This flush mount headlight system was once made by the late Chris Munson. Since he past a few years ago the headlights were never offered for sale again. Does anyone know who has the tooling and if they will ever be made again? They look neat , fit the lines of the car and eliminate the need for motors.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Dennis, do you know what car(s) those headlights originally came in?
I'd kind of like to try installing a set of those in the stock headlight buckets of my '88 Formula. I think it would look cool to see the headlight covers raise just a couple of inches when the lights are turned on.
I believe that Chris used aftermarket lights but not positive. There are some members of this forum that still have this setup. Hopefully they will chime in.
I have a setup. The lights are supposed to be Camaro and they use the halogen replaceable bulbs. The mounting brackets were all hand made. Not from any production automobile. The headlight housings were installed and the brackets were built around them. That's probably the reason for the halogen bulbs.
Jimmy at Fierofiberglass has the rights to the buckets. Lenses and headlight assembly are probably up for grabs, but it's been requested that anyone making them donate a part of the proceeds to Kris Munson's widow.
Danyel also makes or was making a similar setup, but I don't think it has the clear lenses.
The kit is easy to install. The light mounts just slide onto the four studs used to attach the original lights, the housing and lens slide into the hood and are attached with the headlight door bolts, and the wiring plugs up to the new headlights and the original headlight plug. The kit is going to be $200.00 for the mounts,wiring, lenses and housings without the actual headlights. Since new headlights that fit the Camaro are $24.95 each at Auto Zone, I am trying to get as many as I can find at the local U-Pull-It and providing them with the kit for an additional $50.00 for all four. The headlights are also used in the '94-'95 Grand Prix and Olds Cutlass Supreme and the Geo Storm, not sure of the years on the Storm. So those who frequent the U-Pull-It yards can probably get the headlights themselves at a pretty good price. So far most of the headlights have worked out of the yards.
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Originally posted by jscott1:
I know for sure that the '92-'93 Geo Storm had the mini-quad lights.
Next trip out to the wrecking yard I'll have to see what they have.
[EDIT] Interesting how both the Grand Prix and Cutlass (pictured below) actually have a third light added to the staggered alignment on each side.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-27-2016).]
Morning Dennis ---- Our CENTRAL VIRGINIA FIERO OWNERS club founder has them on his car and he doesn't like how they work. He says that the low profile mounting along with the nose area of the FIERO causes the lower reach of the beam to be lost on the hood before it reaches the road.
[This message has been edited by steve308 (edited 10-27-2016).]
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I believe that Chris used aftermarket lights but not positive. There are some members of this forum that still have this setup. Hopefully they will chime in.
I believe many have Small DOT Seal beams. Some fools have done similar and slim pop ups but uses fog and/or driving lights that are complete crap let alone are illegal.
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Originally posted by steve308: Morning Dennis ---- Our CENTRAL VIRGINIA FIERO OWNERS club founder has them on his car and he doesn't like how they work. He says that the low profile mounting along with the nose area of the FIERO causes the lower reach of the beam to be lost on the hood before it reaches the road.
Many have never make the lights clear the opening and a lot of light is just lighting up the radiator etc. Cause by buyers but mainly is how the two bulbs are setup. Bulbs are a bit wider then new trim for hood opening even w/ staggered bulbs. Back HB bulb I think have more issues because how it's mounted.
FiberGlass and opening act as "Barn Door shutters" for photo and stages work and cuts off a lot of light output. Worse light bounces off the FG, covers, and is a big glare problem to many drivers.
Big 1 is the covers... many remove the covers because of glare to owner/driver and others. And won't pass inspection etc because covers are illegal in many states. Many still don't get that many types of clear plastic will diffuse any light going thru it. Angle of light to go thru matters too. (Newer doublec4 "blister cover" and HL have many of same problems and Cover is Illegal in most US States.)
When cover are off... In winter, snows on the FG in front of HL can block light output. Worse in wet snow that sticks fast. Depending where you parked etc... A lot of crape, leaves, and pine needles can build up in front of, around and under the HL. Water and Road salt + anything to hold it can be a rust/corrosion problem fast.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
What I'd like to do with these lights is looking better and better all the time.
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Originally posted by Patrick:
I'd kind of like to try installing a set of those in the stock headlight buckets of my '88 Formula. I think it would look cool to see the headlight covers raise just a couple of inches when the lights are turned on.
I used to have the Kris Munson headlight setup on my Fiero. While I agree the flush-mount headlights look really good, their function left a bit to be desired. As mentioned above, there was a HUGE shadow in front of the car. Plus the light output was mediocre. I ended up installing some Hella driving lights to supplement the headlights. I eventually replaced those headlights with the low-profile pop-up lights from Fiero1Fan.
While I agree the flush-mount headlights look really good, their function left a bit to be desired. As mentioned above, there was a HUGE shadow in front of the car.
I guess I don't share the opinion that that the flush-mount headlights look "really good". To tell the truth, I can't stand them.However, I do like the look of the narrow (top to bottom) headlights that are used. If I pursue this mod, I'll mount them as far forward in the stock Fiero headlight buckets as possible. I figure that should help considerably to reduce the "shadow" in front of the car caused by the headlights being installed so far back in the flush mount kit.
Morning Dennis ---- Our CENTRAL VIRGINIA FIERO OWNERS club founder has them on his car and he doesn't like how they work. He says that the low profile mounting along with the nose area of the FIERO causes the lower reach of the beam to be lost on the hood before it reaches the road.
