Fellas, My '85 Duke just destroyed its 5th alternator belt! I keep (paying) putting on a new Gates belts and after about 100 to 175 miles, I snap another one. Grrrr β οΈ.... I have taken my poor Fiero to three separate shops to get it fixed. The three mechanics (and myself) on separate weeks, put on a new belt, and all three mechanics swear that the belt that they put on will last many, many, many, many miles. Two of the four mechanics are ASE certified. Each mechanic said that every pulley is aligned and I should have no more belts snapping off. About an hour ago, I just snapped off another one! The tow bills are expensive.π² The only thing I did not do is remove and replace the crank pulley. What else is there? Has anyone had a problem with a mis-aligned crank pulley? This is driving me absolutely crazy. HELP!!!!! Cordially, kevin
Are your brackets holding the alternator and a/c intact. Meaning not bent, cracked, or misaligned? Do you have the correct alternator, a/c, water pump on the engine? Yes, check your crank pulley. Have the new belts been over tightened during install? Do you have bad bearings in the alternator, a failing water pump, or a bad a/c compressor? Alternator and water pump should spin freely without the belt on. Compressor should also spin freely, but with a little more effort. Lots to look at, but between three mechanics all this βshouldβ have been looked over.
Belts slipping is a common Fiero problem, for one reason or another. Belts breaking is rare on most vehicles including the Fiero with stock equipment in good working order. Though I donβt own a Duke engine these days, others may be able to give more specific advice.
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 02-11-2018).]
Kevin87FieroGT, I appreciate your thoughts regarding my insane problem. Actually, my alternator is brand new, about 3 weeks old. I, and the parts department personnel checked the alternator bearings and we evaluated how the water pump spun and we determined that all is well with these rotating items. One of the mechanics also had the Fiero up a lift to see if there was a bent item,, that the new belt was not improperly replaced. Everything looked OK. Remember we are only discussing 2 rotating items: 1.) The crank pulley, the water pump combination and 2.) The alternator. It seems to me that the ONLY item that could be twisting the belt in such a manner to eventually break it, CONSISTSNTLY is a warped, twisted or bent crank pulley. I mention this only because I have not heard or seen this happen or effect other Fiero owners. So I guess I am forced to buy a '86 Duke crank pulley. As my earlier explanation have explained, my Fiero is a '85 and the replacement engine is a '86. Did Pontiac alter the crank pulley alignment just a tiny, tiny bit, so that my '85 alternator cannot be 'forced' or changed to align itself within different years? I hope a Fiero expert can answer this questions. Cordially, kevin
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 02-12-2018).]
IF pulleys are good and alt and WP are good too... Could be installed too tight.
Belt Tension and tools covered in my Cave, Serpent Belt
Likely alt and/or WP have problems and "mechanics" didn't check them. "ASE certified" often doesn't mean much. Alt can have mechanic/bearing problems or electrical problems overloading the belt. WP itself can be bad or coolant flow problems like bad Tstat, heater loop problems, crush pipe(s), etc, causing more load on the belt. See my Cave, Crushed Pipe, Heater and rest of section.
If the belt is too tight... That can wreck the bearings for either/both and break the belt.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
This may or may not be of any help? When I first purchased my GT years ago, the PO noted the only real issue with the car was the fact after a few hundred miles it would eat belts.
Long story short, after a lot of head scratching, look at this and that I finally discovered that the water pump pulley was not perfectly centered causing it to wobble a bit at high RPMs. This condition caused the belt to jump or move on the pulkey. Over time the belt gave up the ghost. Once the pulley was replaced the problem went away. The pulley was only 2 mm's off center.n
[This message has been edited by Cajun (edited 02-11-2018).]
I believe your β85 alternator is the same as for the β86. Did you check the part numbers on your alternator and water pump, to be sure they are for a β85-β86 Fieros and not some other vehicle. My guess is the mounting bracket for the alternator from a β85 should also transfer to the β86 Duke. If allβs good with those the next step is what youβre already thinking, go get a crank pulley from a junk yard duke Fiero. Not a whole lot more you can do at this point. There are plenty of Fiero duke crank pulleys out there. Maybe you can save some time and find a pulley in the Mall here on PFF. Just post a note there that you need one, lots of good folks there.
Ogre is right, ASE Certified really doesnβt mean allot. There are good and bad certified professionals in every profession. You know, as an example, some are better on Mondays and Fridays then others. The Fiero is about as basic as it gets.
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 02-11-2018).]
I remember years ago someone posting here with a similar complaint. Turned out he either had too long of a replacement bolt, or it was facing the wrong way... but what was happening is that one of the alternator mounting bolts was rubbing on the belt when everything was tightened up. I don't know how many belts he chewed through before realizing what was going on!
