Does anyone have a diagram showing which bulbs light up what on the instrument panel? I ordered the brighter bulbs from Rodney dickman and it came with one, but just showed which bulbs went where to change out. It was for the 85 mph panel for an 85. I misplaced the diagram anyway.
Would anyone have one for the 85 mph as well as the 120 mph? I have a few not lighting up (right turn signal indicator for instance on my 85 mph)?
Also, I think I saw most of the bulbs were plug and twist type 194? I may be wrong on that.
bright standard bulbs = more heat... Fact is 194 bulb can cook the socket and worse over time. Most dash lights are not on long enough to cook the sockets. Light for gauges Shouldn't be on at full power. If dimmer is "full power" and light are dim then adding hotter bulbs is wrong answer.
Even if all bulbs are good, Dim bulb can be a number of things. Most problems are here... See my Cave, Dash Dimmer
Multiple bulbs out at same time could be: plug(s) on back of dash have problems Socket(s) are bad "circuit board" is just not making contact at either/both points. Wiggle bulb socket(s) often helps. Or getting new sockets.
Example: I had seat belt light out but the socket was just loose. Rotate socket a bit like you going to remove it can make socket to get a good contact w/ the "board." Metal ears of socket will "crush" the plastic board and won't make good connection.
All use 6 bulbs for gauge lighting. Note that All or Most of FSM and others are Wrong. (A Data Error was never fixed.) 2 behind Speedo (L & N below) 2 behind Tach (A & B below) 2 behind Fuel and Temp (Not listed in FSM.) View from Back of Dash B&W Image from 88 FSM
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I'm not desiring brighter bulbs at the moment. I just didn't know if 194 was the correct type or the brighter type. I just have a couple that went out on my. I'll try rotating them a bit and seeing if that corrects the issue.
I have a spare backlight dash took apart for other work so took a picture showing how the lights are used inside the Gauge Cluster. C Upshift D RH Turn E Battery F Seat Belt G Check Engine (MIL) H Ajar I LH Turn J Temp Warning K Hi Beam M Brake
Notes: The two wells above A & B light for the tach are often filled w/ sockets and even bulbs but does Nothing. Funny thing is Wiring Diagram for the cluster shows 6 bulbs but veiw from back above only shows 4. (Most FSM and others have this.)
Rodney saying:
quote
The 85 MPH speedometer dash's have 7 bulbs for gauge illumination.
The 120 MPH speedometer dash's have 6. (There are 4 bulbs in the main gauges and 2 in the extra gauge set above the radio making them 6 bulbs for gauge illumination).
Is wrong. I have no clue how He got his data. As the picture above shows... 85mph uses 6. 120mph have to use 6 too. (Total 8 w/ aux gauges over the radio.) You can not light the temp & fuel gauges w/o O and P because the "Idiot" light wells prevent this.
Orange paint is OE for 85mph. Back of front metal cover is also painted the same. Is why changing light colors can do very odd things.
If you look carefully at G you might notice the inner side is a bit Tan... The Bulb burned out and cooked the socket etc in the process because MIL light was on full time. Morons even covered the hole to hide ECM screaming for problems. (Very likely because you won't pass inspection w/ MIL on in many states.)
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-14-2024).]
Side Note: Most dashes are Dirty making the light dimmer. Lights need the white to give good output to uniformly light the gauges. IOW the white reflect the bulb output and stops or reduce any bright spots as you look at speedo etc. Problem is as you can see above and here... Fiero and most others, assembly isn't sealed. Back shell have/had foam glued inside of it but many are gone allowing more dirt to get inside.
This is picture is halfway thru of the cleanup of my dash. (No retouching other then adding text and resizing for PIP.)
Right half is grey compared to left side, more compared to "idiot" lights. Idiot lights have wells and caskets so they seal light in (You want turn bulb only to light the turn symbol) and means they seal out dirt. The lines around then are where the gasket are. (You can see some of the Black gasket in above post.)
I used window cleaner and soft rag. Is not as bright white as OE but a lot better then the right side. OE white is when the idiot light gasket covers normally. Stronger cleaners might do better but solvents can cause problems. You don't want to eat the plastic.
This was better then expected... Not much loose dirt/glass. I cleaned out many dashes w/ a lot more loose dirt, broken glass, even where mice though was good place to live.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 07-09-2023).]
Just Not sure. I've never seen 120mph to look close enough or take it apart. I'm told all 120mph sets are back lite for speedo and tach, maybe fuel and temp too. Back light color depends on "film" and other parts the light goes thru, Like all idiot lights are white bulbs passing thru plastic cover.
Could be mains are back-lite and fuel and temp is side lite so could still have orange paint.
85mph setup... Notice the top wells over the tack... doesn't even have hole in the sheet metal. This is missing a set of gaskets for top of idiot light wells. Either PO remove them or 86 didn't come with. The gaskets is just held in place by metal ears that holds the idiot light film. Gaskets here are thin plastic w/ foam and the foam goes bad over time.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 07-09-2023).]
Yes and No... (Ignore light pollution driving in the city. External lights from Street lights etc can hind problems.) 85mph pointers and some gauge markings are orange too, close to same as the paint above, and people have hard time seeing them when lite w/ another color light. Worse when light color is "pure" from say Blue LED. OE White bulb w/ paint to reflect light isn't a pure monochrome output but a Blue LED is. Orange pointers can go nearly invisible under blue light.
Same problem Arc lights for street lights (often lights are pink or yellow) or Yellow/amber "anti-bug" lights for home... Both are monochrome lights and often do very odd things depending on finish of other items to light. Example: I have Green chairs + "bug light" = chairs can look dark/black.
