I believe it is an E67. I'm just at the research stage at this point, but am looking at transplanting the LZ9/F40 together as a normally aspirated package. Has been done before, but with turbo(s) - a search will find it!
I believe it is an E67. I'm just at the research stage at this point, but am looking at transplanting the LZ9/F40 together as a normally aspirated package. Has been done before, but with turbo(s) - a search will find it!
Thanks! I've read that thread. The E37 is what (apparently) comes with the newer LZ9 engines and, coincidentally, what runs my 2010 LZE (Flex Fuel LZ4 3.5) FWIW, I have discovered that the LGD is a flex fuel version of the LZ9. It's MUCH more common. It does not have the two-stage upper intake but, curiously, is still rated at 240 HP. Good enough for me. It also uses (I believe) the E37.
Mine will use a Beretta Getrag (aka New Venture T550.) Similar enough to a Fiero Getrag that it uses the same brackets and mounts, but it has a sturdier diff and a hydraulic release bearing / integrated slave. It also has a VSS that matches up with the newer PCMs. For the trouble that would be required to install the F40, I'll be willing to do without the extra gear. But that's just me. Good luck with your project.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-30-2015).]
Are you planning on keeping the flex fuel feature of the LGD? I haven't seen as many around here, but then again, neither have I found any LZ9's from a G6 GTP with 6spd. I was looking for the most simple package to swap, in hopes of not having as many compatibility issues. I had a F40 from a previous project so that is what's driving that part of the swap.
[This message has been edited by alpine67 (edited 07-30-2015).]
I don't really have any use for Flex Fuel. If it's plug and play, I'll probably leave it as is. If it adds to the complexity, I'll remove it. I'm not even sure what the system uses to determine the "mix". Supposedly, both engines (Flex Fuel and gas only) use the same injectors, which surprises me.
According to my information, GM only offered the F40 6-speed manual with the 3.9L LZ9 for only 2 model years: 2006 and 2007.
-2006 Pontiac G6 LZ9 F40 based programming will only work on a 3-connector E67 ECM bearing SERV NO 12603530 or 19210735.
-2007 Pontiac G6 LZ9 F40 based programming will only work on a 2-connector E38 ECM bearing SERV NO 12597121 or 19210378.
No 3.5L was ever offered with a manual transmission from the factory, thus there is no factory manual transmission programming available for this kind of application.
I suppose a 2006 or 2007 LZ9 manual trans tune could be altered to work with a 3.5L.
-ryan
------------------ More is more. Less is not enough. Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
Ryan, have you worked with a LZ9/F40 ecm? Once I get into this it would be nice to know there's someone who has drilled into the bin for this application.
Ryan, have you worked with a LZ9/F40 ecm? Once I get into this it would be nice to know there's someone who has drilled into the bin for this application.
Yes, I've tuned both compatible E67 and E38 ECMs for LZ9/F40 swaps.
According to my information, GM only offered the F40 6-speed manual with the 3.9L LZ9 for only 2 model years: 2006 and 2007.
-2006 Pontiac G6 LZ9 F40 based programming will only work on a 3-connector E67 ECM bearing SERV NO 12603530 or 19210735.
-2007 Pontiac G6 LZ9 F40 based programming will only work on a 2-connector E38 ECM bearing SERV NO 12597121 or 19210378.
No 3.5L was ever offered with a manual transmission from the factory, thus there is no factory manual transmission programming available for this kind of application.
I suppose a 2006 or 2007 LZ9 manual trans tune could be altered to work with a 3.5L.
-ryan
Interesting. And thanks for the clarification.
According to Tunercat., my 2010 3.5 is equipped with an E37 ECM. I haven't actually looked at it to verify. Is there any way to tell from the data that I've read from the ECM? Or do I just need to check the ECM? (I'm not sure that I would even know how to tell, by looking at it.)
