Hey guys, was hoping to say hi to everyone before I had to ask a question, but I had a little issue on the drive back home with the 86GT I just bought.

So, test driving the car was all good and about half of the drive home was fine. Shifts a little clunky though but nothing too bad. Not used to having reverse and 1st in the same side and direction though. Accidentally put it in reverse a few times while getting used to it. Every other manual I've ever driven has had reverse all the way right and then up/down or all the way left and down. Anyway, after about 15-20 minutes into the drive home the shifter started getting harder to move, kind of felt like trying to go through really thick peanut butter. Still was able to shift fine though, just had to put a bit of force into it to move the shifter. As time went on it got harder and harder to shift, then finally I couldn't get it into any gear anymore. Had my dad following me so pulled over and took a look and it seemed everything was moving at the transmission ok. Had him put it in 1st and then I moved the lever on the trans a bit further and was able to get it to go into gear. was able to get it in each gear by moving it further than the shifter was allowing it to go.

So, I've already looked up the way to adjust the shift cable, but I haven't been able to find anyone saying anything about the shifter itself being hard to move. Anyone have any ideas why it would have been easy at first but progressively got harder and harder to move while driving? I've heard of the other way around in the cold where it won't move and then the engine heat thaws the cable out and allows shifting, but I'm not really sure where I should start looking first for what happened to me.
So many things wrong on the car it's hard to list them all! Tach is way off, found some stuff about replacing the caps and resistor in the tach. Temp gauge needle fell off about 1 minute into the test drive, not sure what the engine temp is getting to yet, but it ran pretty dang good till I couldn't shift. Fuel gauge is straight drunk :P Pretty sure the engine/cradle/whatever mounts are shot/ Seemed like the engine was moving around quite a bit when I would get on it, possibly why it got hard to shift? Tail lights delaminating, little broken bits here and there on the interior, right headlight won't stop trying to go up so motor is unplugged. Looks like the heater core is leaking. Interior is pretty much what you would think a 30 year old interior that's lived it's life in Texas would look like. Alignment is shot, vibrates like hell over 60. A/C kinda works, not enough for me since I like it cold, but it has that going for it at least! Lots of random electrical stuff not working. Got a nice long list of things to start working on!

Even with the shape the car is in currently, I had a massive smile on my face the whole drive home, even when I put it in 2nd and had to drive the rest of the way once it wouldn't shift! It's been almost 10 years since the last time I drove a Fiero (87 SE) and it's just as much fun as I remember (more so actually since I had the 3 speed auto that was full of banana peels and a dogged out V6 in the last one.) This one was a single owner car till I grabbed it, 66K miles on it is all, only 8k since 1998. The engine seems like it's in really good shape actually, pulled way harder than I remember my old Fiero pulling, I'm sure that's partly the 4 speed though, but it sounds good and the exhaust sounds bad ass.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll need to pick you guys brains a bit here and there, but let's start with getting her mobile again. Any ideas for me?

Thanks guys,
-Randy

p.s. Been here before about 10 years ago, don't remember my old user name though. Lots of new names and old names still here that I remember pretty well! Don't know if Revin is still around, but if so, how's it going Kevin? That 3800 still kicking in your Fiero?

I had the exact same issues the day I bought my 86 GT 4 speed. It needed new shift AND select cables. They were fraying and the exhaust heat made them into limp noodles (I could shift easier when the engine was cold, but as soon as it warmed up, it wouldn't shift).
I visually inspected to find the shift cable in poor shape and bought the replacement by itself, ignoring the advice on here to replace both. It helped, but I needed the select cable too shortly thereafter. I suggest Rodney Dickman's replacements, they are a perfect direct fit and they appear to be built even better than the OE originals.

I have a 4'spd Muncie and I love it. I second rodneys cables !

I need to adjust my cables now that I installed rodneys new ones. I can't find info on how to adjust them though.
Can you link the info you found here?

Adjustment is pretty simple. Expose your shifter by removing the ashtray/boot plate. Place shifter into 3rd gear, and lock it in place with a small screwdriver through the holes near the base of the shifter. They will only line up in first or third, third appears to be the preferred position. Now loosen the shift cable nut at the transmission and be sure the bracket is relaxed, and the tranny in third, of course. Tighten shift cable nut pretty much dead center of the slot. Undo the screwdriver in the shifter and test gear selection (I prefer the engine running for this now). Should be ideal at this point. If not, start over and try different positions at the tranny bracket.

