Hell there..I've been lurking for some time and now have decided to change out the alt on my 86Gt. In searching I see that it MAY be possible to get it form the wheel well, but most seem to recommend lowering the cradle. I've only had this car a few months and have never as yet tried to loosen the rear cradle bolts. I DO need to rebuild the alt though so I will soon tackle this job.
My question is if I DO attempt to lower the cradle will I disturb the fuel/water lines? In all my research no one mentions anything about this.
Secondly can this alt be changed out w/o lowering the cradle, and w/o removing the exhaust manifold? I maintain what i drive and DO have the factory service manual along with all the tools necessary to do the r&r.
I will most likely change out the cs alt for the CI version. A local shop here can also rebuild mine which is the original alt i believe with approx 94 k on the clock.
It's best to know year and options. Auto or manual?
When I changed out mine (88GT V-6 auto) I had to jack the rear end up and take off the wheel and splash guards to get it out through the passenger wheel well. It may take some origami moves to get it down and out but worked for me. I've heard that with a manual transmission the alternator may drop down past the passenger side drive shaft.
Good Luck.
[This message has been edited by KMFDMFAN (edited 01-07-2016).]
I had a helluva time swapping out the alternator on my '86 GT with an automatic. I actually split the alternator case to get it out, and reversed the procedure to put in the replacement.
Try disconnecting the passenger side tie-rod. From what I've heard, that might allow the alternator to drop out the bottom and/or into the wheel well.
Should be no need to lower the cradle and/or remove the exhaust manifold.
quote
Originally posted by KMFDMFAN:
It's best to know year and options. Auto or manual?
It's mentioned in the topic heading.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-07-2016).]
I forget that the 88 has different suspension setup than previous years. This may or may-not allow more room to maneuver.
There have been people who've pooh-poohed how difficult it is to swap the alternator out of an automatic equipped V6 Fiero, but I suspect they must've been working on 88's. Not only is the suspension different which might allow more room to maneuver, but the actual alternator is smaller as well. (CS vs SI.)
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-07-2016).]
I had a helluva time swapping out the alternator on my '86 GT with an automatic. I actually split the alternator case to get it out, and reversed the procedure to put in the replacement.
Try disconnecting the passenger side tie-rod. From what I've heard, that might allow the alternator to drop out the bottom and/or into the wheel well.
Should be no need to lower the cradle and/or remove the exhaust manifold.
It's mentioned in the topic heading.
Thanks for your responses all. It's encouraging to hear that with some creative moves I May be able to get that done w/o lowering the cradle. I'll proceed with the wheel-well approach. Since I MAY replace it with a CI alt this may go back together somewhat easier.
thanks again for the comments..I've enjoyed the reading of this site for a few months and will standby for more good pointers..
You might have a bit of trouble finding one of those.
My bad, I meant to say SI. Actually the repair shop I use here for my stuff says he can make me an SI if i want to upgrade so I'm sure that's what I'll do. I actually tried to talk him into doing the swap but he said "no, but I'll fix it it YOU bring it in". He said something about doing that job once before ....and started muttering...so I'll take it off and let him fix it.
My bad, I meant to say SI. Actually the repair shop I use here for my stuff says he can make me an SI if i want to upgrade so I'm sure that's what I'll do.
Keep in mind that it's the CS version which is the newer one.
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Originally posted by justaw:
I actually tried to talk him into doing the swap but he said "no, but I'll fix it it YOU bring it in". He said something about doing that job once before ....and started muttering...so I'll take it off and let him fix it.
He's no dummy. Rebuilding the alternator is a whole lot easier than the removal and re-installation of it. All they usually need is a diode trio which costs next to nothing.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-07-2016).]
He's no dummy. Rebuilding the alternator is a whole lot easier than the removal and re-installation of it. All they usually need is a diode trio which costs next to nothing.
