***I'm specifically looking for answers from people who know the engine well/have owned one. I've seen plenty on them there interwebs hating on it 3rd party***
I'm probably 2-3 weeks out for getting the donor car for the engine swap into my 85 GT and I'm still torn between a 3.4 DOHC LQ1 and a 3800s/c. I know the reasons for a 3800 well but the LQ1 seems to suite where I'm going with the car much, much more. I'm far more concerned about balance and response vs peak power but also still want north of 200hp for what I'm doing.
I've been researching it and beyond the 3rd party hate or people abusing their Monte Carlos it seems to come down to timing belt, intake design, and oiling issues. The timing belt and intake don't worry me that much, this isn't going to be a car that's driven often and modifying the top half of the intake seems easy enough since I'll be going with a fastback setup from Archie. Just how major are the oiling issues with the oil pump(?) setup in the distrubtor area? Is it something that can be machines around/redone right? I've read of the double seals to buy more time but that's still a kludge vs a fix.
Also for those with 3.4 DOHC Fieros... how do they drive? It really seems like it would be the right engine for the chassis.
I bought a red 2 dr 1995 Monte Carlo with that engine in 1996 and wasn't crazy about it. Was strong on the top end, sluggish on the bottom end but the car had the 4 speed auto automatic. It was rated at 210 HP. It wasn't reliable and I had to bring it back to the dealer a few times to fix an oiling problem and a piston knock. . A timing belt is used to drive the camshafts and good for 60K miles The LQ1 is basically a 60* V6 pushrod engine block with two massive and heavy OHV 4 valve per cylinder heads. The heads flow great and the engine runs smooth but the engine is not economical (especially with a heavy foot) but the engine was in a heavy car. Just an opinion but the 3800 , even the N/A version is a far better engine. The LQ1 only revs higher. Aftermarket support is also non-existent with the 3.4DOHC engine.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
MIght I suggest the 2006+ 3.9 LZ9 (GTP) engine? 240 hp/240 ft lbs, lighter, smaller, better fuel economy, more power, very reliable, lots of newer engines at the junkyards that don't need rebuilding. I think you can use the stock '88 Fiero flywheel (neutral balance) with an upgraded clutch.
[This message has been edited by mender (edited 04-24-2016).]
MIght I suggest the 2006+ 3.9 LZ9 (GTP) engine? 240 hp/240 ft lbs, lighter, smaller, better fuel economy, more power, very reliable, lots of newer engines at the junkyards that don't need rebuilding. I think you can use the stock '88 Fiero flywheel (neutral balance) with an upgraded clutch.
Interesting that you should mention that. I was considering an LZ9 (actually an LGD, which is the Flex Fuel version, and much more common since they came in Impalas) until I saw your LFX thread. I have an LZE (3.5 version of the same engine) in a G6 GT, and have often thought it would make a great swap into a Fiero. The LZ9/LGD, even more so. Just bought a car, a couple of weeks ago, specifically for this swap.
Pancake... My apologies for the hijack. I consider the LQ1 a viable option for a Fiero. Have seen several. Just that the technology has improved drastically in the 20 years since it was introduced. If you do the LQ1, replace the timing belt while it's out of the car. (There is a special tool available/necessary to assist in keeping the cams timed correctly, while doing it.) Also look into replacing the O-ring on the oil pump drive. I've heard that the rear head has to come off to do it. But I don't know if that's true or not.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-24-2016).]
I've read the same about pulling the head for the oil pump, that oil pump issues are actually the thing that really concerns me about this engine. That and possibly rushed/bad engineering (not that GM would ever do such a thing )
The reason I'm looking at those two engines are simplicity. I have had many a project where I went with the interesting/cool route and ended up selling a non-running project 2-3 years down the road after I hit enough roadbocks to stop it. My last one was a rather spectacular 3.2l M3 engine swap into a 76 2002 for any BMW junkies on the forum; by the time I'd adapted the front end to make the pan work with the draglink setup it wasn't really an 02 anymore. I'm specifically after something that his a highly simple garage swap and both of the engines I'm looking at that fit that perfectly. Both are essentially bolt in, ODB1, and simple to work with compared to a more modern powerplant. If that weren't the case I'd be all about a Cobalt SS turbo engine
Pancake... My apologies for the hijack. I consider the LQ1 a viable option for a Fiero. Have seen several. Just that the technology has improved drastically in the 20 years since it was introduced.
No worries at all! I'm after some informed debate about V6 swaps vs "just put a 3800 in it". This sort of thing is perfect for it
[This message has been edited by Pancake (edited 04-24-2016).]