Which cable is shift and which is select?

It doesn't have anything to do with the hex ends at each end of the cable?

The hex ends? Lost me there. Both brackets should end up with the bolt near the center of the slots at the transmission end, it's less common that the select cable is out of adjustment (if the select cable is off, you'll mess with the engagement of the reverse light switch. My first attempt resulted in smooth shifting but no reverse lights, for example). Looking at the transmission from the rear of the car, the shift cable operates on the left in a clockwise motion. Select operates in a vertical motion Into the tranny. shaft is raised or lowered as the shifter moves left and right. Hoping my lousy memory serves me correctly here!

quote Originally posted by difluoroethane: As time went on it got harder and harder to shift, then finally I couldn't get it into any gear anymore.

Let's clarify something... is it difficult to move the shifter, or is it difficult to put into gear? These are two totally different scenarios.

When it's difficult to shift... what's it like to shift with the engine not running? Any easier? If so, this has nothing to do with the shifter or shift cables.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-03-2016).]

quote Originally posted by Lou and Blue: I have a 4'spd Muncie and I love it. I second rodneys cables ! I need to adjust my cables now that I installed rodneys new ones. I can't find info on how to adjust them though. Can you link the info you found here?

I'm not home currently so I'm not exactly sure where I found the link. I know it was from searching here on Pennocks and it was a 2 page PDF from the GM service manual. But, I did find this on the Autozone website that actually looks to be pretty good. As far as I can tell from what I remember of the GM guide, it's pretty accurate.

:edit:
Just noticed that it doesn't list adjustment for the 4 speed, just the 5 speeds, but it's roughly the same for them all I believe based off of the GM manual. Once I get home I'll PM you the link I found for the GM manual though!

quote Originally posted by Lou and Blue: Which cable is shift and which is select?

The shift cable is the one closer to the firewall with the rubber boot on it where it connects to the transmission. The one connected to the bracket with the hex nut. The select cable on mine has a 90 degree white plastic looking piece on the end of the cable where it connects to the transmission.

[This message has been edited by difluoroethane (edited 07-03-2016).]

The 4 speed reverse light switch is next to the shifter and an adjustable screw in it contacts the shifter mechanism when you shift hard left and forward. Though it is adjustable (it looks like a home-brew switch), I would check to see where the select cable is positioned at the transmission first. To test the switch itself, remove the shift console/ashtrays and attempt to push the pin of the switch in, as you look in the mirror to confirm the back-up lights illuminating. There is a screw at the end of this pin, this is what you would use to adjust the switch (the screw backs out to make the pin longer, screws in go make it shorter). You'll understand when you see it.

Edit to add: the key must be in the ignition and on, for the reverse lights to work. Engine need not be running.

[This message has been edited by viperine (edited 07-03-2016).]

quote Originally posted by viperine: The 4 speed reverse light switch is next to the shifter and an adjustable screw in it contacts the shifter mechanism when you shift hard left and forward. Though it is adjustable (it looks like a home-brew switch), I would check to see where the select cable is positioned at the transmission first. To test the switch itself, remove the shift console/ashtrays and attempt to push the pin of the switch in, as you look in the mirror to confirm the back-up lights illuminating. There is a screw at the end of this pin, this is what you would use to adjust the switch (the screw backs out to make the pin longer, screws in go make it shorter). You'll understand when you see it. Edit to add: the key must be in the ignition and on, for the reverse lights to work. Engine need not be running.

Ok, cool. I figured and was hoping it had a switch at the shifter I could test, good to know that's where it's at. As the car has a few electrical gremlins I figured the switch was probably bad or needed to be adjusted when the lights didn't come on. I like electrical stuff though so I imagine I'll have fun tracking down all the little issues and fixing them.

Ok, upon inspection of the shifter, cables, and shift arm, I have found that the cable is bad for sure (still very hard to move even after cooling down), the shifter itself is fine although the reverse switch is missing, and the shift arm on the transmission moves fine with the cable disconnected. It looks like the bracket that attaches to the end of the cable and then bolts to the shift arm broke in the past and the previous owner welded the to pieces together. Select cable looks good and works fine still.



