Rickady88GT the 2.8 is a much earlier model than the LFX. The LFX requires a different ECM. Besides, the LFX came in Camaros with manual tranny's.
The 2.8 Saab engine came with manual transmission also. However, that's a Bosch rather than Delphi ECM and will be different to adapt than the Camaro unit.
The 2.8 Saab engine came with manual transmission also. However, that's a Bosch rather than Delphi ECM and will be different to adapt than the Camaro unit.
It gets more complicated as more donor vehicle parts are mixed and matched. Then add on top of that aftermarket or custom parts AND a custom tune. It could be a lot of work getting all the bugs worked out. I am not against mixing and matching, I just think that my skills limit me to keep as many factory assemblies as possible. For example, I want a High Feature V6 with a manual transmission, that means I look for a HF V6 that came from the factory with a manual. That just seems the easiest way to do it, and fewer issues. BUT, I want to convert my automatic transmission to a manual in my Fiero that already has an LS4 that never had a manual option, so I am forced to mix and match to get what I want. In the end it depends on how much time, money and effort you want to spend but more importantly is the goal you want to achieve. Knowing exactly what you want is just as important because that will guide your research.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-08-2019).]
Rickady88GT, not as bad as you are making it out to be. 2012 Camaro had an LFX with a manual transmission. The clutch is a bolt in from the Saab 9-3 Aero. I am almost done with the wiring changes and have had few problems. Guess I won't know for certain until I get to the point where the key is turned, but I am an optimist.
Rickady88GT, not as bad as you are making it out to be. 2012 Camaro had an LFX with a manual transmission. The clutch is a bolt in from the Saab 9-3 Aero. I am almost done with the wiring changes and have had few problems. Guess I won't know for certain until I get to the point where the key is turned, but I am an optimist.
Cool. I look forward to seeing video and pictures.
It gets more complicated as more donor vehicle parts are mixed and matched. Then add on top of that aftermarket or custom parts AND a custom tune. It could be a lot of work getting all the bugs worked out. I am not against mixing and matching, I just think that my skills limit me to keep as many factory assemblies as possible. For example, I want a High Feature V6 with a manual transmission, that means I look for a HF V6 that came from the factory with a manual. That just seems the easiest way to do it, and fewer issues. BUT, I want to convert my automatic transmission to a manual in my Fiero that already has an LS4 that never had a manual option, so I am forced to mix and match to get what I want. In the end it depends on how much time, money and effort you want to spend but more importantly is the goal you want to achieve. Knowing exactly what you want is just as important because that will guide your research.
The 2.8 *IS* a high feature V6. I've been musing for years that it would be fun to bolt the Saab turbo system up to an LLT... although with a bigger turbo, of course.
If you want to go turbo, do twin turbos from another high feature. Also, the Saab high feature was port injected. The LLT and later are direct injected.
[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 01-09-2019).]
The later twin turbo V6's use integrated exhaust manifolds and the turbos bolt directly to the cylinder heads. Just use the whole pullout engine in that case.
The Saab manifolds should bolt right up to the LLT and the crossover pipe will most likely work too... just needs a bigger turbo. Although I don't know where the HPFP is on an LLT right off and how it would relate to the crossover pipe.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-09-2019).]
Originally posted by Will: The 2.8 *IS* a high feature V6. I've been musing for years that it would be fun to bolt the Saab turbo system up to an LLT... although with a bigger turbo, of course.
Do twins Will, that's what I'm planning for the CTS. I'm collecting hardware for the build now and sizing things up with the intent to mount the the turbos up high for gravity oil return instead of the scavenge pump most of the turbo Camaros are using along with low mounted turbos, as well as leaving room for catalytic converters.
The turbos are pretty compact next to one exhaust manifold, GT2860s with .86 turbines and ~330 hp rating. Not expecting to have it done by the end of the year but would at least like to have it completed on the engine stand. The aftermarket supercharged camaros are achieving 400+ hp at the wheels, the turbocharged versions are doing even more except with a lot more torque and using less boost pressure, best dyno sheet I've seen was 500 hp and 475 ft-lbs at 11 psi. I'm not aiming that high but, would like to reel in the 0-60 times from 6 sec to the 4 sec range with the 6 speed auto. It already has 11.3:1 compression so no engine modifications are necessary to increase it.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 01-09-2019).]
Originally posted by Raydar: That's the drivetrain that bmwguru installed in his car. He ended up using the AEM(?) PCM. Couldn't get the stocker to do what he wanted.
Sorry in advance Steve... this just reminded me of a phrase that is a applicable to that comment. "just another Saab story"
On a more serious note, that was 6 years ago and there are now more mainstream high feature applications and with that comes more tuning support - especially from the Camaro platform.
That's the drivetrain that bmwguru installed in his car. He ended up using the AEM(?) PCM. Couldn't get the stocker to do what he wanted.
I can think of some good reasons to use the newer engines over the older ones, but I understand and agree with mixing the drive train like a fine recipe but it will take a little more work and research, and in the end may need significant troubleshooting to eliminate bugs.