Also why your eyes and many cameras have problems when Theater lights are set to pure red, green, OR blue... Backgrounds, costumes, etc can be normal in "white" light and turn dark or even another color, sections or whole thing, when viewed under any monochrome lighting setup.
Changing Colors for 120mph is harder to impossible when you don't change gauge background etc. Example: Somewhere in archives is how you can fix back-lite pointers to light w/ another color. Big issue is First you must carefully remove the pointer's paint. You can wreck the pointer very easy.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-21-2016).]
All Fieros have the dayglo orange paint on the inside of the metal cluster cover.
True, but it's only impact is on cars with front lit gauges. For the backlit, the dials are orange tinted for the shine through bits. On these cars paining the orange cover a different color will make no difference.
Originally posted by theogre: Changing Colors for 120mph is harder to impossible when you don't change gauge background etc. Example: Somewhere in archives is how you can fix back-lite pointers to light w/ another color. Big issue is First you must carefully remove the pointer's paint. You can wreck the pointer very easy.
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... I was able to change the needle colors without removing the needle from the gauge. Cover the gauge face with something (maybe blue tape) use a little solvent on paper towel slid under the needle to remove the orange, and use a tiny paint brush to put on a new color.
Update to add Gauge wiring for 85-88 w/ OP Gauge on Tach. This puts more Dash data/errata in one place...
⚠️ Warnings: Gauges need "12v" Ground and 1 wire to resistor/sender that goes to ground too. If a gauge gets power and no sender/resistor the meter will peg and maybe damage. Temp gauge have 4 "terminals" but only 3 used to connect to car. Do Not use 4th "Terminal" to test the gauge. Connect gauge terminals or dash wrong and likely wreck dash, tach, gauge or resistor on a gauge. Don't bother w/ FSM and others because won't help "bench testing" and is missing important data like has no mention of the resistors.
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The resistors change value when different batches were made. Note Color and what gauge(s) before removing. If the stamped nuts get dirty etc. Carefully Loosen/tighten the nuts a few times may "clean" them. DO NOT tighten like "real" nuts or you likely wreck the resistor. Only need to tighten enough so just stays put.
Test Resistors to Emulate a Sender: Note: Can use standard Fix Resistors close to listed value but Gauge may read a little high or low. Most Carbon resistors are 5% or more tolerance anyway. Don't need exact value just to test for working or not. Oil and Fuel test w/ 0Ω = 0/Empty, 45Ω half scale, 90Ω full scale. Temp gauge needs higher values. 55Ω = 260°F(127°C), 1365Ω = 100°F(38°C). Yes Anything in between will tell a gauge is even trying to work. (Temp Sender is NTC Thermistor ground thru threads.)
Important: Temp Sender is Not the Same as other Temp Sensors used but ECM/PCM. Most to all Temp vs Resistance Charts you see here and most other sites Does Not work for testing the Temp Gauge in the Dash or many think the Sender is "bad" when resistance never matches those charts.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-04-2021).]
Great Thread here!!!! Extremely helpful for me because I thought I had a bad circuit board because out of every bulb in that cluster only 2 bulbs worked...I had no check engine light or battery light with only 2 illumination bulbs working...I took the cluster out used 0000 steel wool to the board shined them up like gold! Bent the ears on the sockets to make them make more pressure twisting them in.. And WALAAA!!! Now I have a Bright brand new looking cluster and a CEL light to check codes. And now my alternator is charging!!!!!!!!!!!...Talk about a awesome one stop fix!!! Now just to be clear I was bench testing each socket with a 12 v power source. And most of the bulbs just needed to be taken out of the socket swiped gently with 0000steel wool and put back in...I went the extra mile and shined every connection possible.....
You need to "lube" very thin coat w/ silicon or permatex green label brake grease or can happen again. Permatex won't run when hot like parked in summer.
When 1 or more Bulbs are "dead" but a Bulb isn't blown, check the sockets.
Most OE Socket are separate parts. Typical GM one here but others can interchange w/ minor difference how the look etc. ⚠️ Some later OE & Aftermarket bulbs w/ socket attach maybe sold as 194PC are not made to take apart. When bad often have to replace the whole thing.
Common Problems... ⚠️ Don't take apart the sockets. Often doing that will break the metal, plastic or both. It was hard enough to take apart to get the pic above w/o major damage.
While the metal grips both sides of the bulb, the bulb wires only go to 1 side. If the metal cracks @ sharp bends then may not hit the wires. The metal "arms" to hit the dash can crack & seem ok @ first look but still won't touch the dash.
If the plastic is warped/"crush" then try turning the socket "out" a tiny bit may help. Note that a new socket may still have problems because the dash plastic has damage from heat or spring load. Worse if use 168 & other hotter bulbs.
Locking "ears" on the plastic socket shell can break too.
If you have problems, just replace a bad socket. Note: Dorman has them but "says" only fit some GM 1970's models... can get them in a lot of other places for less $.
"Dead" Bulbs or other dash problems are often Bend "pins" on 1 or both plug sockets on back.
Many times they just bend... While shows only a few bad ones, all on the right had glue fail.
To fix must clean the plastic & back of copper. Use Plastic Safe solvents w/o lube. Do Not allow the copper to fold tight while cleaning. I bend them over backward on a "q-tip" round shaft.
Yes, 1 above is Z bent... You pray that will survive when straighten.
For 3 on left w/ glue fail, I used Permatex High Tack gasket "glue"/sealer to attach them to the plastic. For all right needing something better, I use 3M/Scotch Photo Mount Spray Adhesive. It's a "Contact" type glue that dries very fast. This is safe & sticks for many plastic types.
I avoid remove those plugs for this reason but had this week to try to find why OP gauge is lying reading High vs. sender or resistor in back read by Ω meter. Result is better but still reading high so more wiring problems.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-30-2024).]