Obviously, the 3.5 was not available with an F40, or any manual trans for that matter. But I was thinking (possibly incorrectly?) they it may have shared a similar VDF with the 3.9, with just a different calibration. This is based upon the premise that the VDF for my engine shows the "check/uncheck" option for a manual trans. It also shows a "check/uncheck" option for the variable intake, both of which were only available on the 3.9. So I ASSumed that a tune it could be cobbled together to run a manual 3.9. I was leaning in that direction because I was hoping to retain the VVT, which the later 3.5 and 3.9 both have. (I care nothing about the variable intake, FWIW.) Will the E67 or E38 support that?
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-01-2015).]
Do you know what broadcast code I should be looking for when shopping for a E67 ECM for the 2006 LZ9/F40 combo I'm going to use? Or does it matter?
The only thing that matters is the SERV NO. Chances are you aren't going to find a stock ECM out of a G6 that had an LZ9 and an F40. You are much more likely to find one out of a 3.5L, 3.9 AT, or another application.
So if you get a compatible ECM that doesn't have the correct base programming on it (LZ9 / F40), you are going to need it reflashed with an LZ9/F40 OS. And to do that you may need an MDI or Tech 2 w/ CANdi + a subscription to TIS2WEB (which is what I use when needed). Tunercat OBD2 and HP Tuners can't change program modules 7 and 8 in GM CAN-bus ECMs (only the GM TIS software can). And program modules 7 and 8 sometimes differ with different engine types.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-02-2015).]
According to Tunercat., my 2010 3.5 is equipped with an E37 ECM. I haven't actually looked at it to verify. Is there any way to tell from the data that I've read from the ECM? Or do I just need to check the ECM? (I'm not sure that I would even know how to tell, by looking at it.)
Obviously, the 3.5 was not available with an F40, or any manual trans for that matter. But I was thinking (possibly incorrectly?) they it may have shared a similar VDF with the 3.9, with just a different calibration. This is based upon the premise that the VDF for my engine shows the "check/uncheck" option for a manual trans. It also shows a "check/uncheck" option for the variable intake, both of which were only available on the 3.9. So I ASSumed that a tune it could be cobbled together to run a manual 3.9. I was leaning in that direction because I was hoping to retain the VVT, which the later 3.5 and 3.9 both have. (I care nothing about the variable intake, FWIW.) Will the E67 or E38 support that?
I use the AC Delco Parts Catalog as well as car-part.com to obtain compatible ECM service numbers for a specific type of vehicle application.
Not all E37, E38, E67, etc. ECMs are created equal. For example, I've learned that GM used many different E38 ECMs over the years and you cannot interchange all of them. There are specific service numbers that will only accept certain OS's. For example, I had someone send me a 2008 E38 ECM that they tried putting 2009 model year programming onto. And it ended up bricking that ECM because the 2009 OS was incompatible with the 2008 ECM's hardware.
Tunercat VDFs are written to support certain OS part numbers. And the OS that was used in the LZ9/F40 application is probably different than a 3.5L OS, so the two may not even use the same VDF file. But even if they did use the same VDF file, there's no good way of seeing all the differences between an LZ9/F40 tune and a 3.5/AT tune because not every table and constant in the tune file is defined by Tunercat or anyone else's custom tuning software. (Anything not defined in the tuning software cannot be brought up on screen to view, compare, or edit).
That having been said, the E38 3.5L AT ECM tunes I've looked at do have an option switch for a manual transmission you can change. But I've never changed this to "manual transmission" and then tried it in a swap with a 3.5 and a manual trans to see if it would actually work as intended. I'm sure there's much more you are going to need to change in a 3.5L AT ECM tune than just selecting the "manual transmission" option to get it to work right, if it will work at all.