Actually this alt think has bearing issues as well...at least it seems to be awfully noisy...and my bad again. I've re-read that upgrade info quite a bit but i guess i still missed it. My alt is the big OEM one...and I'll put the smaller 88-up one back on....
Bearings are also inexpensive. I replaced my Formula's alternator bearings a couple of years ago. I think it was about $15 for the two of them.
If you can't tell, I'm trying to convince you not to pay someone else to rebuild your alternator.
I understand and I don't shy away from most things of this sort. When I first got my drivers license i worked after school rebuilding generators and starters before the days of alternators..and my own personal 55 Ford was 6 volt. This is giving away my age I know. This local Auto Electric shop has been re-doing my stuff for a few years actually, and will not charge me much. Doing my own work is my nature..we'll see what the alt looks like when i get it out,.
[This message has been edited by justaw (edited 01-07-2016).]
Best of luck removing it. I'm blessed with a 4 speed Muncie and had a heck of a time getting mine out to replace a broken alternator bracket. The real task was removing the long thru-bolt that fixes the pivot point of the alternator to the bracket. Perhaps plan a contingency alternator bracket. If my bracket wasn't broken to begin with, I surely would have snapped something while trying to remove this seized bolt! I seem to recall unbolting a tie rod for clearance to remove, as well. I'm not clear on what additional clearance is lost with an automatic transmission, though.
I seem to recall unbolting a tie rod for clearance to remove, as well. I'm not clear on what additional clearance is lost with an automatic transmission, though.
Oh man... if you thought it was difficult getting the alternator out of there with a 4-spd Muncie, be ever so grateful you weren't attempting this with an automatic. It's horrible! The automatic tranny takes up space along the side of the engine (to do with the passenger side axle) that a manual tranny doesn't.
Best of luck removing it. I'm blessed with a 4 speed Muncie and had a heck of a time getting mine out to replace a broken alternator bracket. The real task was removing the long thru-bolt that fixes the pivot point of the alternator to the bracket. Perhaps plan a contingency alternator bracket. If my bracket wasn't broken to begin with, I surely would have snapped something while trying to remove this seized bolt! I seem to recall unbolting a tie rod for clearance to remove, as well. I'm not clear on what additional clearance is lost with an automatic transmission, though.
Thanks for your input. I actually have ordered a spare new FS bracket just in case. I've been able to loosen the pivot bolt so I think it won't be a problem. I'd like to also install a Rodney's serp bracket when I have it out if possible.
From what I've been able to research the auto trans makes a pretty tight situation and that's why I've brought up the discussion here before doing it. The alt also doesn't charge when first started when it's cold. There sure isn't a lot of working room there for sure.
I'd like to also install a Rodney's serp bracket when I have it out if possible.
I love Rodney's products, but just make sure you check out Dodgerunner's spring belt tensioner HERE. It's what I've used for quite a few years. It's worth every nickel.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-07-2016).]
I love Rodney's products, but just make sure you check out Dodgerunner's spring belt tensioner HERE. It's what I've used for quite a few years. It's worth every nickel.
I have seen this guy's solution..great products. If I hadn't already bought Rodney's I may have done this. I'm not sure how much room there is to do either . I'll make a decision about this I think when I get the alt out.
[This message has been edited by justaw (edited 01-08-2016).]
I have replaced the alternators on both my GT's (85 & 86) several times. They are both auto's. My secret is to follow a particular sequence in taking it out. It may sound strange but this is how I do it: unbolt the alternator, move it over toward the back of the cradle (let it rest/sit on the cradle) then finish unbolting the alternator bracket, remove it first, then maneuver the alternator out of the bottom of the wheel well. Yes, you need to unbolt the rear inner tie rod. I do suggest A) upgrading to the CS series alternator because it's a better design (puts out more amperage at idle, which will help flickering Fiero gauges) and because the outer case is a little smaller as mentioned above. Go to Ogre's Cave for info. Don't forget to ask for an alternator for an 88, NOT 86! Oh, and B) get yourself a new, quality alternator. it's a good 3+ hour job. You DONT want to go back in there for a while...'Kit
I do suggest A) upgrading to the CS series alternator because it's a better design (puts out more amperage at idle, which will help flickering Fiero gauges) and because the outer case is a little smaller as mentioned above.