Thank you everyoneπ, Fellas, as I was analyzing my curios and excoriating pain of a consistent problem, I am not able to drive my favorite car, as well as having negative effects on my wallet, here are my thoughts for today. My replacement "86 engine, on my '85 SE Duke, has a groove belt. Second, i want to send everyone a picture of my severed belt, but I do not know how? Perhaps I can ask my two young kids, they can direct me to the steps. The two (2) ASE certified mechanics each said, at different weeks and at two separate cities, that the replacement belt, a Goodyear brand, was installed correctly. There was no interference with any part on the engine [no bolt touching the belt], and the car was never hit. The new alternator and water pump were carefully analyzed, seperately on a work bench, and all bearings were smooth and there was no wobble. I instructed each mechanic, that the belt MUST be on the inner groove at the water pump crank pulley. I was told that Pontiac designed the Fiero that the inner V-belt is to be used to rotate the alternator/water pump. Is that correct? It is odd that I can not find anybody who can verify the belt(s) diagram? I will try to put my new belt on the outside groove and keep everyone up to date. Keep sharing your thoughts ...... Cordially, kevin Ps. For those reading this for the first time, it's an Air conditioned car.
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 02-12-2018).]
Originally posted by kevin: i want to send everyone a picture of my severed belt, but I do not know how?
Kevin, text your pics to my phone and I will be happy to post them for you. Might be later since I am going out for a while.
By the way, I'm sure you already checked this, and I read above that you replaced the alternator, but I recently had a situation with a 2.5 L where a bent "ear" on the alternator was clipping the belt on each rotation. Just a thought...
Right before this started happening, was anything changed (and then the issue started)?
The belt picture would indicate a too narrow of a pulley or the belt dragging on something. The groove or lip on the side should not be there and is likely a sign of the cause.
Have any pictures of the belt installed or a video of the belt while running?
Hi Kevin and all, This is really baffling to me as the engine came from my Fiero. Kevin and I swapped it ourselves and didn't change any of the pulleys. I had rebuilt the engine when I got the car, but reused the previous pulleys except the water pump since the new water pump I put in came with a pulley. I did not have a belt break when I used it. Although I probably only put a few hundred miles on it, so maybe not enough to break the belt? When it first started happening to Kevin we thought it was a bad or alternator or maybe the new waterpump was faulty. But it seems both of those options didn't help. Looking through the paper work that I received with the car it had an engine replaced in late 1990s, and about 20k miles before it sat for 20 years. That replacement engine may not have been from a Fiero and could have a different crank pulley perhaps? Just a possible speculation because other than that I don't know what the cause could be.
I remember years ago someone posting here with a similar complaint. Turned out he either had too long of a replacement bolt, or it was facing the wrong way... but what was happening is that one of the alternator mounting bolts was rubbing on the belt when everything was tightened up. I don't know how many belts he chewed through before realizing what was going on!
Yeah that's my first thought as how I could see this happening. But multiple shops doing it is odd. Multiple shops not seeing the wrong pulley bring used, or a narrow pulley is odd too.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-13-2018).]
I am back in town, Thanks to all who have responded----are you stateside liv4God? Today I'm back in town, with wrenches in my hand, I'm am going to decide (finnally?) to go to the outside groove at the water pump. Before I left town, I analyzed my problem, like a Lt. Colombo, a Jim Rockford or a Kojak. [old great detective TV shows who are unfamiliar with my analogy] I realized that the belt that was leaving the crank pulley, as it was entering the alternator pulley, appeared to be ever so 'twisted'? In other words, I may have been using the incorrect inside pulley. Perhaps liv4God might have been correct in suggesting that the engine pulley from the donated car was not a Fiero, and such, that the alignment was off by just a 32bd of an inch. Therefore, after about 200 miles +|/- the belt could no longer handle the pressure of reaching the alternator pulley (after it leaves the crank pulley) and SNAP!!!π‘π΅. Then I am somewhere, away from home and comfort, having to pay for another tow charge. This has to work. I need another job so I can keep my Fiero running. Cordially, kevin
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 02-14-2018).]
I am more than a little anal when I make brackets and align pulleys. I use a few different methods, but a simple one is to bolt a piece of steel to the face of the balancer, drill a hole far enough away from the balance belt groove so you can bolt on a stack of washers and use a large washer to point to the center of the v-belt groove on the balancer. Then do the same at the alternator pulley end, and use the same (or matching) stack of washers. If the pulleys don't have the large washer in the center of the v-belt groove, you have an issue.
fieroguru, I love your ideaπ. I was hoping you might share with us with a picture of your great idea? It sounds brilliant. Show all of us (video?) where others, like myself, who have similar belt problems. We can all use your great idea! By posting such a picture(s), it'll always be on the 'Search' within Pennocks . Thank you, kevin Ps. I'll keep everyone posted as I search for an answer.
There are lots of ways to do this and I still have several tools laying from previous swaps that I will show. All of these were designed around the use of serpentine belts, but you can do the same with a V-belt setup. You might want to make the pointer end from 1/4" or 5/16" round bar or brake line as it will fit nicely in the v-belt groove.
