So... I got the disappointment of a lifetime. I took the car into a very good classic mechanic to have a full service, fluids, brakes etc. done... he came out in a half an hour, wiped his face and said "I'm sorry. Your car's a write-off. The Frame is rusted right through, and only God's luck is holding the engine in place. Floor's rotted too."
I can't tell you how much that hurt... He showed me, I took the pictures... but honestly, it looks... well, impossible. But, I know nothing is, sadly, I'm not rich. Not sure what to do at this point. It IS an original 1 of 2000 Indy cars... and it's special. It's my dream car. But I've never encountered this issue before, and with the mechanic telling me it's structurally unsound, scares me.
Still, I want your thoughts and opinions. I am happy to answer any and all questions. I'd like to save the car... keep it on the road for a while longer... but I need some advice. Don't even know how much this would cost to fix, if even possible. Here is a link to the pictures: https://ufile.io/k4y0a
If on a PC you with windows 10 you will have to download a RAR converter app (free).
Most of the rust that is in the pictures, can be repaired. Will probably require a good parts car. Or a good shell to swap everything over. Again it's possible if one has the time and effort. Asking another to preform the job will send it out of most price comfort zones, which is probably why the mechanic suggested the write off.
A numbered Indy is a nice car and I probably would tackle it if that was the only looming issues. I am going to tease you though and say if that your dream car, you need a bigger dream
Post the pics w/ PIP. can't help much until we see it. That Site won't even DL to many
RAR need added programs too like 7-zip Free and works w/ many formats.
Rusted floor/frame can be a write off or not.
Example: If the engine cradle has rotted then can get another cradle. Sim for other parts bolted on/into the car. But if car's "frame" (Fiero is an uni-body car even tho has plastic panels.) has rusted out too then a lot different problem.
DIY Patching floor panel(s) may be ok but If Canada inspection rules are strict like UK MOT rules then a DIY fixing car's major frame areas often won't pass.
I found Some BC Inspection rules are online but not all or can't find all data. Right now I can't find my links that have Canada rules. maybe here http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/CVS...icle_inspections.htm but think have to pay for a copy of full rules. Found inspection report but doesn't have rules to fail X part.
You might need a body/frame shop to get more answers.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I have a parts Indy, frame should be very clean. It would need a ton of work to transfer your stuff to it, but I'd be willing to give it up. I'm in Northern California.
I have a parts Indy, frame should be very clean. It would need a ton of work to transfer your stuff to it, but I'd be willing to give it up. I'm in Northern California.
That would be a very creative way to get around the problem. Worth an asterisk on the Indy registry...
Ok, well I'm not allowed to post the pictures here, according to PIP... frustrating. It says it violates the size of the pictures, but unsure how to change that. Would rather have large, clear pictures. SO: Imgur. Everyone should be able to see the pictures at this link: https://imgur.com/a/Gqkap4S
It's fixable, I've seen worse (see link), but you're going to have to strip the car down to nothing and do a LOT of fabricating and welding. The engine cradle looks too far gone, I think that would have to be replaced outright. Can't see the frame rails or where the strut towers connect to the lower rails in the pictures. I wouldn't drive the car as it is.
Damn... if you were on the coast, I'd suspect that this Fiero spent some time in the Pacific ocean. What the heck is the history of this car? Where's it from? Did you not look at it at all before you bought it?
The one you pull down the plastic is a "major" frame element of the uni-body. Damage you see likely is only the tip of that iceberg. Likely other side isn't any better. Pull both plastic rockers to see all of them. Next is not only floor rusted but lower rear frame is functionally gone. The ones showing oil filter and exhaust tip... the car's frame is rotted when the rear cradle is mounted. all are major work because affects car's strength.
Front cross member need some work but can tell much from 1 pic. UCA area is likely in bad shape because often holds a lot of crap there.
Just from the picture shown, Sadly I would write it off too. I lived in places w/ high road salt use in winter and seen many cars look good and rotten out underneath. Somewhat better now because better anti rust programs to make the cars to start w/ but still happens.
Yes, Many have "rebuilt" very rotten frames... Most are done poorly because people who did the job have no clue or simply don't care. Big problem is Uni-body front and rear of Frame areas are made to have enough strength but will be a crush zone when hit in a crash. (YT has many Fiero Crash Test videos) Many DIY and others "repairing" these areas are too weak or too strong. Either can have big problems in a crash. Even in US States w/ inspections many don't check the frames at all or quick check car isn't dropping parts. Private Shops than does Inspections in some states like NY often get very little money for each inspection. State's set inspection price, NYS (PDF) is $10 safety but Emission cost depend year of car and area, and most shops don't wast time for that.