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: ... Tunercat VDFs are written to support certain OS part numbers. And the OS that was used in the LZ9/F40 application is probably different than a 3.5L OS, so the two may not even use the same VDF file. But even if they did use the same VDF file, there's no good way of seeing all the differences between an LZ9/F40 tune and a 3.5/AT tune because not every table and constant in the tune file is defined by Tunercat or anyone else's custom tuning software. (Anything not defined in the tuning software cannot be brought up on screen to view, compare, or edit).
I figured that was pretty much the case.
I guess the question is... (Essentially the same as alpine67's) Will either of these ECMs support the LZ9 or LGD (mentioning the LGD only because they are much more common the LZ9s, in my neck of the woods, and also don't use the two stage intake, which I don't care about anyway) - with a manual tranny, while retaining the VVT? Running stand-alone, of course. Can you do a base tune that can be tweaked with Tunercat, with available VDFs? (I don't mind paying for your expertise, but I still gotta be able to play. )
I guess the question is... (Essentially the same as alpine67's) Will either of these ECMs support the LZ9 or LGD (mentioning the LGD only because they are much more common the LZ9s, in my neck of the woods, and also don't use the two stage intake, which I don't care about anyway) - with a manual tranny, while retaining the VVT? Running stand-alone, of course. Can you do a base tune that can be tweaked with Tunercat, with available VDFs? (I don't mind paying for your expertise, but I still gotta be able to play. )
The E67 ECM bearing SERV NO 12603530 or 19210735 and the E38 ECM bearing SERV NO 12597121 or 19210378 will support an LZ9 using an F40 or any other manual trans as a stand-alone setup (ie: only this ECM is needed for the engine to run and operate normally with a manual transmission. No BCM should be required since custom tuning software code patches are available to disable VATS in the OS's used in these ECMs).
The LGD is not directly supported by any factory tune loaded into either of the above discussed ECMs because the LGD lacks the two stage intake tuning valve which is ECM controlled in the original LZ9 engines. Now that does not mean one of these ECMs can't be used with an LGD engine. You might be able to tune it so it runs fine without the 2-stage intake. I also can't say that either one of these ECMs will support the flex-fuel option since the original LZ9 engines they were used with were not flex-fuel compatible. You might be able to activate something in the programming to support flex-fuel, but I don't know for sure because I haven't tested it.
Yes, I should be able to supply you with a base tune that can be tweaked with your copy of either TunerCat OBD2 Tuner or HPTuners. I don't think TunerCat actually has it posted on his website that his software supports the 2006 Pontiac G6 3.9 F40 application (E67 ECM), but it does.
The E67 ECM bearing SERV NO 12603530 or 19210735 and the E38 ECM bearing SERV NO 12597121 or 19210378 will support an LZ9 using an F40 or any other manual trans as a stand-alone setup (ie: only this ECM is needed for the engine to run and operate normally with a manual transmission. No BCM should be required since custom tuning software code patches are available to disable VATS in the OS's used in these ECMs).
The LGD is not directly supported by any factory tune loaded into either of the above discussed ECMs because the LGD lacks the two stage intake tuning valve which is ECM controlled in the original LZ9 engines. Now that does not mean one of these ECMs can't be used with an LGD engine. You might be able to tune it so it runs fine without the 2-stage intake. I also can't say that either one of these ECMs will support the flex-fuel option since the original LZ9 engines they were used with were not flex-fuel compatible. You might be able to activate something in the programming to support flex-fuel, but I don't know for sure because I haven't tested it.
Yes, I should be able to supply you with a base tune that can be tweaked with your copy of either TunerCat OBD2 Tuner or HPTuners. I don't think TunerCat actually has it posted on his website that his software supports the 2006 Pontiac G6 3.9 F40 application (E67 ECM), but it does.
Okay. Cool. When I get ready to do this, I'll give you a shout. Not like it will be next week or anything. But that's one less thing I have to be concerned about. FWIW, I don't care anything about Flex Fuel or the two stage intake, as long as VVT still works. (Strangely, both engines are rated at 240 HP.) Thanks!
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