When I did mine, 95 engine bolted to a 5 speed suzzy box. I replaced the cam belt when I installed it but otherwise didn't really do anything to the motor. Pretty much no after market stuff for it so it is what it is. It's BIG and heavy but that said, I loved it. It never missed a beat, pulled like a train from any speed. Was loping along at 2600 rpm at 70 mph in 5th gear and would still pull away. Not neck breaking but steady power. The only down side to using the 5 speed suzzy was the jump from 1st to second gear was a bit wide so it'd scream in 1st then be loping by the time I got it into 2nd but it still pulled. I've read the suzzy box is not that strong (it was bolted to a 4 cyl duke before the dohc) but I never had a problem with it although I never abused it by dropping the clutch either.
If the (2.8) engine in my current car ever dies I'd do another one no problem.
You can real all about my swap on my web site.
That's just my experience.
I've considered the 3800 but it seems to me (and I may be wrong here) that there is some messing around with axles needed. With the dohc/suzzy box I had the box in the stock location so no messing around with axles and the engine fitted just fine. You do have to cut the passenger side deck lid hinge mount though to get it to fit. ------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
No worries at all! I'm after some informed debate about V6 swaps vs "just put a 3800 in it". This sort of thing is perfect for it
I see you're from Portland; I know some Fiero guys out that way, they race in Chump and have been playing with different engines for their street cars. PM me if you'd like their emails.
If you're looking for a simple and elegant engine, you won't want a 3.4TDC. It has a timing chain AND a timing belt, and has 5 camshafts including the "dummy cam" to drive the timing belt.
The one upside of the 3.4TDC is that it responds to boost really well.
That said, a mildly tuned 3500 will get you similar performance, but will weigh about 100 lb less.
I have a 96 LQ1 in my 85 SE. Did the swap 5 or 6 years ago. I love the way the car drives. I have a 5 speed Getrag in mine and it seems to fit the car so well. The only problem I have had with the engine was a failed belt tensioner. The gas mileage is not great but I don't care. Just enjoy driving it.
Joe Sokol
------------------ 85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II 88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby) www.fieroking.com
I have an 85 gt with the lq1 swap and so far i love it. Something gets me about the higher rpm limit.. When i had the engine out i just went through alot of the seals and gaskets and replaced them, also the timing belt, didn't even mess with taking off the heads. The thing to remember is always do it right and don't skimp on some things. I would reccomend a five speed trans. my just revs way to high at highway speeds. It is a really fun swap, I definitely recommend this engine! Just remember to build a correct exhaust system mine is thrown together haha
[This message has been edited by zjwester (edited 04-26-2016).]
I have an 85 gt with the lq1 swap and so far i love it. Something gets me about the higher rpm limit.. When i had the engine out i just went through alot of the seals and gaskets and replaced them, also the timing belt, didn't even mess with taking off the heads. The thing to remember is always do it right and don't skimp on some things. I would reccomend a five speed trans. my just revs way to high at highway speeds. It is a really fun swap, I definitely recommend this engine! Just remember to build a correct exhaust system mine is thrown together haha
A 5-speed is a given; I have yet to drive a pre-2006(ish) auto that had decent throttle response and the current 4 speed in my car NEEDS to go away. Intake and exhaust are kind of a given too, from everything I've read that's where the factory really limited those things.
[This message has been edited by Pancake (edited 04-26-2016).]
Came to the same conclusion that you did. I can't speak first hand, but I do have one in process. New crate engine, mated to an F40 six speed, don't have it on a cradle yet, Ecotec/F40 swap took precedence, then the XJS kicked them both back a bit. You're welcome to drop by some time if you want, look it over. I think I have a couple of extra parts as well. fastfino@ zoho.com, or mward@perkinspacific.com is best, rarely look at pm's.
I don't currently own an LQ1 but I used to, and I work on them occasionally.
An LQ1 Fiero swap with a manual transmission is a very fun car to drive. The swap isn't overly difficult to do, but it is becoming more difficult to find suitable LQ1 engines to use for the swap.
If you think you'll be happy with the stock ~210hp the LQ1 makes, then I say go for it. Like I said, they are a lot of fun in a Fiero with a manual transmission (which is to say it would be a lot less fun with an automatic). But if you want significantly more power than that, then I would suggest you find a different engine to use in your swap such as the 3800 SC or 3900 LZ9.
If you are looking for a powerful and fast Fiero swap, and want to get the best bang for your buck, then it is hard to beat a 3800 Supercharged (Series 2 or 3 engine). Lots more of these engines were made than the LQ1s, and even though the 3800 has been out of production for a while now, they are still relatively easy to find. You can buy just about anything you want to mod a 3800 to make more power from a couple of vendors who are still in business, so there should be no worries there. However, these engines do make a lot of torque, so they aren't the best choice to use with a weak manual transmission if you are going to beat on it (as it probably won't be long before you break your trans).
-ryan
------------------ More is more. Less is not enough. Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
But I don't know if that's true or not.
)
mine is thrown together haha
