I want to upgrade my 85's suspension from the abyssal performance of stock. The goal for this car to be a quick daily driver slowly transitioning to Autocross/Track use as I get the money for the parts.
I know there are many many kits out there but my question is does going straight to the upgrade kits also deliver the benefits offered by the improved geometry of the 88 suspension layout? That is to say do the upgrade kits for the 84-87 suspension change to, or improve upon the 88's geometry or would it be necessary to fit 88 suspension and then upgrade that new geometry? I'm assuming an upgraded suspension also acts as a bump-steer elimination kit? All of the ones I see just seem to be rear-suspension upgrades with tighter tie-rods and poly bushings/end-links.
Any suggestions for which upgrade kits are the best or best for value would also be greatly appreciated.
The best upgrade you can do would be to find a complete 88 rear cradle with the 88 rear brakes and use it to replace the 85 cradle. Then do a brake upgrade on the front, with the big brake booster and that would be give you the best bang for your buck.
Joe Sokol
------------------ 85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II 88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby) www.fieroking.com
First....this gives an example of the roads I drive for comparison...
How far you want to go depends on how much money you want to spend....
Stage 1: Freshen up the current suspension. New joints (including inner and outer tie rods), new bearings, new bushings, new shocks/struts, new swaybar endlinks...everything. Don't forget the cradle bushings...those are far more important than many realize, and can be changed to poly or aluminum. Some of my preferences for this stage are Rodney's joints, KYB shocks/struts, poly endlinks, rubber a-arm bushings...others may have other preferences, and I won't claim mine are better than theirs. This is where my car is at right now...and it made a world of difference.
Stage 1.5: Springs. If you are going to do springs, might as well do them with Stage 1....so much easier than going back and doing them later. This is also where you should consider the ride height you want...and possibly consider Rodney's lowering ball joints if that is your choice. Eibachs are a nice choice...but there are other options. This is where you should consider rear coil-overs as well.. I chose to stick with stock WS6 springs on mine because I didn't want to lower it, and I drive on real roads so I didn't see the need to stiffen it further.
Stage 2: Sway bars. Stock doesn't have a rear swaybar...but it could use one. Generally, when you add one, you want to upgrade the front swaybar as well. There are several options...but the most common are Fiero Store, Adco...or if you want to go all out you could get the HPP. Remember that spring rate and sway bars will strongly affect the balance of the car, and is generally used to tune over/under steer (if you want the front to grip more, you stiffen the rear...and vice versa).
Stage 3: Bump steer correction. Options here include an 88 cradle and rear suspension....or the Fiero Store/Arraut Motorsports kit...or other custom options. Of course, if you are going to the 88 rear suspension, you are forced to use coil-overs, and the sway bar options change.
Stage 4: Go crazy with the front suspension. Limited choices here. Either we are going totally custom...or we can go to just front coil-overs (I think Arraut Motorsports may be the only option still out there for coilovers)...or we can go all out with the Arraut Motorsports Slalom front suspension.
If money were no object, my car would have the 88 rear suspension, Arraut Motorsports slalom front suspension, QA1 coilovers front and back, and HPP sway bars front and back. But...money IS an object, so I am currently sitting at Stage 1.
Also remember that beyond Stage 1 or 2, tires will make a bigger difference than suspension changes.
It seems the general consensus is that as far as the rear suspension is concerned my best bet is to replace the inferior 84-87 rear cradle/suspension elements with the vastly improved 88 ones. I don't know if I'll spend the money on the current set-up. While doing that I should replace all outer bushing with poly ones and the inner cradle bushings with aluminum. Add a rear sway bar, and maybe some stiffer coil-overs instead of the stock ones. Bring the bigger vented brakes from the 88 along and it's corresponding brake booster.
My rear suspension is my biggest concern right now since the car at around 60 or higher on the highway has the most severe bump steer on any car I've ever driven, I've gathered that this problem can be helped with the rear sway bar and an alignment wouldn't kill me. This is probably all I'll do to the car til I can track down an 88 to rob the cradle from.
When it comes to front suspension you guys say skip the 88 suspension and go to a higher end custom tubular set-up. Can I fit the larger 88 brakes up front as well?