If you've done this conversion from an SI to an CS alternator yourself, I'm curious what you used for a heat shield. The SI alternator has an insulated shield that bolts directly onto it, whereas on a V6 Fiero which comes with a CS alternator there's a metal shield that bolts onto the engine's exhaust manifold (to protect the alternator). What did you end up using to help keep heat off the swapped in CS alternator?
If you've done this conversion from an SI to an CS alternator yourself, I'm curious what you used for a heat shield. The SI alternator has an insulated shield that bolts directly onto it, whereas on a V6 Fiero which comes with a CS alternator there's a metal shield that bolts onto the engine's exhaust manifold (to protect the alternator). What did you end up using to help keep heat off the swapped in CS alternator?
My preference would be to use the heat shield from an '88. I've been looking for one for as long as I've owned my Fiero LOL.
The shield from the SI alternator doesn't fit right on the CS alternator, unfortunately. Those things are a dime a dozen in the junkyard however.
I have replaced the alternators on both my GT's (85 & 86) several times. They are both auto's. My secret is to follow a particular sequence in taking it out. It may sound strange but this is how I do it: unbolt the alternator, move it over toward the back of the cradle (let it rest/sit on the cradle) then finish unbolting the alternator bracket, remove it first, then maneuver the alternator out of the bottom of the wheel well. Yes, you need to unbolt the rear inner tie rod. I do suggest A) upgrading to the CS series alternator because it's a better design (puts out more amperage at idle, which will help flickering Fiero gauges) and because the outer case is a little smaller as mentioned above. Go to Ogre's Cave for info. Don't forget to ask for an alternator for an 88, NOT 86! Oh, and B) get yourself a new, quality alternator. it's a good 3+ hour job. You DONT want to go back in there for a while...'Kit
I appreciate the first-hand experience info..I actually HAVE gone to Ogre's cave and read the write-up..I'll refer to it again as I go along I'm sure. It sounds like finding the right heat shield would be a plus as well. Since I will get my alt form my electric guy, he may have a shield I can use...I know he has the correct pigtails as well.
It seems like the general idea is to do this job w/o dropping the cradle so I will plan it that way. I don't want to bite off potential cradle bolt issues at this time.
Best wishes for all who work on their own here.
[This message has been edited by justaw (edited 01-08-2016).]
The original heat shield should easily fit on the CS. There is a single bolt that holds it to the alternator case back. It will take some maneuvering to get the bolt to line up with the hole though. Also in some cases a small adjustment by the exhaust manifold. You can also reuse the insulation material inside your heat shield, if there, it's a aluminum style mat insulation held to the heat shield with tabs.
Ogre has a write up by a fellow named Rabid Wombat that is very useful and will have the part numbers for the new electrical plug to the alternator you will need, as well as, the part numbers for the '88 GT CS alternator. You can probably also do a Google search for Rabids' posting if unable to find the cave link.
If you've done this conversion from an SI to an CS alternator yourself, I'm curious what you used for a heat shield. The SI alternator has an insulated shield that bolts directly onto it, whereas on a V6 Fiero which comes with a CS alternator there's a metal shield that bolts onto the engine's exhaust manifold (to protect the alternator). What did you end up using to help keep heat off the swapped in CS alternator?
I didn't use a heat shield. Both of my cars (and MANY other Fiero's) don't even have them. And yes, I know why. . Because after the first alternator replacement job, the previous owner didn't want/need the extra hassle of putting the heat shield back on after having already spent 3+ hours getting the alternator back in there! . And yes, I know the point is to keep the diode pack from getting hot/fried. I can get away with it simply because I put very minimal miles on my Fiero's. If they were my DD's, I would have custom made a shield that would work. It's not that hard in my opinion. Kit
These are the parts I used for the swap. Only mod was the plug wiring, I believe you only use two of the three wires on the plug. The alternator needs no modding to install on the OEM bracket/mount. Your heat shield will work.