Do you guys think this is going to be an issue, and if so is there somewhere I can get a replacement? I checked the Fiero Store and Rodney's store already and didn't see that bracket on either, although I may have missed it if it does exist on either. On getting a replacement shifter cable, would you guys recommend Rodney's or the Fiero Store's, or somewhere else? Rodney's is a bit cheaper and I'm sure is good quality, but I would like to make sure I don't have any issues for a long time, so is there any difference between his and the Fiero Store's cables?

I guess I need to find a reverse switch as well. Didn't see one listed on either the Fiero Store or Rodney's store. Any ideas where to find one? Advance and O'Reilly's doesn't have any. I guess that one isn't too big of a deal since I could get any old momentary to work, just need to figure out how to mount something other than the original switch.


:EDIT:

quote Originally posted by viperine: I suggest Rodney Dickman's replacements

quote Originally posted by Lou and Blue: I second rodneys cables

Looks like I already have an answer on the cables! Forgot you guys had already recommended his stuff when I posted on Saturday. So the real question now is will the welded bracket mess me up or not and if so what can be done to fix the issue?

quote Originally posted by viperine: ignoring the advice on here to replace both

Well, like you said, my select cable seems to be in good shape and not having any issues, but I guess it would probably be best to go ahead and replace it as well since it's 30 years old at this point!

[This message has been edited by difluoroethane (edited 07-05-2016).]

I had the same issue on my first drive home from seattle to portland when i first bought my 88 gt
It was a little scary haha
One it got hot, it turned very stiff, but could still be shifted by hand at the bracket on the transaxle.
I used the west coast fiero store values, i think they are great. It did take them about two weeks to arrive.
I bought both, but so far have only needed the select cable.
Very easy and affordable fix.

quote Originally posted by Oregon88: 88 gt... so far have only needed the select cable.

It's a well known issue with the way the cables are routed with the 5-spd Getrag that the select cable often fails (due to water entering the end that points straight up). The shift cable hasn't got the same problem, and the cables are routed differently with the 4-spd Muncie (and 5-spd Isuzu).

The image with the red outline is correct. You will need to seek used brackets and used reverse light switches. Rare pieces. A pain to install the bracket as well. An altered bracket may make adjustments difficult. Hard to tell from your personal photo. Keep checking the mall in this forum, folks are quite helpful there too, especially if you post a wanted ad.

quote Originally posted by viperine: The image with the red outline is correct. You will need to seek used brackets and used reverse light switches. Rare pieces. A pain to install the bracket as well. An altered bracket may make adjustments difficult. Hard to tell from your personal photo. Keep checking the mall in this forum, folks are quite helpful there too, especially if you post a wanted ad.

Here's an edited copy of my photo:



The arrow is where the current shift cable was bolted to. The Square had a bolt put through it, but the bolt wasn't really needed as the unknown bracket was welded to the shift lever. There was nothing attached to the hole with the circle around it. From what I can tell from the pictures I posted above, the shift cable should be connected to the hole with the square around it, correct? Obviously the extra piece doesn't need to be there, but I may be able to attach the new shift cable without having to remove the welded piece. I'll check the mall and see if I can locate the reverse switch. Thanks guys!

I'll take a better picture when I get home showing how the current cable was actually hooked up. It was surprisingly working fine till the cable got so hard to move after the engine got good and hot.

[This message has been edited by difluoroethane (edited 07-05-2016).]

Yeah, that is where the cable should go, but the new weld may have ruined your ability to thread the nut onto the new shift cable end. Again, hard to tell. At the very least, it shouldn't be hard to find that part of the bracket. It's the Aluminum portion of the brackets that are difficult to get.

quote Originally posted by viperine: Yeah, that is where the cable should go, but the new weld may have ruined your ability to thread the nut onto the new shift cable end. Again, hard to tell. At the very least, it shouldn't be hard to find that part of the bracket. It's the Aluminum portion of the brackets that are difficult to get.

