Indeed. A 100k driver that is about to need a head gasket isn't any worse than a 40k garage queen that's about to need every piece of rubber replaced.
1. Cosmetics - because none of the plastic bits are available anymore 2. Paint - because getting a car repainted is expensive and time consuming 3. Electrical - although rare, electrical problems can be a pain to repair and some bits are no longer available 4. Mechanical - because everything mechanical is available, replaceable, and even upgradable
That's how I shop old cars. (And I put "old" in there for your benefit, because everything I own is old. )
Yeah, that's true. However, people still want a car with lower miles for value.
Originally posted by Fiero Vice: Actually, my offers were $500 or more over Paul’s guidelines. And yet, the sellers wanted $1K or two more. I personally asked Paul himself to see if my offers were fair. He agreed. Bottom line: don’t accept seller's asking price if it’s not reasonable! Same with KBB, people often negotiate below book value.
I don't know what Paul's "guidelines" are, nor the condition of the Fieros you were looking at. I can tell you that many times, the "book value" is total either way. Cars are worth what they sell for. If Fieros keep being sold less than what sellers are asking for, they will never increase in value, no matter how rare they get. The only way Fieros will increase in value, is if people start paying for them. This is a fundamental problem in the Fiero world, because people always want to buy them cheap and sell them high, and that never works. Currently, very few Fieros are worth lots of money; and those are still worth much less than was invested in them.
Fieros are also not a common classic car. For people who want them and know what they are, they have much more value than for those who don't care about them at all. Then there are the few who bought one new in 1988 thinking they would be something special and are trying to sell their car way overpriced. Due to this, there is a great imbalance in pricing for Fieros, and sometimes you will get really lucky and find a particularly rare or interesting one for very cheap, or you'll often find not so interesting ones for more than they are "worth." If you want to be one of the lucky ones, you're going to need a great deal of patience. If you want one now, you're going to end up paying a little more. Complaining about it won't change that.
I don't know what Paul's "guidelines" are, nor the condition of the Fieros you were looking at. I can tell you that many times, the "book value" is total either way. Cars are worth what they sell for. If Fieros keep being sold less than what sellers are asking for, they will never increase in value, no matter how rare they get. The only way Fieros will increase in value, is if people start paying for them. This is a fundamental problem in the Fiero world, because people always want to buy them cheap and sell them high, and that never works. Currently, very few Fieros are worth lots of money; and those are still worth much less than was invested in them.
Fieros are also not a common classic car. For people who want them and know what they are, they have much more value than for those who don't care about them at all. Then there are the few who bought one new in 1988 thinking they would be something special and are trying to sell their car way overpriced. Due to this, there is a great imbalance in pricing for Fieros, and sometimes you will get really lucky and find a particularly rare or interesting one for very cheap, or you'll often find not so interesting ones for more than they are "worth." If you want to be one of the lucky ones, you're going to need a great deal of patience. If you want one now, you're going to end up paying a little more. Complaining about it won't change that.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, Dobey.
Actually, I'm not looking to get lucky on a great deal. I want what is fair for both buyer & seller. If seller claimed he/she invested in upgrades, that would be reasonable. But those sellers I met just grabbed figures from the air with nothing to back it up. Paul's guidelines is BS? Actually, it's based on data from prior years sales and created an average going price. Sometime, you can get less than average based on weak conditions or more if it was taken better care. In my cases, those cars were not taken better care & have problems.
From other forums on this website, most agree that Fiero will follow the path of the Chevrolet Corvair when it comes to weak resale value, but it’s all about fun driving for them. Auto collectors with money will never shell out any “big bucks” no matter what the Fiero is. It’s not even on the Barrett-Jackson’s list of collectible cars. So, if I wanted an investment car, I’d own a 57 Chevy, Plymouth Prowler, Chrysler Crossfire, early Corvette or Mustang Boss & Shelby. But that's not my goal. I want a Fiero for fun.
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 07-03-2015).]
Thanks for the link, Fierosound! Someone point it out to me few days ago and I'll consider it. I was hoping to find a Fiero with lower miles in 40 to 60K so I can enjoy it longer without having to worry about repairing more parts. But I'll keep it in mind as I search across the market. Thanks again!
Keep in mind they are a 27+ year old car and WILL need repairs regardless. Finding one in excellent condition is going to cost you.
1 word of advice, look at the wiring in the engine bay and what you can see under the dash, if it has been hacked into and is all over the place - run. I have seen too many car owned by people that think they can fix anything with duct tape and baling wire and usually make a mess out of the wiring. You don't want to have to deal with these problems.
Hey guys, guess what? Bought myself a new baby 1988 Fiero GT home last week, with 53K. Has everything except Defog option. Should I seek for this feature in the future & install it? It runs okay, but needs a lot of loving tender care. Shift stick is little stiff. A lot of small problems, but every one of them will be taken care of in due course.
Rear defrost is a complete waste, the engine does it faster with the heat rising out of the vents. Congrats on the purchase, pics are necessary.
Thanks, Hiwil88Formula. Rear defrost not needed even after I plan to install rear deck scoop? I don't plan to drive it in the winter or early morning. It will be garaged completely. I'll post a picture from the ad in a moment. I'll have more photos in the near future. Which photo website is most popular for Fiero forum? First time for me. Thanks.
Rear defrost is a complete waste, the engine does it faster with the heat rising out of the vents.
Obviously posted by someone who doesn't live in a cooler damper climate.
My '88 Formula was originally from Knoxville, Tennessee. It came equipped with A/C, but no rear defroster. Perhaps that made a lot of sense in Tennessee... but not here.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-21-2015).]
Originally posted by Fiero Vice: Shift stick is little stiff.)
I'm not sure what you mean about the stick being a little stiff, but I suspect it's probably just the normal shifter feel in the Fiero, and you might be used to newer cars with smoother shifting. 80s economy car shifter is not going to feel the same as a late model economy car shifter.
From what I gather, it's common for the select cable (side to side) used with the 5-spd Getrag tranny to get stiff due to its (piss-poor) design. The tranny end of the select cable points straight up and rain water eventually works it's way into it. My '88 Formula has the same issue. (It's really fun during a frigid spell when the water in the cable freezes solid!)
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-22-2015).]
I'm not sure what you mean about the stick being a little stiff, but I suspect it's probably just the normal shifter feel in the Fiero, and you might be used to newer cars with smoother shifting. 80s economy car shifter is not going to feel the same as a late model economy car shifter.
Actually, my '84 Fiero that I had in late 80's seem to work little better. I'm assuming it might be from not using much or maybe it needs some WD-40 to work smooth? Never used stick shift in 90’s or beyond, but I've owned 70's sports car that actually shift little better than the one I just got last week. Even the seller admitted it's little stiff...he had the cable replaced 2 years ago and only drove about 400 miles per year. From what I read about other owner that had to adjust his to make it work better. Not sure how I would do that. Also, noticed the box around shift stick is loose. It might be broken & will have to get it replaced.
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 07-22-2015).]
From what I gather, it's common for the select cable (side to side) used with the 5-spd Getrag tranny to get stiff due to its (piss-poor) design. It points straight up and rain water eventually works it's way into it. My '88 Formula has the same issue. (It's really fun during a frigid spell when the water in the cable freezes solid!)
Side to side seem to be okay. It's the front to back that seem to be little tough.
Thanks for the suggestion about PIP. I will check it out when I get a chance soon. Think I will create some new pictures instead of those lousy ones from the ads & I'll post it in here soon. Thanks.
My take is this you get the best car available you find and can afford. I ended up getting an 87, as at the time I saw no 88s. The minute I got mine, there were 88s all over the place. But that's fine. I got a good car in great condition and I will cherish what I have and be very happy with it. Just evaluate each car as you see it and you will know when you find a good one.
My take is this you get the best car available you find and can afford. I ended up getting an 87, as at the time I saw no 88s. The minute I got mine, there were 88s all over the place. But that's fine. I got a good car in great condition and I will cherish what I have and be very happy with it. Just evaluate each car as you see it and you will know when you find a good one.
Thanks for your comment, JJFieroFan. I agree! Sometime, we have to grab what is in front of us cuz the opportunity of finding one close to home is rare. This one I found was 9 hours from home. In fact, from your state of Indiana.
I owned both an 87 and an 88 GT at the same time so have a much better basis for comparison than anyone that didn't.
I'd pay a 50% premium for an 88 in a second - they are worth it.
Thanks for your comment, BillS. 50% premium extra? I felt I've paid $500 over what I felt is worth due to many issues, but the seller refused to negotiate any lower. But knowing how hard it is to find one close to home which is 9 hours away. So, I've decided to grab it while I have the chance.
Lucky you, you have both 87 & 88 GTs. Would you rather go with 88 GT over 87 GT if you had to pick?
Any commentary on mods to either one, the condition/quality of roads you drive, and how you drive?
I owned an 87 GT because I couldn't find any used 88s. I replaced sway bars and shocks. Then I found an 88 GT and bought it and did the exact same thing to it, so they overlapped in my ownership for awhile.
I've been an SCCA sort of racer since the 1970s so am in a good position to assess handling, as I build my own. The 88 was far, far better than the pre-88s to the point that I wouldn't bother buying an earlier car if I wanted to own another Fiero (I sold the 87 within a year after buying the 88 and owned the 88 for more than 20 years until I bought a Solstice - which also overlapped so I had a very good chance to compare those cars, too).
These cars are cheap and most of them are in a state of 'deferred maintenance' because previous owners haven't bothered to do what they should have done, or because whatever happens to need doing, didn't occur until you were the lucky owner.
Most need to have significant work and money put into them to make them reliable modern drivers, and the initial cost is the least of it. I sold my 88 GT for about what it cost me to build the engine back in the day. It was a 300 bhp turbo car and I still miss it once in awhile.
If you are interested, the heavier but more powerful Solstice GXP (260 bhp, 260 Tq, just under 3,000 lbs.) was about the same straight line performance as the Fiero, and was also a pretty similar car for handling, given equivalent rubber.
Once I had finished modifying the Solstice (I have a tendency to do this to my cars) the work I had done to the suspension improved it past the handling of the modified Fiero (although the latter still had such great weight distribution for acceleration that I missed that). Straight line is also much better (it now has ~375 bhp/370 Tq) Cars like mine are in the 12.9 in the 1/4 and because they are economical when not under boost, can cruise in the 30 mpg+ range.
My driving style can be aggressive and certainly is that on a winding road without other cars around - getting hard to drive that way anywhere near a city these days.
Originally posted by jaskispyder: (I am still trying to sell 2 passenger-side t-tops.... no one would buy the complete top unit including weatherstripping... so I had to part it out.
Do you still have a passenger side t-top glass ? Do you have the weatherstripping ?
)
either way. Cars are worth what they sell for. If Fieros keep being sold less than what sellers are asking for, they will never increase in value, no matter how rare they get. The only way Fieros will increase in value, is if people start paying for them. This is a fundamental problem in the Fiero world, because people always want to buy them cheap and sell them high, and that never works. Currently, very few Fieros are worth lots of money; and those are still worth much less than was invested in them.