In a few of these pictures I used steel angle, but a simple flat bar will work as well. The concept is to make a pointer reference of some kind, line it up on the harmonic balancer, then it should line up the same on the alternator, AC, water pump and idler pulleys. I use these all the time when I am making alternator, AC, water pump, and tension brackets for swaps to ensure everything remains properly aligned with a very high degree of precision
Here the pointer was made by drilling a hole in the angle and using a bolt, some nuts, a shim washer, and a fender washer.
Ideally the washer would either point to the high spot or low spot of the pulley grooves, for both the balancer and alternator. This tool wasn't designed for the LS4 balancer, but you should get the idea (and see that the alternator placement is about 1/8" off):
For the LS4 parts I am developing, I am using this alignment tool:
Here are a couple more similar tools I have uses as well:
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-15-2018).]
Fellas, I want to first thank fieroguru for coming up with the great idea in building the alignment tool. It may appear simple, but it worksπ. I did not build an exact duplicate tool, but his idea gave me another idea. I measured the distance from the engine to the crank pulley. I determined that I was using the INSIDE groove (at the crank) because it was logical that Pontiac would need an extra belt crank groove for those customers who ordered air conditioning. Pontiac needed to have an extra groove (at the crank) to add another belt to run the compressor. Logical, right? Wrong! After measuring, what I had to do was use the OUTSIDE groove (at the crank), and then use the INSIDE groove on the water pump?! Weird. I believe live4God was correct. When he and I did the engin swap, the newer '86 engine did not come from a donor Fiero. Whatever GM car this engine came from, Chevy, Buick, Olds?, was manufactured for that make and model. When live4God and I did the engine swap, to the naked eye, they look identical. The Fiero does run with a slightly misaligned pulley system. It can run this way for about 200 miles. After a while the consistent stress on the misaligned belt will make it snap. [see pictures above] The final conclusion is that I have the wrong crank pulley!!!π Would anyone have an extra crank pulley for a '85 SE 2.5 Duke? Whew...Owning a Fiero's remind me of the guy who keeps hitting himself with a hammer. He keep hitting his head because he says it feels so good when he stops. Cordially, kevin
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 02-16-2018).]
Hey Kevin, Glad to see you're narrowing down the issue and hope you will get it all sorted out. If I was still in the states I'd say bring her over and lets fix that pulley. Anyway, before I left you had wanted a few parts. I had set those aside for you at my folks place so if you still need them shoot me a pm and I'll get you in touch with them.
Hey liv4Godπ, I was pleasantly surprised to hear from you. I trust all is going well with your new position overseas. I understand that you are overwhelmed with learning about all your geographic surroundings, transportation, food, money and organizing your students assignments. Regarding my Fiero, yes it is slowly coming together, but I still need to find a '85 crank pulley. I can finagle the pulley system now, so it can run. However, until I drive over 300+ miles, without stress, I will not be satisfied with my present belt arrangement. Thank you for putting aside some of the previously discussed Fiero items. I hope you can let your folks know that I'm interested in picking them up. If you can give me ideas on how much, the parts costs, I can work my schedule around a comfortable time to meet up with them. Do you still have my phone number? Stay in touch, OK? Cordially, kevin Ps. Keep an eye out for any Fiero's over therπ
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 02-17-2018).]
I love my Fiero, but I also have a '91 Mazda B2200.
I had a similar problem on the truck shortly after installing a new alternator. Nothing worked until I replaced the alternator again. I never knew what exactly was going on, but although the alternator spun freely, something about the alternator pully was just wrong enough to snap the belt every 100 to 200 miles.
Fellas, A few days ago I purchased a new crank pulley from the Fiero Farm. The pulley on the '86 engine (Duke) I purchased was NOT for a Fiero! Hopefully this item will eliminate my snapping belt problem. I'll let everybody know the outcome when it is complete. Cordially, kevin
Huh that's rather interesting. I had a Duke that would snap belts like that too. I never did figure it out, always kept a couple of belts and the tools to fix it in the trunk. Ended up parting the car out. Had tons of electrical Gremlins. I hope the crank pulley straightens it out for you
Fellas, What a journey! π , Finally. Finally my belt stay on my Fiero and do not rest on a lonely stretch of tarmac. I was correct when I finally purchased a β85 Duke pulley from the Fiero Farm. Now there is no issues. The pulley on the engine I purchased was NOT for a Fiero! I did not see, or necessarily know, that a 1/64 th of an inch (or less) of a difference from stock is all it takes to twist a belt, ever so slightly, to kill them. I honestly thought, and so did thrree separate mechanics, who all thought the same thing, that just a fingernail thickness in difference would not be a problem. It costed me a lot of money, and trust, to learn this valuable lesson. It does make a huge difference. This is a teaching moment: When belts fly off from your Fiero, 9 times out of ten, itβs the crank pulley! Cordially, kevin
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 04-08-2018).]