Yeah, I actually just paid the blood and skin price a few minutes ago trying to take the big nut off (the one located at the bottom right of my picture) of the lever where it connects to the shaft going into the transmission. Wanted to see how damaged the back side of the lever was. Figured I could maybe take it to work and cut/grind the welded part off and put it back to how it should be. Got the nut off, but it didn't look like the lever would just come off of the shaft. It is a bit rusty so I'm sure that is part of the issue, but it wasn't budging at all. Shouldn't that piece be able to come off of the shift fork shaft once the nut is removed or am I missing something? I guess I'm going to need to get that piece off whether I fix my piece or locate a replacement as I have a feeling the welded piece is far too thick now to properly attach the replacement cable when it gets here.

I never tried to get that far. I left it alone once I felt the effort required just to break that nut. Perhaps a jaw puller of the appropriate size is a good investment. Just be careful not to bend anything, and keep it soaked in PB until you get the jaw puller. I would have thought years of shifting would render that piece easy to remove. Dead wrong.

Well, problem solved! Looks like whomever welded that extra piece on there didn't do a very good job. Hit it with a wrench a few times and the extra piece came right off and barely left anything on the shifter lever. Need to get some PB Blaster or something to get that piece off of the transmission still so I can clean the bit of weld off, but it looks like that will be much easier once my cables come in from Rodney and I can drive her to the shop instead of working in my apartment garage

viperine, thank you very much for all your help so far. Also thank you to everyone else who has helped! Ratings for everyone as soon as I can do so

Looks like progress to me! You may wish to let sleeping dogs lie, the poor weld job doesn't look like it will interfere with the new cables. Perhaps put the nut back on for now, I would judge, based on the new pics, that you would likely just be creating more work that isn't needed. The flange that the new cable needs, and the surface area that the new nut will seat on, looks untouched. You may be good to go. Now you just need strong fishing line and patience in routing your new cables.

quote Originally posted by viperine: You may wish to let sleeping dogs lie, the poor weld job doesn't look like it will interfere with the new cables.

Yeah, I'll probably leave it alone if the little bit of weld left on the lever doesn't interfere with installing the new cable. Leave it alone till I decide to upgrade the engine anyway

Ok, I got my replacement cables from Rodney today and have run in to a bit of trouble while trying to install them. I have searched already and wasn't able to locate this specific information so hopefully someone might know.

I installed the new shift cable first, but it seems to be a bit too long, which I highly doubt since everyone says Rodney's cables are pretty much perfect. So the question that I have is, which hole in the firewall is the shift cable supposed to go through and which hole is the select cable supposed to go through? Looking at the firewall from inside the cabin, the select cable is currently going through the left side hole and the shift cable is going through the right. I have not removed my select cable yet, but I'm not sure if the previous owner replaced the original cables and possibly misrouted them or if they were in the right spot. The shift cable doesn't really lay properly under the console plastic and goes through the hole in the firewall at a pretty extreme angle. Rodney's instructions say to cut the old grommet off the old cable and install it on the new, but with the cable angle, I don't see how that's going to work. The stiffness of the cable makes the grommet pop back off the firewall as soon as I let go. The car does shift fine though.

Anyone know which cable goes through which hole? If I have things correct already, then any ideas on how to get the grommet back on where it will stay?


:edit:
I do have both cables routed through the hook hanging off of the throttle body. I believe that is the correct routing for the 4 speed, yes?

[This message has been edited by difluoroethane (edited 07-08-2016).]

I'm not sure which one is which, my memory is terrible but I seem to think shift cable is on the passenger seat side and select is driver?
How it should look at the firewall

quote Originally posted by viperine: Take some pics and post, too. After removing the console, you also need to lift the "skeleton" to route the cables under it. You will see a metal tab/hook that holds the cables down. The grooves on the upper surface of this skeleton is where the wiring lays (cig lighter and ALDL). When I did mine, I simply fished the old cables out one at a time and use a length of mechanic's wire attached to ensure routing of the new cables. If someone did hack this much on your car, it won't look as easy. Secondly, I really hate to ask, but did you order cables specifically for the 4 speed muncie? The 5 speed Getrag cables will not fit. Hoping the length issue isn't real.

