Even swapping in the wrong cam in a N/A engine will make drivability suck, but might get you more power in the top end.
The wrong size turbo, wrong compressor wheel, and no or improperly configured boost control, can make for annoying experiences exactly as you described. Go drive a stock OEM turbocharged car, and you'll see there's no lag, and no big "oh the turbo is working now" moment, for most factory installations. They're very drivable. It's all in the tune.
It's all in how you build it. The 3800 SC was built with the blower from the start, and was built for boost. The 3.1/3.4 were not (unless you are talking about the turbo 3.1 in the GP). Just with any modification to an engine, you need to tune it properly for the application. Even swapping in the wrong cam in a N/A engine will make drivability suck, but might get you more power in the top end.
The wrong size turbo, wrong compressor wheel, and no or improperly configured boost control, can make for annoying experiences exactly as you described. Go drive a stock OEM turbocharged car, and you'll see there's no lag, and no big "oh the turbo is working now" moment, for most factory installations. They're very drivable. It's all in the tune.
OEM turbo cars are set up to spool at low rpm.. they are junk over 4500rpm.. for the most part.. what the poster was saying, is to get the higher rpm hp out of a turbo engine you have to give up spool up on the lower end.. this is something you can not bypass.. oem's try and so do trucks with bi-turbo's and racers with a shot of nos to get the turbo spooled up sooner.. the supercharger will give torque right here right now.. something a turbo engine can not do.. The oems' it's far far past the "tune" it's the gearing.. also.. and the "torque management" both things most can't afford to change..
Yeah, I've driven OEM turbo cars -- had a solstice and it was fun. But, like mentioned they are setup to spool at low RPM with no kick so as to make them safe.
My 3.1 and 3.4 were specially built, even had a Rotrex supercharger (centrifugal) at one time. Hence, my handle. Turbos are great for making high amounts of boost, and if you are after power they are the way to go. But, around here, with so many turns and road grades, that kick is dangerous and the rear end can get away from you. A front wheel drive turbo car is not a big deal, but the Fiero is a peculiar animal. You have to remember there is not too many people driving mid-engine machines out there. I wont even let friends drive my Fiero because it handles so different from ordinary every day cars. A high horsepower machine with such odd performance handling characteristics like the Fiero is not forgiving. No to mention my brakes suck!!!
Hey, ever seen a turbo motorcycle? I think Yamaha made one a while back. Crazy.
Turbos are great for making high amounts of boost, and if you are after power they are the way to go. But... that kick is dangerous and the rear end can get away from you.
That's exactly what I was thinking when I was driving the turbo BMW at autocross that I was describing earlier. I didn't want to put that expensive car through the fence!
My Triumph TR7 had a 15+ psi turbo (Toyota engine). It was dyno'd at 275hp. (Built by RaceTech Engineering in Calgary). The boost cut in around 3000rpm which made it great for driving normally, and still gave "holy crap" acceleration when you pushed the gas just a little bit harder. Absolutely no lag at all.
I don't think that you can just bolt a turbo on and go. My ls4 has an intercooled car tuning turbo kit on it and it's pretty much bone stock. LS7 lifters and valve springs with dod eliminated. If there is any turbo lag I don't notice it.
As it isn't my car (Saturday was the first time I'd even seen the car!), I don't know for sure what engine is still in there (as it's recently been all re-done)... but I do recall the red indication on the tach started at 6500 RPM.
In Corky Bell's book on turbocharging he talks about how many of the Porsches came with undersized turbos. Again for drivability and safety, but after a while if you are looking for power an upgrade can bring about great gains. The 3800SC was made to lug around a 3500lb car, not a little Fiero.
In Corky Bell's book on turbocharging he talks about how many of the Porsches came with undersized turbos. Again for drivability and safety, but after a while if you are looking for power an upgrade can bring about great gains. The 3800SC was made to lug around a 3500lb car, not a little Fiero.
I don't get why people say this about the 3800, N*, and other motors. The 2.5 and 2.8 both came in plenty of 3500lb cars and S-trucks. I guess they were made for that too, and not a little Fiero.
The turbo Porsches of today are also quite a bit different from the turbo Porsches of yesteryear. On modern engines with modern ECMs and electronic boost controllers, it's possible to have quite complex boost control, changing the boost curve for a wide range of variables, such as Ethanol content of fuel, atmospheric pressure, etc…
Yes, OEM installs are generally tuned for drivability and reliability, to avoid extraneous warranty claims and such, but you can do quite a bit with performance tuning on modern setups.
Well, my 3800SC is mated to the Getrag 5 speed. So it is not exactly a good relationship. Yes, it is torquey to drive. But, I never wanted the auto. I mean a sports car is not a sports car without a five speed (or six), and that is definitely an over forty perspective.
I agree. The technologies have greatly changed, but when I did my garage turbo project I could not afford all that. I was just happy it worked!!