Sorry in advance Steve... this just reminded me of a phrase that is a applicable to that comment. "just another Saab story"
On a more serious note, that was 6 years ago and there are now more mainstream high feature applications and with that comes more tuning support - especially from the Camaro platform.
At one point, I was considering an LFX swap, with an "adapted" 5 speed (F23 or HTOB Getrag) similar to what Mender is doing, using a FWD LFX and a PCM/tune from a manual trans Camaro. But, again, it's down to my inability to fabricate.
Probably going to do the HTOB Getrag, bolted to a 3900. That should be nearly a bolt-in, as far as it goes.
I am definitely not a welder, but I have managed to do all of my fabrication so far with relatively cheap equipment from Harbor freight. Heck, I even stick welded the exhaust. The point is if I can do it, anyone can.
I learned how to weld on a 110V Craftsman flux core welder. Like everything, it took a lot of practice to get halfway good. I eventually upgraded to a 220V Lincoln ProMig 175 for about $500 (new on sale) and switched to using shielding gas vs. flux core and it made a world of difference. I would never go back to a 110V welder or using flux core unless I was doing something that required it... it just makes welding harder. The more you weld, the better you get, and a better welder really improves your results and flexibility.
By enhancing your skills and equipment (mechanical, fabrication, electrical, and ECM tuning), you significantly increase the types of swaps you can accomplish.
I learned how to weld on a 110V Craftsman flux core welder. Like everything, it took a lot of practice to get halfway good. I eventually upgraded to a 220V Lincoln ProMig 175 for about $500 (new on sale) and switched to using shielding gas vs. flux core and it made a world of difference. I would never go back to a 110V welder or using flux core unless I was doing something that required it... it just makes welding harder. The more you weld, the better you get, and a better welder really improves your results and flexibility.
By enhancing your skills and equipment (mechanical, fabrication, electrical, and ECM tuning), you significantly increase the types of swaps you can accomplish.
Using a flux core 110 volt welder is like using a screwdriver as a chisel: it works but the proper tool works so much better.
Using a flux core 110 volt welder is like using a screwdriver as a chisel: it works but the proper tool works so much better.
My experience has shown that flux core is good for the rough work of making brackets, mounts etc. Flux welds leave a lot of splatter and they are difficult to master. .If you want to do clean pretty welds as on a custom exhaust the gas mig is the ticket. Hobart makes some pretty good mig welders. Tig is also great but those welders tend to cost more.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-21-2019).]
I am definitely not a welder, but I have managed to do all of my fabrication so far with relatively cheap equipment from Harbor freight. Heck, I even stick welded the exhaust. The point is if I can do it, anyone can.
I have been watching this thread and you give me hope! I've been meaning to learn to weld for YEARS. Last year I saved up some cash and bought (what I hope is a nice) welder thinking it would force me to get going. I'm still chickening out, for no good reason. Now I have a welder sitting in a box in the garage taunting me all the time!
I have been watching this thread and you give me hope! I've been meaning to learn to weld for YEARS. Last year I saved up some cash and bought (what I hope is a nice) welder thinking it would force me to get going. I'm still chickening out, for no good reason. Now I have a welder sitting in a box in the garage taunting me all the time!
I am a retired telephone tech. I've piddled with welding from time to time but not anything serious. I use a Harbor freight stick welder that has adjustable amperage. Today I continued welding on exhaust pipes. Welding thin stuff is more challenging than the 3/16" plate I used for motor mounts, but I just practice on scrap til I get the hang of it. I'm sure there are better ways to learn, but this seems to be working for me.
Well, you're living me dream and I'm enjoying watching you do it!
When it comes to things I "want" to do, typically I've to reach a point where I *must* do something to give me the proper kick in the rear.
This conversation does remind me that one thing I need to do is have someone better at electricity than I am look at my 220... right now it's hardwired to a big air compressor. I need a smart/safe/convenient way of switching power over to a plug for the welder.
thesameguy It isn't difficult to install a plug that your compressor can plug into. Then just unplug the compressor and plug in the welder. Just make sure to switch off the breaker for thatcircuit before you start and make sure you use a plug and receptical of the proper amperage to match the breaker and wire guage.
Originally posted by thesameguy: I have been watching this thread and you give me hope! I've been meaning to learn to weld for YEARS. Last year I saved up some cash and bought (what I hope is a nice) welder thinking it would force me to get going. I'm still chickening out, for no good reason. Now I have a welder sitting in a box in the garage taunting me all the time!
I have a wire MIG, brand new, under a cover on one of my benches (taunting me too). I messed around with it a little but its one thing that I didn't feel at ease with at all. There is now an adult continuing ed program nearby for welding. I plan to attended in the near future, it opens up a lot more options on these cars.
BR's,
Mark
------------------ 86 SE V6 Auto 65 Tempest 400 CID 2018 Chevy Colorado Z71 3.6 2015 BMW 535iX M Sport 2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe 2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous
