Hi all, I'm new to this site although I have been using a lot of information on here for awhile now and I would like to thank everyone for the help I've gotten.So I've got an 87 gt that I bought three years ago and did a 3.4 dohc swap with the 4t60e auto, that was fun for awhile but now I'm ready to go bigger☺. I got a heck of a deal and just picked up a 99 deville with 113000 on for $400. So now I'm starting the teardown of the cadi. I'm gonna be posting pictures on here as I progress through the build. My first question I wanted to ask is, other than the obvious stuff I'm pulling from the cadi like motor, trans, wiring, and computer, is there anything else I should take from it before it goes to scrap? Thanks again for any and all help.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

Would not scrap till you have swap up and running.. Looking forward to progress.

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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)
(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar/ 4t80e
86GT 3800 n/a---sold
Northstar Rebuild

If you have the space and capability, keep the whole car until the swap's running and driving. That way you'll always have any parts you didn't think about earlier.

You may even end up with some extra pieces of the Caddy in the Fiero. Rickady on this forum swapped the entire electrical and body computer systems from donors into his Fiero... twice. The first time was with a 3.5 shortstar, the second an LS4.

I'll have to see if I can hang on to it for awhile. What would be the benefits of using the whole body harness?

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

Then you can use all the Cadillac Ecm, keys, remote start, all the factory features like overheating shutdown, theft, gauges, no worry about aftermarket ignition and fuel... It's actually super smart. Having done it the other way, I would honestly say it's just as much work, and you have a WAY more reliable car.. Cheaper, because you don't need to buy fuel management or a flashed ls ecm.

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That does make sense, although I think I'm going to use a megasquirt ecm. I have one in my turbo 4 cyl ranger and I love it. Plus I have another one here already. My plan is to to hook the north star to the 4t60e that is already in the fiero, use its ecm to controller the trans, and use the megasquirt for the northstar. I just have to figure out how to make the torque converter work with the northstar flexplate.

GPIO module for the mega squirt might control the trans. It would be easier than using both.

I'll have to look into that. I didn't know you could do that with the MS. thanks for the tip!

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Well I got the motor out of the car and put it on the engine stand. Now its time to pull the bottom end apart and reseal it. Thanks for the gpio board idea custom 2m4, I'm gonna go that route for the tranny. I'm still trying to figure out how to get pictures to show up, I think I need to shrink them.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

we heres the northstar out of the caddi[img][img][URL=http://s483.photobucket.com/user/jdsisson598/m edia/northstar1_zpsuzuxb8ti.jpg.html][img][IMG]http://i483.photobu cket.com/albums/rr196/jdsisson598/northstar3_zps9qztt3z8.jpg[/IMG][/img]

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

I hope you are planning to do the head gaskets and upgrade the GM rear main seal to the new style, eh?

I did replace front and rear crank seals while it was apart. Im not planning on doing the head gaskets right now. It has good compression on all cylinders and it ran great in the caddy.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

I see you mentioned that you have 113K miles on the block. It would be wise to do your head gaskets now while you have the engine out and easily accessible. You will most likely end up with a coolant problem with in the next 20K or so.

If you fix it now, you will be completely reliable for a very long time. I did the heads on my 63K and 120K N* engines. Both needed it because the gaskets were deteriorated though they had no coolant issues. I'd bet you have the same problem.

[This message has been edited by IXSLR8 (edited 07-03-2015).]

What head gaskets did you put in your northstars? Did you have any threads strip out when you retorqued the heads? Thats kinda why I didnt want to mess around with them, im affraid they will strip

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

You *MUST* replace the rod bolts with new ones! *DO NOT* Re-use them. They are torque to yield.

You can not re-use the case half seals, oil manifold plate, oil pan seal or valve cover seals. Those have to be replaced if they are removed once the engine has run.

Did you pull the lower crank case off as well? The case half seals are unreliable. It's best to put the lower case half back on with anaerobic sealant in addition to new case half seals.

As mentioned, use a NEW oil manifold plate (this will be a bit over $100) and new oil pan and valve cover seals.

This is the ideal time to time-sert the block. *DO IT*. You engine is a ticking time bomb without this preventive maintenance. There are two kinds of Northstars: Those with inserts and those that will have head bolt problems.