I've read mixed reviews on the tighter light pattern that these lights provide. I would opt not to use them on a daily driver but on a hobby/show car with very occasional night driving, I would use them for appearance sake.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
What I'd like to do with these lights is looking better and better all the time.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Patrick:
I'd kind of like to try installing a set of those in the stock headlight buckets of my '88 Formula. I think it would look cool to see the headlight covers raise just a couple of inches when the lights are turned on.
Dennis, do you know what car(s) those headlights originally came in?
I'd kind of like to try installing a set of those in the stock headlight buckets of my '88 Formula. I think it would look cool to see the headlight covers raise just a couple of inches when the lights are turned on.
Seems to me they were on camaros, grand prixs, cutlass, and other GM vehicles
I'm curious... is the light output of these transplanted Camaro, Geo Storm etc headlights lousy only when they're installed in the back of a flush-mount kit on a Fiero, or were these bulbs less than ideal while still installed in the original vehicles?
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Originally posted by solotwo:
Seems to me they were on camaros, grand prixs, cutlass, and other GM vehicles
I have a setup. The lights are supposed to be Camaro and they use the halogen replaceable bulbs. [QUOTE]
And mine before the both of you.
Each side has one adjustment for side to side and two adjustments for up and down. Problem is that the high and low on the same side aren't individually adjustable. They are crimped into the brackets and aren't held securely, but aren't removable without drilling out the rivets. Any adjustment moves both high and low. They are set back so far that they fail to illuminate the roadway for at least 50 feet immediately ahead and on either side. The lights themselves are bright enough, but it's like they have tunnel vision with the flushmount setup.
A little reworkig would solve a lot of those problems. Making each bulb individually adjustable, and putting the high beam inside so they could be adjusted to light the far left and right of the roadway, with the low beams outside, tipped inward to avoid blinding approaching cars and still light your path.
Charlie, the post of yours that you're referencing (and the one preceding it by Spadesluck) both appeared while I was doing the research that led to This post of mine. So I didn't initially see either of them until after I had posted... but thanks.
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Originally posted by fierofool:
A little reworking would solve a lot of those problems...
You've made some great suggestions. I also found some interesting information on these headlight bulbs Here.
An excerpt...
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Stock Sealed Beam H4703/H4701
The H4703 lowbeam and H4701 highbeam are DOT approved sealed beams that GM used in 88-89 trucks, 90-91 Blazers and Suburbans, 98-03 Firebirds, and a few other, less popular car applications. The lights are a 55w lowbeam and 65w highbeam. Up until a few years ago the aftermarket for them was marginal and a few people were modifying the Sylvania brand replacement units (as they had a bulb that was easily removed) by gluing their own bulb in place of them. This still did not overcome the shortfalls in the light itself. The small size (92mmx150mm) and marginal optics of the DOT spec are what makes these lights very poor. I originally overcame the marginal output by adding factory fog lights to my truck. Also, another great upgrade is to run larger gauge wire and relays for the headlights. The factory wiring is ran through the headlight switch and column dimmer, and smaller 16ga wire. My first lighting upgrade was to power the lights with relays and 10ga wire. This increased the output of the stock lights greatly, and is a must if you upgrade to any of the following lights as the higher wattage will run too great of resistance...
Lots more at the supplied link.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-27-2016).]
Same thing's happened to me, Patrick. I start a post, spend 15 minutes searching the web and my files, only to find that in the meantime 6 or 7 people have already covered every aspect of the subject. So, Hell, I just post it anyway.
Your quote snippet points out something that Ogre has said in the past. Upgrading to higher output lighting can be a serious problem on wiring and light switches that weren't designed for it. I think the Munson lights have 35w and 55w bulbs, but I'm not sure that my set has the high and low beam lenses in the correct position, or for that matter, even matched, side to side. A good set of fog lights to compliment illumination would be the way to go. I actually like the treatment of the blue car you posted. Move the lights more forward to get them out of the tunnel, put a clear lens over them to smooth air flow and smooth up the front of the Fiero.
Originally posted by fierofool: Your quote snippet points out something that Ogre has said in the past. Upgrading to higher output lighting can be a serious problem on wiring and light switches that weren't designed for it. I think the Munson lights have 35w and 55w bulbs, but I'm not sure that my set has the high and low beam lenses in the correct position, or for that matter, even matched, side to side.
Even normal HL bulbs (w/o H for PN) suffer from wiring and switches problems then many Car Makers just use 35w to 65w Halogen on same wiring w/o any upgrades. I replaced many HL and dimmer switches for cars built in 60's and 70's before halogens became OE. (Dimmer on the floor got a real beating to switch power to high/low, foot force, salt/dirt, etc.)
If you think normal bulbs use less power... Nope. 6014, replace by H6024, eats 50w low, 60w high, but generates less light for power used. Standard H6024 35w low uses less power but others can eat more.
Anyone running 55w or more really should use relays like example in my cave to stop frying OE wires and switched. If you drive at night often even 35w can fry OE wiring and better to add relays and new power w/ own fuse link directly from + box under C500.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-29-2016).]
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lol
However, I do like the look of the narrow (top to bottom) headlights that are used. If I pursue this mod, I'll mount them as far forward in the stock Fiero headlight buckets as possible. I figure that should help considerably to reduce the "shadow" in front of the car caused by the headlights being installed so far back in the flush mount kit.