CS-130 105 amp alternator DL 1352-5-7 (Auto Zone). Will have the correct bolt orientation for OEM alternator mount.
Dorman 3 wire plug #85954
Both parts found at most outlets locally.
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 01-09-2016).]
The original heat shield should easily fit on the CS. There is a single bolt that holds it to the alternator case back. It will take some maneuvering to get the bolt to line up with the hole though. Also in some cases a small adjustment by the exhaust manifold. You can also reuse the insulation material inside your heat shield, if there, it's a aluminum style mat insulation held to the heat shield with tabs..
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: I didn't use a heat shield. Both of my cars (and MANY other Fiero's) don't even have them. And yes, I know why. . Because after the first alternator replacement job, the previous owner didn't want/need the extra hassle of putting the heat shield back on after having already spent 3+ hours getting the alternator back in there! . And yes, I know the point is to keep the diode pack from getting hot/fried. I can get away with it simply because I put very minimal miles on my Fiero's. If they were my DD's, I would have custom made a shield that would work. It's not that hard in my opinion. Kit
I can understand this concept....we'll see what I end up doing...
I should say that I have modified my engine bay fan circuit to always have that cooling pipe blowing air to the alt when the engine is running hopefully to help some...also didn't I read where the CS alt has better cooling built-in?
[This message has been edited by justaw (edited 01-09-2016).]
The original heat shield should easily fit on the CS. There is a single bolt that holds it to the alternator case back. It will take some maneuvering to get the bolt to line up with the hole though. Also in some cases a small adjustment by the exhaust manifold. You can also reuse the insulation material inside your heat shield, if there, it's a aluminum style mat insulation held to the heat shield with tabs.
I forget exactly why I didn't carry through with using the SI-style heat shield on my CS alternator. I must've thought the mounting bolt would have clocked it in the wrong position and there were clearance issues, or some such reason. I need to look into it again. Maybe I need to massage it a little by the exhaust manifold...
Originally posted by css9450: I forget exactly why I didn't carry through with using the SI-style heat shield on my CS alternator. I must've thought the mounting bolt would have clocked it in the wrong position and there were clearance issues, or some such reason. I need to look into it again. Maybe I need to massage it a little by the exhaust manifold...
I just got back from visiting my local auto electric guy. I wanted to make sure he had the parts to assemble a new cs at the end of the month. He said he could clock it to work with the heat shield if needed with a little work.
He will just compare my old unit to the new one and make sure everything lines up including the pulley etc...and supply the correct pigtail to replace my alt...all for the price of the alt.
I just did this 3 or 4 times about two months ago on my 86 GT w/auto. The reason I did it several times was due to a defective new alternator once, and confusion on my part when converting to an 88 style alternator. However, I can tell you with 100% certainty that you can switch it out WITHOUT dropping the cradle. I can actually do the whole thing in under an hour now. Practice makes perfect. A brief synopsis is to disconnect battery, jack car, remove wheel, disconnect tie rod, remove 3 of the 4 bolts on the alternator bracket, just loosen the 4th one. If I remember correctly, I left the second bolt from the bottom in. This will cause the bracket to swing on the bolt you loosened, remove belt, remove adjusting bolt of alternator, remove pivot bolt holding the alternator to bracket. Alternator will come out with very little twisting. I may have missed something. Just ask. Im gonna look for my thread on it for ya.