I did use new bolts, and I did get a new oil manifold plate. Ive read alot on here about that. As for the seals I layed a heavy bead of permatex in the grooves for the seals. Ive got new seals for the valve covers. I guess I will just bite the bullet and do the head gaskets. Any recomendations on good head gaskets and insert kits, ive heard good and bad things about time-serts.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

http://www.northstarperformance.com/sgstuds.php

Unfortunately they are in Canada, but they do great things with these motors. Definitely a good idea to do the head studs now. The above company does the studs and the gaskets for 1,500$ . Can't really beat that deal.

Personally if I were you I would also swap intake cams, new springs etc from an l37. Free up the extra hp over the ld8

Just the intake cams? I thought it was all 4. I was thinking of doing the l37 cams and springs. That would be nice if it was only the intake cams. Ill probably just do the inserts myself, ive done them before for various things.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

Yeah just the intake cams are different. The springs are stronger as well to match. The l37 revs a bit higher with the extra duration, and made a little more hp. The l37 4t80e also had a bit more aggressive gears, making it just that much faster with less mpg obviously

Those studs are... um... misguided enthusiasm.

The only reason that conventional inserts *might* not work is that the block is so badly corroded that the aluminum the insert grabs is not virgin material. That is the *ONLY* reason inserts fail. I'm running standard time serts in my engine with zero problems.

I'm using ARP studs, but they're really not necessary. The stock head bolts are reusable, just put blue loctite on them before you torque them in the inserts.

Aright im happy to hear that. My block is s not corroded bad at all. Ill post some more pics tomorrow, I got the the old motor out and the cradle cleaned up. Now im fitting the northstar to the trans.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

Norm's Inserts: http://www.huhnsolutions.com/INFOPACKNS300LIS.pdf

You can use these inserts with stock GM Northstar Head bolts or you can use them with ARP studs. I've inserted these in my N*.

I like Cometic Head gaskets. I've used them on my N*: http://www.shopengineparts....el=4.6L+Northstar+V8

quote Originally posted by ironworker: I did use new bolts, and I did get a new oil manifold plate. Ive read alot on here about that. As for the seals I layed a heavy bead of permatex in the grooves for the seals. Ive got new seals for the valve covers. I guess I will just bite the bullet and do the head gaskets. Any recomendations on good head gaskets and insert kits, ive heard good and bad things about time-serts.

Good to hear!

Regarding the Permatex, was that a silicone RTV or anaerobic sealant? My experience is that the anaerobic sealant doesn't set well if used IN the seal groove. I use a new seal and smear thin coatings of anaerobic sealant on the lands on either side of the seal groove. That results in a leak free case half seal. I can also tell you from experience that a re-used oil manifold plate WILL leak!

Aright im happy to hear that. My block is s not corroded bad at all. Ill post some more pics tomorrow, I got the the old motor out and the cradle cleaned up. Now im fitting the northstar to the trans.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

so its been a little while since I last posted but I did a lot to the car. the cradle is all done, all of the mounts are all made, the flex plate has been modified for the three bolt torque converter, and I made a set of 180 degree headers . I also started to clean up the engine compartment. heres some pictures of what has been done so far.

Does anybody know if the stock fiero v6 fuel pump will work for the northstar? Ive tried searching and cant seem to find any info. I know it worked with the v6 tdc. Thanks.

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Whether you think you can, or you can't, your right (henry ford)

I have a '96 Corvette pump in mine that's been going strong for years.
I don't know if a new stocker would keep up with the Northstar or not... you can try it and watch your fuel pressure. It's only a little bit more difficult to drop the tank with the engine in than with it out.

My pump is about a year old now thats why I am wondering. Does the 96 vette pump drop right in or do you have to modify something?

quote Originally posted by Will: It's only a little bit more difficult to drop the tank with the engine in than with it out.

I found it really tough to drop the tank with the cradle out. There wasn't any good place that I could use to jack the car up. I don't find the engine gets in the way at all.

I dont have to worry about jacking the car up right now. If you look at some of my pictures, the back of the fiero is way up in the air right now. Although the angle it is at right now may make it more difficult to drop the tank once everything is disconnected.

just a small update. I started work on the wiring harness tonight. im using 2 DB25 connectors at the firewall so in the future whenever I need to pull the motor I can unplug the engine harness from the chassis harness. I also have 1 connector from the caddy that I think I am going to use to go to the c500 so I don't have to unbolt it later on. I ordered the gpio board and mshift application package from DIYAUTOTUNE today. thanks again custom2m4 for that idea, I like that I will be able to tune the trans and have paddle shifters. heres a pic of the harness s far.