I bought the car in Niagara region of Ontario. I did look over the car. As I am somewhat new to these, I had no idea they rusted out like this on the bottom. Scary thing is the previous owner told me he's driven the car for two years like this without issue... and scarier, is I was driving it up till today without worry. There was little, if any, indication that something could go wrong.
I guess, after 3 years of saving, I got hosed for 4 grand. Great. Young guy, not a lot of cash. I guess I should have been more careful. Makes me sick inside, really. Caveat Emptor. What BLOWS my mind is why someone would have spent all the money to repaint it, fix all the little issues, etc etc when the car is toast. Maybe they didn't know about the rust?
Not sure what to do. I would like to recoup my cost and sell it... but I don't want to just pass the buck onto someone, and have them go "WTF, I just paid X dollars for a car I can't drive!?". I guess I could sell it As Is Where Is For Parts Or Restoration... would that be fair? Probably get only 1/4 of what I paid, if not less. And to think, burned out husks of 69 Chargers go for as much. Anyone here interested in buying it?
Thanks for the second opinion. Feeling pretty shitty and stupid.
I bought the car in Niagara region of Ontario. I did look over the car. As I am somewhat new to these, I had no idea they rusted out like this on the bottom.
All cars can rust out "on the bottom", especially in any part of the country that gets considerable ice/snow and uses salt on the roads.
quote
Originally posted by Drachenblut:
What BLOWS my mind is why someone would have spent all the money to repaint it, fix all the little issues, etc etc when the car is toast. Maybe they didn't know about the rust?
There's no way the previous owner didn't know about rust that bad. Unfortunately, he totally sucked you in with the pretty packaging. That was his goal all along.
You've learned an expensive lesson, both about cars and people. Perhaps seek legal council regarding the purchase of an unsafe/dangerous car.
There's no way the previous owner didn't know about rust that bad.
Living here in the rust belt, I have known people that never look under their cars and have no idea what is down there. If the PO took it to a body shop and paid to have it look pretty, the body shop would not turn down the work. Because Fieros are built the way they are, there is a solution.... but it's time consuming and 'hands on'.
Originally posted by Drachenblut: Thanks for the second opinion. Feeling pretty shitty and stupid.
Welllll... You're not first or only one.
It sucks to give bad news to new owners too. Many have email/pm me w/ big problems over the years as well. Either cost a lot of money to fix like restoring brakes can easily cost $500+ just for parts or is a "Total" write off because has similar problems to you or worse...
Even TV shows have to write off rust out cars or cars "repaired" after a wreck because many hide very big problems can't be fix. Years ago one Show found the car to fix/upgraded was a Splice of two wreck cars and very badly done too. I think they actually drove it to the shop and had a hard time believing car didn't fall apart doing so. Was cheaper and safer to replace w/ good base car and do the story around that. (can't remember which. other shows had similar problems.)
I get the "dream car" aspect of the whole deal. Also the investments involved. I do not know the condition of the parts on the purchased Indy. Is it possible to purchase another Fiero, and make an Indy clone?
Patrick... sadly, here in Ontario, since the vehicle was privately sold, there is no guarantee whatsoever. Thus, there can be no court action taken, and it would be a waste of money to try. I got f*cked. Can't believe someone would do this to someone else, personally, I have sold vehicles in poor shape before, but been completely honest about any and all issues. Guess I'm just an honest man.
The thing is, he was driving it at the time of purchase. It was plated and insured. Which means, he had some mechanic inspect it and sign off on it being street legal to drive. That in itself is so crooked it makes me sick.
Is a few thousand dollars really enough for someone to sleep at night, knowing they could potentially cost someone their lives? I mean, what if I drove it all hunky dory, and doing 70mph on the highway, the engine falls out of the car? The thought is terrifying.
It's just as shame as this was my dream car. Now it's the biggest disappointment of my life.
Ogre, appreciate the insight. Sadly, living in a Condo, I have zero ability to do any mechanical or body work here. It would all have to be farmed out, and that is impossible. I only hope I can sell it to some 50+ dude with lots of cash who wants to restore the car and take it to shows etc. Who knows. If it gets crushed I don't want to know about it. God, how could someone let a 1 of 2000 car just... die from rust like this? I mean, had it been noticed, could it even have been fixed?
Patrick... sadly, here in Ontario, since the vehicle was privately sold, there is no guarantee whatsoever. Thus, there can be no court action taken, and it would be a waste of money to try. I got f*cked. Can't believe someone would do this to someone else, personally, I have sold vehicles in poor shape before, but been completely honest about any and all issues. Guess I'm just an honest man.
