Curious what everyone's opinion on removing or leaving it in is. I understand its their to cool down the distributor and alternator but it only kicks on at higher temps rights? Is it really worth having? I am looking at just taking it out.
My 87 GT has it, my 88 GT does not. I have replaced the 88's alternator 3x in the 20 years I have owned it, my 87 is still running the original after 29.6 years. You be the judge.
I have an 85 SE V6 since new- The trunk blower never, ever came on; It only comes on when the radiator fan comes on and the A/C is on.........My car doesn't have A/C! So I removed it. I may re-install it in the right side vent(Added IMSA vent panels) and have it run any time the car is running.....run the vent tube along the firewall with a piece of metal flex tube to aim it at the Distributor......My alternator never has given me any trouble.
Might as well remove the brakes while you're at it... just more junk that GM threw on there for S&G.
Lol, I get what your are saying but come on. You have never taken anything off your vehicle that the manufacturer put on? If not then you are definitely one of the select few. I just wanted to ask the question.
I have an 85 SE V6 since new- The trunk blower never, ever came on; It only comes on when the radiator fan comes on and the A/C is on.........My car doesn't have A/C! So I removed it. I may re-install it in the right side vent(Added IMSA vent panels) and have it run any time the car is running.....run the vent tube along the firewall with a piece of metal flex tube to aim it at the Distributor......My alternator never has given me any trouble.
That's my point exactly. If you have a better cooling system the blower will never run. Unless you wire it to run all the time. How much does the thing do if you car never gets hot?
I appreciate all the feedback folks. It does not fall on deaf ears. I ask questions to learn. Thank you
Originally posted by Spadesluck: Lol, I get what your are saying but come on. You have never taken anything off your vehicle that the manufacturer put on? If not then you are definitely one of the select few. I just wanted to ask the question.
There is a difference between replacing tires or wheels with a different size one. and completely removing something from the cooling system, if that the case and you are right, why not replace the water pump with a steel plate, hey that belt is a pain in the ass to replace anyway right?
I worked for GM at the MA assembly plant and I can tell you that if GM thought it wasn't needed they would not have put it in there. they, GM is cheap and at how much that must have cost to buy and put in GM would not have put it in if it wasn't needed. Mustangs had a problem at speeds that were over 90 MPH handling wise, so they put 2 diagonal braces in.
and for that matter remove the dog bone, hey it would make something else easier to do if it wasn't there.
they put it in to make sure those parts don't fail prematurely. it may make little difference in Maine for me, but if I ever go to visit 82TAatwork in Florida I bet the dam fans never stop running. these cars are made to run in all sorts of weather conditions from Canada to Mexico. it might not be important today, but tomorrow if you decide to move it could be the difference between having to replace the alternator or coil.
Hey I had a 77 LTD II back in the 80s that had a recall for jumping into reverse when you slammed the door and the cost of fixing that when they built it would have been .05 that's right 5 cents while they were building the dam thing, yet they decided not to put the more expensive pin in the trany. over the model run that 5 cents would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. car company's are cheap, they won't put crap in if they don't have to.
It's hard to argue that GM didn't have a good reason for putting them in, but the two I have don't seem to create enough airflow to make a difference at this point. I had one apart, so I'm pretty sure it does work, but there is still no detectable air movement from the tubes. On the other there are no tubes past the trunk and no A/C so I don't know if it even runs. The system is probably worth having if it's all there and working effectively.
The blower fan was added when hot weather testing in Arizona on the "new" V6 resulted in melted components. Obviously these are extreme conditions, but GM still needs to protect for it. The blower was a quick fix that could be implemented before V6 Fiero production started.
The blower fan cannot be classified as necessary or unnecessary. There are advantages and disadvantages to leaving it off or installing it.
The necessity of the blower fan is really a judgement call. Hell, GM changed their mind about it for 1988 (and using the same coil design).
Don't think of OEMs as having the voice of God. The designers weren't wizards; they were probably just regular people.
