quote Originally posted by 2.5: The "Getrag rattle", can it be silenced??

Excellent thread on the issue. Unfortunate though that no solution was ever offered/found.

It still surprises me how suddenly my Getrag's rattle developed. I had driven the Formula for about a year before the incident mentioned below, and the tranny had never made that sound. Now of course the rattle is always present while idling with the clutch out.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Interestingly enough, mine didn't exhibit this problem until someone else at autocross drove my car for the first time and tried to launch (by mistake) in third gear a couple of times. From that point onward, my Formula has had the notorious Getrag rattle.

My hope (faint as it is) is that a tranny expert could deduce from my experience what might've happened... and maybe figure out how to resolve the issue with these transmissions.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-07-2020).]

Yeah the most informed minds seem to think its the input shaft bearings, but that replecements would do the same.

Mine did it when I bought it, almost 20k later still doing it the same, a fluid change was all I tried.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-11-2015).]

Hey, 2.5: Thanks for the link to the rattle thread. I'm no longer expecting the powertrain to come to a clanking grinding halt.

I think the rattle's more pronounced when things have warmed up - I'm going to pay more attention and try feathering the clutch a little when in neutral to see if there's any effect. I always let the clutch out when stopped, even though the rattle bugs me.

I don't get any noise from the '84 SE 2.5L 4 spd or the '86 2.5L 5 spd. Newer doesn't mean flawless.

If anyone comments, I'll patiently explain that Formulas have nuclear flappinators in the manual trannys. They usually rattle for a while before they self destruct. Only a few actually exploded, but it was enough for GM to drop the Fiero from production...

You could just tell them it's a racing transmission. And, you know, racing transmissions are noisy.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: And, you know, racing transmissions are noisy.

...and sexy. Don't forget that angle.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: You could just tell them it's a racing transmission. And, you know, racing transmissions are noisy.

I like that one

I built a more solid camera mount and attached it with the bottom two license plate screws... but I don't like how it's worked out. Apparently the bottom of the rear bumper actually moves around quite a bit. Anyway, here's a sample video. I originally shot it in 720P/60fps, but I'm going back to 1080P/30fps and staying there. Still breaking in the 1.6 roller-tip rockers and haven't floored the gas pedal yet.

Hey, what are all those black squiggly lines in the road?

Your camera has nice sound quality. What brand/model is it? Mine barely registers the engine noise, even though my engine is loud and the interior is gutted (i.e. noisy).

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Hey, what are all those black squiggly lines in the road?

Just within the last couple of weeks, the city's street crew went through the area and injected tar into all the cracks and crevices. I guess it keeps the water out and helps prevent the asphalt from breaking up due to freezing weather in the winter (not that we get much of that here). But yeah, the black squiggly lines are everywhere now!

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Your camera has nice sound quality. What brand/model is it? Mine barely registers the engine noise, even though my engine is loud and the interior is gutted (i.e. noisy).

It's a Sony Bloggie 3D... MHS-FS3. I love this thing. Shoots in either 2D or 3D, and records all audio in stereo.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-29-2022).]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic about the pavement. Here in Florida, the milder weather doesn't mess up the roads like it does up north. So you don't see many black squiggly lines down here.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: So you don't see many black squiggly lines down here.

The truth is... a couple weeks ago they weren't nearly so noticeable here either!

Interesting ... I have been looking at vintage 3D cameras and they all have a lens-to-lens spacing like your average person between their eyes. Wonder why Sony (and others) have chosen to put their lenses much closer together?

Question ... back in the day I always heard that breaking in new engine internal parts was a 500-1000 mile proposition, with no long drives at a constant speed, no flooring it, and lots of in town driving at different speeds. How far are you going to run the rockers b/4 you put the pedal to the metal?

[This message has been edited by Notorio (edited 08-13-2015).]

quote Originally posted by Notorio: Interesting ... I have been looking at vintage 3D cameras and they all have a lens-to-lens spacing like your average person between their eyes. Wonder why Sony (and others) have chosen to put their lenses much closer together?

I suspect the space between the lenses/sensors is "widened" electronically and/or the fact that it's a very wide angle field of view possibly makes the spacing between the lenses not as critical.

quote Originally posted by Patrick in This thread: And for something completely different, concentrate on this stereoscopic image below and see a true 3D image in between the left and right images. This is how I usually watch my 3D videos which have been uploaded to YouTube. It's easier to do this with smaller images. If these images are too big, use your browser's zoom function to reduce the image size, and work your way bigger as you get the knack. ... it's kind of neat when all of a sudden your vision locks in and you see a true 3D image using just your bare eyes and a regular monitor.

quote Originally posted by Notorio: Question ... back in the day I always heard that breaking in new engine internal parts was a 500-1000 mile proposition, with no long drives at a constant speed, no flooring it, and lots of in town driving at different speeds. How far are you going to run the rockers b/4 you put the pedal to the metal?

I don't know how far I will have driven, but the pedal is going to the metal tomorrow morning at autocross. One thing to keep in mind is that I didn't change the cam and lifters, and I suspect those are the most crucial components to break in correctly. I installed new push rods with used 1.6 rockers. I asked the vendor (and hope he followed through) for the rocker balls to be paired with their original mates. When I first started the engine, I had it run for 20 minutes at 2500-3000 RPM. I then changed the oil and filter. For the past week I haven't been revving the engine too high, and I've given it all kinds of deceleration/polishing cycles. The babying ends tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-14-2015).]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about rocker arm break-in. Flat tappet lifters, yes. But not rocker arms. You should be fine.

