I bought reman calipers from the Fierostore as well as the flex lines. One of them is leaking around the bottom washer on the banjo bolt. No matter how tight i get it, they still leak. Ive changed washers a few times, same thing. Any suggestions? Anyone know the torque specs? I dont want to strip the threads out and ruin the caliper. This already the second reman caliper on this wheel. The first leaked around the piston, so I had to send it back.
[This message has been edited by B3mith (edited 01-10-2016).]
Try doubling the washers on the leaking side as a last resort. Also be sure you are installing the washers in the correct direction. They have two different sides and require proper installation. Use brand new washers. These are one-time use crush washers.
Whoops, I mentioned the second washer. Yes. I believe flat side faces caliper. Memory got fuzzy. You can try tightening, backing off, and tightening again for a better crush.
One trick I have used successfully is to loosen the bolt just enough to move the line (with a bit of force) and wiggle it back and forth to sort of seat the washer, then re-tighten. If that fails, you're gonna have to take it all apart and inspect everything. Be careful not to strip the threads or you're gonna have to replace the caliper and the banjo bolt.
------------------ 1986 SE Aero coupe.
3.4 DOHC swap is complete and running, now just have to finish the rest of the car...
I've heard of people having problems with the banjo bolt bottoming out before the crush washers seal. In that situation, an extra crush washer or two might be required.
Old copper crush washers can also be re-used...
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
Yes, copper crush washers can be reused, but they must be annealed first. New copper crush washers should already be in the annealed condition, so you normally should be able to use them right out of the box. (Copper will slowly age-harden at room temperature, though. Those copper crush washers you bought 10 years ago, even though "new," may need to be annealed before use.) When you install them the crushing process work-hardens the copper, so they become much less flexible and may not seal if you try to reuse them "as is." Heating the copper washers to annealing temperature (~1100 degrees F ... a simple propane torch will do) and cooling them back to room temperature will restore their ductility and allow them to be reused once or twice.
Soft aluminum crush washers work-harden when used, too, but they can't reliably be annealed using simple workshop tools and techniques. Just throw them away and buy new ones. I assume that the use of aluminum crush washers is becoming more common due to the increasing price of copper.
Torque spec on those banjos is quite low - like 15 lb ft IIRC.
If you've really wrenched on it, it would be worth pulling the bolt to ensure the fitting itself isn't cracked - I've seen that on other cars.
Crush washers should never be reused, however if they are copper they can typically be annealed and reused. If they're not copper, you might try getting some copper ones - I've personally had very mixed results from steel and aluminum crush washers. The copper ones always work.
Im using copper washers. I dont feel like I've over tightened it. The washers are barely engraved on the caliper side. Not near as much as the ones that came off.
NEVER use more than 1 washer per side. Not safe at all!
As mentioned, check the depth that the bolt goes in. Clean both sides of the brass block on the brake hose with a brass wire brush. Wire wheel the collar on the bolt perfectly clean or buy a new bolt. Lastly, they do make the copper washers in different thicknesses however if everything is not spotlessly clean, the slightest burr or rust chip will cause a leak.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 01-10-2016).]
New "OE" or SS hoses? Many SS hoses can cause issues/problems just because of caliper ends.
Most SS have "universal" end that put all load from banjo bolt in a small area. Any small defect then will leak fluid. OE caliper ends use entire washer area.
Originally posted by thesameguy: Torque spec on those banjos is quite low - like 15 lb ft IIRC.
If you've really wrenched on it, it would be worth pulling the bolt to ensure the fitting itself isn't cracked - I've seen that on other cars.
Crush washers should never be reused, however if they are copper they can typically be annealed and reused. If they're not copper, you might try getting some copper ones - I've personally had very mixed results from steel and aluminum crush washers. The copper ones always work.
Fiero spec is low, 31 ftlb (42 N-m) front or rear, but spec is for clean dry threads... Fluid is lube and voids the spec. Over torquing is easy and common and can strip the Fiero Al caliper.
Fiero uses Copper washers. Dorman Part # 484-180, 484-180.1 or 66223 at most parts stores. (# is same part but # means box package, bagged, etc.)
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
New "OE" or SS hoses? Many SS hoses can cause issues/problems just because of caliper ends.
SS lines from the FieroStore. I replaced them all the way around and this is the only one leaking. It looks like its leaking from the caliper side of the bottom washer.
put just the bolt in and see if the hose fitting and the washers combined are thicker than the space between the bolt head and the caliper. That will tell you if the bolt is botteming out before it can really compress the washers. . sealing surface of the caliper could be pitted. a trick I learned was tighten the bolt down and than tap the head with a hammer and retighten. . and again never double the washers. Get thicker ones if needed.
[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-10-2016).]
One thing I have run into with washers is sometimes the holes are bigger than need be or I should say bigger than the bolt you use them on and they say they are made for. Mostly steel washers but I have seen it in copper and other metals. We have been using copper washers on oil pans for decades on oil pans and brake hoses to the caliper.
if, and I say if this is the only one out of 4 that is leaking take a closer look at it and the bolt, are they tight to each other or is there slop? look at any you have laying around or go to the parts store and get a new one, but like others have said they are reusable, hell I have never changed one when doing an oil change and none of my cars have ever had a leak, unless it was a nylon washer and then I would just replace it with copper.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
One thing I have run into with washers is sometimes the holes are bigger than need be or I should say bigger than the bolt you use them on and they say they are made for. Mostly steel washers but I have seen it in copper and other metals. We have been using copper washers on oil pans for decades on oil pans and brake hoses to the caliper.
if, and I say if this is the only one out of 4 that is leaking take a closer look at it and the bolt, are they tight to each other or is there slop? look at any you have laying around or go to the parts store and get a new one, but like others have said they are reusable, hell I have never changed one when doing an oil change and none of my cars have ever had a leak, unless it was a nylon washer and then I would just replace it with copper.
Originally posted by B3mith: SS lines from the FieroStore. I replaced them all the way around and this is the only one leaking. It looks like its leaking from the caliper side of the bottom washer.
Very likely You did nothing wrong and still have problems. Again, often SS ends still put pressure on smaller area on washers... Coppers washers can bend too when parts doesn't clamp entire surface. This time Caliper has small defect and SS ends may have make this more obvious. (Might have leaks w/ OE hoses too.)
Most would be better buying local because many have to return bad rebuild parts. If good, Online Calipers can work but when you have problems then you wait for shipping etc.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 01-11-2016).]
I agree with a lot of what was said, especially about using copper washers that hug the banjo bolt and give the banjo edges more surface to deal with. On another note, I really liked the point Ogre brought up about aftermarket brake lines and how the banjo head can be quite thin, especially the sides. As he said, brake lines like this make it really hard to get proper sealing. In fact, I will NOT purchase brake lines until I can see how robust and meaty the banjo sides are. Kit
Check the surface of the caliper. Sometimes they beadblast them so they are too rough to seal at the low torque. I have had to use emery cloth to smooth this area down, for a good seal.
My 87 SE had a leak at the RF caliper fitting after installing a new Centric brake hose (CENTRIC 15062048 supplied by Rockauto) with new Delco washers. After unsuccessfully trying three different sets of washers, a new banjo bolt and employing the techniques above, replacing the Centric hose with one from O'Reillys ended the leaking problem.
I also had 2 leaking calipers from Rock Auto. One of them had pitting in the sealing surface of the caliper, the other had an incomplete sealing surface. It had a very small surface in one area. They were supposed to be name brand, either Bendix or Raybestos, I forget which. I returned them and bought calipers at AutoZone. Same box, same hardware, same part number stamped on them in black ink. They were Cardone or ReplacementParts I think.