For what it's worth, my blower fan is wired to be always on (in run). I decided to protect the alternator and coil, at the risk of having to replace the blower fan prematurely, since the blower may not have been designed for continuous duty. The setup I have represents my judgement of the "overall best" setup for my Fiero. It's not right, and it's not wrong; it's an opinion.
Ok here goes. The fan is for cooling the alternator and ignition components when the ac is on. What changed in 88, well the alternator changed. So I am willing to bet they felt the 88 alternator did not need the additional cooling. There are quit a few who have put the 88 alternator on their cars since they work better. If you want to take it off, have at it. I live in FL and think every bit of cooling I can get is worth it. Your choice but I am willing to bet your alternator will thank you for leaving it there.
What changes did they make to the 88 to change the air flow/cooling in the engine room??
I'll add to what Easy8 posted above.
On '85-'87 2.8 Fieros, the trunk blower fan comes on anytime the radiator fan does, which is either triggered by a temperature sensitive fan switch or whenever the A/C is activated. The trunk blower tubes direct cooler air (drawn from outside the engine compartment) onto the alternator and also towards the ICM (in the base of the distributor) and the ignition coil.
In '88, improvements were made which rendered the trunk blower fan unnecessary. The alternator was changed to the newer CS style which has improved internal cooling. And instead of an insulated cap like the one attached to the end of the earlier style alternator, a heat shield was installed on the right side of the rear exhaust manifold to help keep heat away from the alternator.
The other improvement, which is often overlooked, is the extensive insulated exhaust wrap added to the '88 Y-pipe. This replaced the comparatively less effective metal heat shields of the earlier Y-pipes. The exhaust wrap helps to bring down temperatures considerably in the region of the ignition coil and ICM, which along with the newer style alternator, eliminated the need of a trunk blower fan.
So in theory...Since I am swapping to a bigger output CS style alternator and I had planned on coating and wrapping the exhaust pipes when I pull the motor after I complete the interior. This should render my blower no longer needed correct?
I do greatly appreciate all the input and sound advice. Thank you for keeping me grounded, lord knows I need it for sure.
[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 08-22-2016).]
Don't forget, in '88 the y pipe had different wrapping... not just shielded, but enclosed.
Didn't I mention that?
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
The other improvement, which is often overlooked, is the extensive insulated exhaust wrap added to the '88 Y-pipe. This replaced the comparatively less effective metal heat shields of the earlier Y-pipes. The exhaust wrap helps to bring down temperatures considerably in the region of the ignition coil and ICM...
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-22-2016).]
Guess so... there is so much text in this topic, easy to miss.
GM spent the money on the fan in 85-87.. there is a reason. I think in '88, they figured it would be ok to make a few changes and dump the fan. It might lead to a few warranty repairs, but probably worth it to bean counters.
Guess so... there is so much text in this topic, easy to miss.
GM spent the money on the fan in 85-87.. there is a reason. I think in '88, they figured it would be ok to make a few changes and dump the fan. It might lead to a few warranty repairs, but probably worth it to bean counters.
The fact that back then warranty's were 36 thousand miles.. and they thought they needed to put them in, tells me it is needed on the pre 88's.. as the been counters and g.m. don't care past warranty..
Yes, Engine blower is ON anytime Rad Fan is on. Meaning Anytime AC is on.
Removing the blower makes HEI and SI alt to run hotter when AC is on. Plus AC draws more power from the alt and makes the alt generate more heat. Big problem... More heat, the less power the alt can make because heat adds resistance to stater and field coils. Same problem for Starter circuit than won't start when hot.
For 88, GM removed them likely to save money for GM plus uses CS130 alt w/ two fans, 1 you see, 1 internal. CS makes more power and have less heat problems then old SI units.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Buck531: Is there any point if keeping this if you're doing a 3800 swap and not keeping a/c?
Many 3800 etc, the blower outlets would likely not aimed at the alt or ignition parts... So likely doesn't help even if blower is still there.[/QUOTE]
Right that's what I was getting at. I know you could probably "re-route" some of the lines but since the ignition and alternator are different than the 2.8 it probably wouldn't be worth it.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: not all that hard to re direct it to where needed.
Blower might help if you can reach the new location of the parts... But Depends just what ignition and alt are used and even what exact engine and exhaust plumbing. New outlet duct(s) work won't fit easy for many and for many others not needed.
CS130 and CS144 have two full time fans and less heat generated to make power vs SI at same amp loads. CS130D is smaller and only 1 internal fan. Some engine swaps have D alts.
Note: Newer GM cars seem to use same CS setups but w/ different regulators tied into the PCM. Mean these alts often won't work easy or at all w/o PCM control.
Right that's what I was getting at. I know you could probably "re-route" some of the lines but since the ignition and alternator are different than the 2.8 it probably wouldn't be worth it.
Unless you do "OEM-grade" testing, there's no way to know if the cooling tubes are "worth it".
So you might as well duct the blower air to where it can go (ignition coils, alternator, anything appearing to be melted).
The time/money expenditure to do the testing to conclude that the blower fan is really needed outweighs the cost of keeping/installing the blower and modifying the air tubes as necessary.
I threw them away in all my 86s. Just more worthless crap under the hood. I also threw away the steering dampeners, also on both my Mercedes SLs. Made the steering a lot lighter and more road feel. Never saw any more problems than usual. Fiero ignition modules are notoriously bad all by themselves. I had them go out in winter when it was 10* so heat had nothing to do with it. All just my experience and opinion.
I threw them away in all my 86s. Just more worthless crap under the hood. I also threw away the steering dampeners, also on both my Mercedes SLs. Made the steering a lot lighter and more road feel. Never saw any more problems than usual. Fiero ignition modules are notoriously bad all by themselves. I had them go out in winter when it was 10* so heat had nothing to do with it. All just my experience and opinion.
We can debate the value of the blower to cool the alternator but old Lars experience may be an indicator . As for the steering damper, removal will lighten the steering feel but the main reason that its there is to prevent loss of control when hitting a rut, bump or hole that would snap the steering in the wrong direction and cause loss of control. As for the ignition modules; they were used in other brand GM cars and in those applications they last longer. I believe that the location near the exhaust in the Fiero is far from optimum. You may not agree with all this but like your post, it is an opinion.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
The steering dampeners never had any ill effects on any of mine, even when getting a little off pavement running hard thru corners. I autocrossed the Mercedes and they were also just fine...never felt the slightest feel of loss of control. I thought they handled much better without them. Of course I never ran into the issue of wagon wheel ruts on paved roads either... I drive one handed too and far from calling myself muscular, lol.
The steering dampeners never had any ill effects on any of mine, even when getting a little off pavement running hard thru corners. I autocrossed the Mercedes and they were also just fine...never felt the slightest feel of loss of control. I thought they handled much better without them. Of course I never ran into the issue of wagon wheel ruts on paved roads either... I drive one handed too and far from calling myself muscular, lol.
On the autobun the dampers do save you.. Have you ever owned a 80's mopar with the turboII 2.2 front driver and hammer the go pedal?? and the wheel yank your fingers off.?? that is what a small hole or dip can do at high speed.. They also help the car not follow the crown of the road.. As far as the I/m electronics.. heat kills them, the cold buries them... They ddied in the winter because the heat killed/weakened them.. the cold buried them/it
Yes, I had an 86 ES600 convertible with the turbo. I hammered it all the time and never had any steering issue. What it did have was a lot of turbo lag (turbo infancy), I am a big Mopar fan....most all of my favorite cars were Mopars. The exceptions were the Ferrari and GT-40 kits.
The modules die when they feel like it. Outside temp has nothing to do with it. Ive had them last 3 years and had them die in 2 weeks. The OEM Delco was the worst. Died in a couple weeks and GM give no warranty on them. The best I got was 3 years and maybe 70,000 miles out of a $20 Autozone one. The only correlation I ever found, coincidental or not, was 2 of them failed after long 400 mile trips in hard rain all the way from here to Carlisle...2 years in a row. Never mileage related, temp related or anything else I noticed. It was also on a turbocharged engine so even higher underhood temps.
You can argue back and forth all day but no point since those were the facts, at least in my case.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-29-2016).]
haha