Have fun at the autocross!

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Have fun at the autocross!

After so much dry weather (which is unusual here), they're now calling for showers tomorrow. Dang it. Oh well, I might be able to post videos tomorrow night of some super spin-outs.

Well, I didn't blow it up...

Well done, nice sound!

quote Originally posted by Notorio: Well done, nice sound!

Thanks. I actually had a couple of other participants (who were doing track duty while I was running) come up to me and comment on the "tone" of the engine. They really liked it. It certainly sounds different than most newer cars (with DOHC engines, etc).

I was happy enough with the engine's performance, but with three really tight sweeps where I had to slow down considerably, I ended up in an RPM range coming out of those sweeps where there just wasn't a whole lot of power at the bottom of 2nd gear. Yet I probably wasn't going quite slow enough to bother downshifting into 1st... although perhaps I should've tried it at least once.

I'm now considering wiring the back of the car with a couple of microphones (protected from the wind and the elements) that I can plug into a digital camera (with an external stereo mic jack) mounted up front. I'll never have the fastest car at autocross, but I'll strive to produce the best sounding autocross videos.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-17-2015).]

What kind of tires are you running??

I have a set of 225/50/16 Kumho Ecsta XS tires on the Formula. There are no doubt better tires I could get now, and after three years of autocross use the rubber's probably getting a little harder, but they're still pretty good on dry pavement.

Interesting choice. I never really considered Summer tires before until this happened: my new Fiero came with some earlier Dunlop Direzza Z1s and I could tell the difference immediately first time I drove the car ... really sticks to the road.

Now that you've had a little time to drive your car on more than just the track, what is your verdict on the 1.6 rockers? Can you tell the difference in performance? I have some ported exhaust logs to put on but am waiting for when I can get the 1.6 rockers and new fuel injectors at the same time. (Dawg modification would also be a plus.)

quote Originally posted by Notorio: Now that you've had a little time to drive your car on more than just the track, what is your verdict on the 1.6 rockers? Can you tell the difference in performance? I have some ported exhaust logs to put on but am waiting for when I can get the 1.6 rockers and new fuel injectors at the same time. (Dawg modification would also be a plus.)

It would be so easy to say... Wow, what a difference!!! But I would be lying.

I don't have any regrets installing these 1.6 rockers, but to be honest at this point it hasn't been worthwhile performance-wise. Any slight improvement in the higher revs has been negated by perhaps a slightly less responsive bottom end.

However, my hope is that opening up the restriction in the Y-pipe combined with adding a secondary TB (as discussed HERE) will give the upper RPM range a further boost. So I'm still looking forward to the added performance potential.

And I think the exhaust tone is a little "meaner" with the slightly higher valve lift, so I'm okay with the 1.6 rocker swap.

Ah, well, better to post a Realistic Review than send us all off half-cocked. Thanks for posting that Intake Option link ... I forgot there were some other things to ponder in there, like switching to DIS. In any event, you've reminded me of the Good Old Days in my friend's 327-350 HP 'vette when those Quadrajet Secondaries would kick in ... you definitely got pinned to your seat

quote Originally posted by Notorio: In any event, you've reminded me of the Good Old Days in my friend's 327-350 HP 'vette when those Quadrajet Secondaries would kick in ... you definitely got pinned to your seat.

Yeah, my nicest car (that I had about 1977) was a 4-spd '67 ChevelleSS396. It wasn't my first big block Chevy, but it was my fastest. Lumpy cam, solid lifters, high-rise intake, tube headers... Oh that was a fun car! Definitely pinned anyone in the car to the back of their seat when I opened up the secondaries.

Wow! I had a 72 Chevelle and was constantly scheming to get a 68 SS. Can you post any pictures? If you only had that car today --- $40K? More?

quote Originally posted by Notorio: Wow! I had a 72 Chevelle and was constantly scheming to get a 68 SS.

I always preferred the lines of the '68 over the '67, even though the '67 was highly sought after.

quote Originally posted by Notorio: Can you post any pictures?

I have some faded photographs kicking around somewhere. If I can find them, I'll post them... but it'll be later rather than sooner.

quote Originally posted by Notorio: If you only had that car today --- $40K? More?

I bought it in 1975 for $2200 (in mint condition)... and doubled my money two years later. I'm sure today in the same condition it would be worth more than $40K. Oh well, easy come easy go.

Well, since I've already posted a couple of videos in this thread...

This was more of a video editing exercise than anything else (using a relatively new to me editing program, PowerDirector12). This video is a combination of the front and rear cameras used during an autocross last weekend. It's interesting to note how much "faster" the action appears to be with the wider angle lens on the rear facing camera.




I'm wondering if the couple of loud backfires heard during hard deceleration are the result the EGR system being temporarily disabled for autocross (by disconnecting and plugging the vacuum tube to the EGR valve). Perhaps at the next event I'll just leave it connected and see if the backfiring stops, as well as see if I notice any power drop/difference.

Since this was the last autocross of the season, and I've posted a couple of videos in this thread already, I'll post this last video here as well. Leaving the vacuum line connected to the EGR valve didn't make any difference with the backfiring during hard deceleration. The functional EGR didn't seem to hurt the engine's performance either, which it shouldn't anyway. Engine felt good.

However, I had no idea I was producing such a smoke show in almost every corner! I need to find out which brakes are locking up and see if I can do anything to lessen the issue.