No, I completely understand you asking if I ordered the correct cables. I ordered the Muncie 85-86 V6 4-Speed Replacement Cables from Rodney's site. I haven't attempted to put the select cable on as it is currently working and I already had the shift cable pulled out. Wanted to get it on and make sure everything was working correctly there before pulling the select cable. The transmission shifts great now and feels like it should. The shift cable is routed exactly like the old cable was routed, under the center console skeleton and I have it installed under the tab (the picture doesn't show it but I moved the select cable under the tab after taking the picture) like you said. I have both cables routed up to the hook on the throttle body (which from searching is how it is supposed to be on the 4 speed) and everything looks good on the engine side of the firewall as far as I can tell. The issue is that the shift cable doesn't go through the firewall very straight, it goes up and through at a fairly extreme angle and towards the left side of the hole in the firewall. I can't get the grommet to stay in the firewall due to the angle of the cable. The old cable went almost directly through the center of the hole, just a little to the top side, but obviously was too short to reach the shift lever which is why the extra bracket was added.

I did come across another thread where someone mentioned gluing their grommet back together, so I'll give that a shot and see if it helps. Do you think that maybe siliconing the grommet to the firewall would be a good idea? It looks like it's supposed to just be a friction fit, but it doesn't really have much of a neck area to stick to the hole in the firewall.

Anyway, here are some pics of what's going on.

New cable is under the tab:


Through the firewall:




If I wiggle the cable just a bit the grommet falls back out of the hole.


Engine bay side of the firewall:


Through the hook on the TB:


To the shift arm:

I'm almost positive that you have the firewall holes backwards. This would explain why the new shift cable is pushing in that direction. Seeing that a previous owner fudged the system (welding), I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they reinstalled the stock cables wrong. The grommet is absolutely required so the new cable doesn't get chewed up by the firewall.

Based off of NetCam's pic he posted, it looks like the select cable is going through the left hole and the shift cable is going through the right (based of the cable sizes and the fact that they cross over each other near the tab that holds them in place, exactly how they do with mine. I think I'll go ahead and try swapping the cables into the opposite holes though as the select cable is much easier to route than the shift and I think that little bit of extra slack taken up by moving the shift to the left hole will help. I can't find a diagram of how the shift cables are routed on the 4 speed but on the 5 speed they are routed with the shift cable on the left and the select on the right.






:edit:

Well, for the 4 speed the select cable goes through the left firewall hole (from the cabin side) and the shift cable goes through the right. The grommets for each cable are different sizes, probably so you won't install the cables wrong. The select cable grommet is larger than the shift cable grommet. On thing I did notice is that the shift cable I already had is sort of formed into a specific shape that kind of goes with the engine bay:



Not sure if that is because of the engine heat causing it to retain the shape over time or if that is supposed to be how the cables came from the factory. I don't know if the cables have actually ever been changed, all I know is that there was a bracket added to the end of the cable and welded to the shift arm on the transmission I guess since I had it in there already and it was shifting fine I really just need to get some glue so I can fix the grommet. Hopefully it will fit in to the hole correctly after being glued and if not then I'll just silicone it to the firewall so it won't leak.

:edit:

Son of a...
Dropped the select cable cotter pin down into the center console while trying to reinstall it Looks like it went up under the shifter bracket somewhere. Looks like to get down in there I would have to remove the whole center console skeleton and to do that remove the radio and A/C controls? Need to go find some glue for the grommet anyway so maybe I can locate another cotter pin at the hardware store. Kind of would like to pull the console completely out anyway as it looks like a soda or something has previously been spilled down in there and I'd like to be able to easily clean it out.

[This message has been edited by difluoroethane (edited 07-09-2016).]

Lol I've dropped a few things there too. The worst was a brand new custom shift knob that rolled up under the radio. I spent an hour fishing it out. It was like buying a packaged product, opening it, deciding you don't want it, and are bewildered that it will not fit back in the package you just pulled it out of. To this day, I still have no idea how the shift knob fell in and past the shifter mechanism so easily! You can attempt to fish it out with a magnetic pickup tool, but cotter pins are cheap

quote Originally posted by viperine: Update. I finally tracked down a GM parts diagram supposedly for the muncie. It DOES show the cables crossing each other under the console. I'm a bit confused, now. GM diagram.

Thanks man, that's exactly how they were on my car already and how I have to reinstall since the grommets are sized differently. Makes me feel a bit better that I was probably doing it right the first time. I think my problem is mostly that the grommet isn't right since I had to cut it. I feel like it will be fine once I get it glued and in place.


Oh yeah, that shift knob is great I want one!

[This message has been edited by difluoroethane (edited 07-10-2016).]