Nicely done Sir...! Only you confuse me in the instructions for installing a manual transmission. If you install a manual, you have to remove the flex plate and install a modified flywheel off of a Camaro or a Firebird, that has to be machined to a specific tolerance and balanced. Fiero Rog provides these plug and play, which is what I did, for $50 (be sure to blow the machining dust from the bolt holes.) The '88 Fiero flywheel works, as I understand, but hard to find, if not impossible. The old flex plate and bolts are just a throw away item, unless you want to keep for future automatic installs, if the existing one is not that good. I don't know what you are talking about using new flex plate bolts, since you don't need them. They are to short for a flywheel any way. What you do need is high tensile black flywheel and disc bolts specified by GM. I used the grade 8 ones, and they torque differently and not as strong. So far so good though, but I don't beat my car to death either. If one is going to put allot of stress on the clutch, like for racing, then by all means use the high tensile bolts. GM charges an arm and a leg, but they are available from other suppliers much cheaper. Wish I had known when I did mine. I was short on funds at the time, that's why I used the grade 8 bolts. (not a good idea.) If I ever have to put another clutch in or something like that, I will definitely change out those grade 8's to grade 9's.
Aso, I used the RAM HD clutch from Fiero Store for three reasons... the disc is 1/2" larger and the torque reaction is almost the same as the Spec III+ and they are both designed for this application, and it costs about $100 less. Joe Sokol has been using them on his LS swaps and his DOHC swaps and his 4.9 swaps for many years, and Joe Sokol Sr. (Fiero King out of Idaho,) his dad, dives them hard. I guess that's reason number 4...lol
Have a good one, and thanks for this great parts list and instructions. allot of newbees will be happy. It sure would have helped me allot, had I had it...! Very well organized...!
I used the grade 8 ones, and they torque differently and not as strong. So far so good though, but I don't beat my car to death either. If one is going to put allot of stress on the clutch, like for racing, then by all means use the high tensile bolts. GM charges an arm and a leg, but they are available from other suppliers much cheaper. Wish I had known when I did mine. I was short on funds at the time, that's why I used the grade 8 bolts. (not a good idea.) If I ever have to put another clutch in or something like that, I will definitely change out those grade 8's to grade 9's.
Yes the GM torque to yield flywheel bolts are expensive, but they are necessary! Just ask Darth Fiero. I've had my flywheel nearly fall off because of not using the right bolts! Don't skimp on these bolts, you will regret it!!
The fuel line adapter part numbers need to be updated. The ones listed adapt to M14 and M16 straight threads and do not work with the weird fittings on the car that require an internal o-ring (I think they're called Saginaw fittings). The correct part numbers are:
The fuel line adapter part numbers need to be updated. The ones listed adapt to M14 and M16 straight threads and do not work with the weird fittings on the car that require an internal o-ring (I think they're called Saginaw fittings). The correct part numbers are:
Thank you, and done! I actually did use the fittings listed. Always wondered why it took a TON of sealant. 80s fittings not the easiest to find info on. Appreciated!
Please remove all references to Danny McIlmoyle. I ordered a harness from him a month ago, and it has not arrived. He is completely ignoring all attempts at communication. Even if it is just caught up in the mail crossing the border, the lack of communication is unacceptable, and I'm not the only one who has had an issue.
Forgot to post this a while back. I take the 3800sc for a test pull. 12.71 quarter mile (let off throttle early) @ estimated 3,150 lbs. = ~340chp/304whp. Torque app suggest 405chp. I need some stickier tires and a bit of tuning.
I have seen on several places, here included that the ideal donor car or motor to buy is a 1998-2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. but I have also been told 1998-2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, is it just be sure to get a Series 2 or was there other differences?
I have seen on several places, here included that the ideal donor car or motor to buy is a 1998-2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. but I have also been told 1998-2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, is it just be sure to get a Series 2 or was there other differences?
A 2004 GTP has a Series III supercharger which is better, but you would have to find a throttle from a Northstar engine or use something else; it has an electronic throttle. I am not sure what is different about a 2003. It might be the computer tuning or wiring. Call up Ryan from GMTuners, he would know:
I read Austins 3800SC swap thread thoroughly and IMO its one of the best 3800 resources out there for those wishing to do this swap. Some may consider the swap outdated but a 3800SC Fiero with a stock body holds the incredible 1/4 mile record for the fastest ET with this engine.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I read Austins 3800SC swap thread thoroughly and IMO its one of the best 3800 resources out there for those wishing to do this swap. Some may consider the swap outdated but a 3800SC Fiero with a stock body holds the incredible 1/4 mile record for the fastest ET with this engine.
Thank you Dennis!!! Much appreciated.
[This message has been edited by AustinH (edited 11-17-2022).]
I am sure I am overlooking it, but if I were to use a series 3 from a 05 GTP other than the throttle body swap what else am I looking at vs a series 2? (Found a low milage GTP for a great price but don't want to have to spend more than the savings I will get on the donor car)
I am sure I am overlooking it, but if I were to use a series 3 from a 05 GTP other than the throttle body swap what else am I looking at vs a series 2? (Found a low milage GTP for a great price but don't want to have to spend more than the savings I will get on the donor car)
Other than the throttle body, you might need the angled coil pack bracket, temp sensor, oil pan, oil filter bracket etc. (provided in the build list already), but the biggest difference I'd be concerned with is the wiring could be slightly different. Go to https://www.alldatadiy.com/...DIY~C8000~R0~OF1~N/0 and buy the year/make/model car diagrams you have if you are going to be making your own harness (if you're not, let your harness maker know this info). You will also need to program the computer to compensate for the different MAF if you use one.
Otherwise I'd just pick through the engine and my build thread parts section on the topic and compare.
[This message has been edited by AustinH (edited 11-17-2022).]
Here is what you need though: earlier computer from a 98-02 GTP. You will need it to be reprogrammed for the MAF below. Check out the junkyard search, go to the last page they are $20 - https://www.car-part.com/
throttle body from a Series II or a Northstar that is cable driven. Series II is worse and you'd need an adapter for it anyways, so might as well get the bigger Northstar: Northstar for $20 on last page - https://www.car-part.com/cg...userIntSelect=679348
GTP External Transmission Range Gear Selector Neutral Safety Switch / Range Sensor Switch (1x): Standard Motor Products NS122 - https://amzn.to/3AUnxLK
GTP Range Sensor Switch Connector for above: Standard Motor Products S795 - https://amzn.to/3uRdWSk
[This message has been edited by AustinH (edited 09-16-2022).]
can I use a Getrag F23 (M86) transmission out of a 2008 cobalt?
Sure can, that is a very popular one. Although I am not sure what is involved (wiring/mounts/axles will be different); you will have to consult other threads. There is a chance you need the FIeroRog flywheel but I'm not sure.
[This message has been edited by AustinH (edited 12-18-2022).]
Is it possible to run flex-fuel on a Series 3 3800sc or do you need an aftermarket ECU to accept a flex-fuel sensor?
It is not possible. No 3800 was ever updated to include flex fuel.
Easiest and cheapest thing to do is use the stock computer, grab a buddy with HPTuners and stick a wideband O2 sensor in your exhaust. Record the wideband O2 sensor values through your EGR input. Use that to tune your fuel tables manually, then re-flash your computer to set it and forget it. Re-flash your computer every time with HPTuners when you need to change fuel type. This wideband setup would work (keep in mind you need some sort of port in your exhaust) - AEM 30-4110 - https://amzn.to/3z7zqww
Otherwise yes you would need a 100% custom computer and harness. Holly EFI systems are quite popular for that.