I just did this 3 or 4 times about two months ago on my 86 GT w/auto. The reason I did it several times was due to a defective new alternator once, and confusion on my part when converting to an 88 style alternator. However, I can tell you with 100% certainty that you can switch it out WITHOUT dropping the cradle. I can actually do the whole thing in under an hour now. Practice makes perfect. A brief synopsis is to disconnect battery, jack car, remove wheel, disconnect tie rod, remove 3 of the 4 bolts on the alternator bracket, just loosen the 4th one. If I remember correctly, I left the second bolt from the bottom in. This will cause the bracket to swing on the bolt you loosened, remove belt, remove adjusting bolt of alternator, remove pivot bolt holding the alternator to bracket. Alternator will come out with very little twisting. I may have missed something. Just ask. Im gonna look for my thread on it for ya.
Oh, forgot to mention about the pulley. It's almost certain that if you get an 88 CS alternator, it will have the 6 groove pulley. Fiero's take 5. (I'm going by memory here) You will most likely have to swap pulleys from your old alternator. Don't forget... Kit
You absolutely need to use an alternator heat shield on '85-'87 Fiero 2.8 engines. Otherwise the extreme heat from the very nearby rear exhaust manifold just cooks 'em.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-09-2016).]
As you will see if you read my threads, Patrick was a huge help among others. I'm surprised he didn't link my thread already. He is Mr. Archive.
Thanks Jim. I'm just glad that after suffering through so many of these problems myself over the last twenty years that I'm able to share some of what I've learned.
I see a lot of V6s in the junkyard but most are pre-'88 and the few 88s I do find always have that shield either missing or mangled really bad. But its just sheetmetal I suppose I should give it a try coaxing it back into the right shape.
One alternative is to use header wrap on just that one exhaust pipe that goes behind the alternator. Header wrap comes in rolls so you buy only what you need. This would take away the need to make/use a shield. Kit
Thanks Jim. I'm just glad that after suffering through so many of these problems myself over the last twenty years that I'm able to share some of what I've learned.
Great pics of the shields Patrick, I have tried to rate you +++ but I guess I'm not allowed here yet. I can see when I have this off I should analyze a way to maybe even make a shield if the CI doesn't fit well.
I can see where the 88 design would probably be better providing a little more air separation from the manifold and alt. A guy should be able to form something similar maybe..I've got another project where I need to make a "warm air stove" on my other Ford for cold starts. Just finding and shaping the metal may be in order...
[This message has been edited by justaw (edited 01-09-2016).]
Oh, forgot to mention about the pulley. It's almost certain that if you get an 88 CS alternator, it will have the 6 groove pulley. Fiero's take 5. (I'm going by memory here) You will most likely have to swap pulleys from your old alternator. Don't forget... Kit
good words...aappreciate it..since I have decided to let my auto electric guy make me a new CS he will re-use my pulley he said..and now that Patrick donated a pic of an 88..we can make sure the clocking is right for best access..
Great pics of the shields Patrick, I have tried to rate you +++ but I guess I'm not allowed here yet.
Yeah... negatives are oh-so-easy to pick up, but positives are much harder to come by. Anyway, I gave you a "+" to help speed up the appearance of your ratings bar.
The automatic tranny takes up space along the side of the engine (to do with the passenger side axle) that a manual tranny doesn't.
Oh, and B) get yourself a new, quality alternator. it's a good 3+ hour job. You DONT want to go back in there for a while...'Kit
. And yes, I know the point is to keep the diode pack from getting hot/fried. I can get away with it simply because I put very minimal miles on my Fiero's. If they were my DD's, I would have custom made a shield that would work. It's not that hard in my opinion.
A brief synopsis is to disconnect battery, jack car, remove wheel, disconnect tie rod, remove 3 of the 4 bolts on the alternator bracket, just loosen the 4th one. If I remember correctly, I left the second bolt from the bottom in. This will cause the bracket to swing on the bolt you loosened, remove belt, remove adjusting bolt of alternator, remove pivot bolt holding the alternator to bracket. Alternator will come out with very little twisting. I may have missed something. Just ask. Im gonna look for my thread on it for ya. 
Anyway, I gave you a "+" to help speed up the appearance of your ratings bar.