I have two Fieros, an 88 Formula with a V-8 swap and an 86 SE with upgraded suspension.
The Formula handles very well with the added power on stock suspension.
The 86 handles better than the Formula due to the upgrades. It will be getting an 88 rear cradle with a V-8 in the near future.
The 86 was modified with the Fiero Store handling package #2... Poly bushings Front and rear sway bars w/ poly links Eibach lowering springs All new ball joints, inner and outer tie rods and rear links KYB shocks and struts GT steering rack for the faster ratio GrandAm brakes all around
No ride quality, but Michigan roads are horrible. When I get on good roads, the ride quality is stiff, but not overly harsh. No hint of bumpsteer due to the limited suspension travel. Very balanced with slight oversteer when pushing it hard.
The pre-88 suspension is quite capable of performing after modification. With 205/60/15 front - 215/60/15 rear tires on lace wheels, the car runs midpack with prepped corvettes on the autocross.
Originally posted by Medchin: My rear suspension is my biggest concern right now since the car at around 60 or higher on the highway has the most severe bump steer on any car I've ever driven, I've gathered that this problem can be helped with the rear sway bar and an alignment wouldn't kill me.
If you are noticing "bumpsteer" on the highway, then it is not true bumpsteer, it is worn out components.
I haven't driven an 88 model, but I don't really feel the bumpsteer that much anymore with new bushings all around, including poly cradle bushings. The two main compliants so far about the 84-87 design is steering kickback / scrub radius, and excessive brake dive. Even compared to pseudo-contemporary vehicles like a 93 Accord or my 96 Explorer, the brake dive is much more severe.
I had my 86 on the track in May. After the first few sessions I felt pretty comfortable exploring the handling limits and it felt fairly predictable. However, I imagine its still a relatively difficult car to drive. No ABS, no stability control, very rear heavy, nothing is going to save you if you let the tail come around in a corner. That being said, it's also rewarding to drive correctly and actually pretty quick.
[This message has been edited by masospaghetti (edited 08-28-2015).]
Like CowsPatoot said, what you're perceiving as bumpsteer is actually slop in the suspension (and probably the cradle as well) from worn-out parts.
I'm sure you'll get varying opinions on what upgrades to make, and in what sequence. That said, here's my own take on that. I personally would do the following:
1) Cradle Bushings - Go with aluminum. There's no sense taking half-measures here. 2) Control Arm Bushings - Whether you go with rubber or urethane, it'll be an improvement over the worn-out stock bushings. 3) Dampers (shocks and struts) - You don't need to go hog-wild here. A set of Monroes or KYBs should do fine. 4) Sway Bars - Install a rear sway bar, and upgrade the front one. This is one area where you don't want to cheap out, because it has such a big impact on handling. 5) Tires - All the stuff above will do no good if you have trash tires. So get some decent tires, if you haven't already.
With all that said, we can't ignore the '88 cradle swap. I performed the cradle swap on my '87 Fiero, and IMO it's one of the best things I've done for the car. The difference in handling is noticeable, even considering that my '87 rear suspension was pretty beefed-up (urethane A-arm bushings, aluminum cradle bushings, KYB struts, Eibach springs, and Addco rear sway bar). So if you have about a grand to drop on the '88 cradle swap, do it. You won't regret it.
I have an 87 GT that has TFS Front/Rear Swaybar upgrade with Rodney Dickman's front no-lash end links as well as his 1" lowering ball joints and upper ball joints as well as the QA1 Coilover's in the rear. I live down the street from you in Fayettnam if you want to meet up and drive mine to get an idea of what difference those mods make. I wish I had seen this sooner as I was up your way earlier today meeting up with the Triangle 2 Seater group. PM me if you want to meet up...
Dang man I wish you had seen it! I'd love a chance to drive a Fiero with proper suspension so I knew what I was missing.
I've found a few 88's cheap nearby to try to buy for the cradle but the reality is I'm a college student, I've got neither the space or the money to buy another car, even if it is to just strip for parts. :'(
I think for now I'll just buy a good front sway bar, move the front one to the back and drive it like that til I make the cash to buy a junky 88'.
[This message has been edited by Medchin (edited 08-29-2015).]