Have you brought to the attention of the previous owner that this car is toast? If he has any shred of integrity, he'd reimburse you some money. Doubtful, but you never know. Send him a link to this thread.
Actually, living in Toronto, Ontario now. Need to update my profile. Car was bought here.
Then the possibility is even greater.
Honestly, most body panels are easily swapped in a day with the most basic of hand tools and the knowledge within this forum. An interior can easily be done in a weekend. Between Pennocks Fiero Forum, The Orge, and the members here, the details are all there. Perhaps find an inexpensive Fiero in need of the great parts that you have.
I would like to see more pics. I did click on your link, but I am never interested in the clicking farther due to legal link BS. Not due to you posting it.
Again, not trying to upset in the least. Just thinking about how easy it could be do live your dream.
Originally posted by Drachenblut: I bought the car in Niagara region of Ontario. I did look over the car. As I am somewhat new to these, I had no idea they rusted out like this on the bottom. Scary thing is the previous owner told me he's driven the car for two years like this without issue... and scarier, is I was driving it up till today without worry. There was little, if any, indication that something could go wrong.
You've been driving it and took it to a mechanic for service, not certification so I'm thinking you bought it certified. In that case, there may be recourse. If you bought it as-is and have been driving on a temporary plate, then maybe not...
Exactly what I was thinking. If you bought and were driving the car, somebody had to do a safety inspection. Whether that was the seller or you that had it done, I'd be looking at suing the mechanic or calling the authorities about it. People are not expected to be aware of issues like this, that is the exact reason a certified mechanic needs to give the car his blessing before it can be plated. That person didn't do his job and you got burned.
Now unless you've got a mechanic buddy that gave you a safety with a wink and a nod, but the fact that you took it elsewhere for repair tells me you don't.
Really sad to see this- that car looks like a write-off to me
Too bad you didn't get on the www.gtfieros.com forum prior to buying the car- someone would have helped you go in the right direction.
If/when you do get another one, ask one of the local guys to go with you and take a look at common problem areas. Pretty much any car that has been winter driven here for 15+ years will be rotten...
There are several very clean 84 and 85 4 banger Fieros for sale on Kijiji right now. Putting the panels and interior on them wouldn't be a terribly hard job.
Makes far more sense than trying to repair a rusted out car in my opinion....
You could switch most of the exterior/Interior to another frame....Fierobear has a frame in N. CA......But it would be astronomical to pay someone to switch over...If you can do it yourself in a garage then it may be cost-effective......
Ogre, please stop referring to the Fiero spaceframe structure as Uni-body. The Uni-body uses exterior bodywork as a stressed component of the stucture. It is a form of monocoque construction. The Fiero does not. The Fiero uses a spaceframe with separate, unstressed exterior panels. The only commonality with Uni-body is the separate front and rear subframes.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 05-18-2018).]
Originally posted by olejoedad: Ogre, please stop referring to the Field spaceframe structure as Uni-body. The Uni-body uses exterior bodywork as a stressed component of the stucture. It is a form of monocoque construction. The Fiero does not. The Fiero uses a spaceframe with separate, unstressed exterior panels. The only commonality with Uni-body is the separate front and rear subframes.
Field? stucture? You can't be bother to check Car's name or spell check... BS nit picking Terms Does Not matter to the topic. Fiero "Spaceframe" or Space Frame depending what doc's you read is mainly Marketing term and has little to do w/ problem above because both have similar rot problems. If anything Space Frames for Fiero and Saturn and older Corvette Frames are Worse because the Body can be Perfect and still rot the steel and often ends up in many junk yards after just 5-10 years in many areas.
Many reader know Uni-body term and rotten rocker panels etc covering by plastic or not above means trouble. Just the rotten rocker frame elements above moves more or all stress to the Fiero floor and tunnel and whole car tries to stretch and twist the cabin section more and more until failure. Worse He has a rotten floor too. Tunnel metal and what's left likely has stress problems that can fracture spot welds and metal itself.
End result the car is so rotten that spent another $4k and still have problems trying to remove/fix damage parts.
Be patient....Check for someone nearer who has a Fiero they are parting out, etc......Also, check "Row 52" for what is in junk yards....I'm not sure how it would work, but you may be able to pull a deceased Fiero FRAME out of the JY to repair your car.
Row 52 shows a couple of Fieros nearer you; Mason, MI......Indianapolis, IN.......Jacksonville & Maysville, NC....Virginia Beach, VA.....Sadly, There are 2 Fieros in JYs in Canada.....In BC, that is!
The Mason, MI lot has 2....But one has been there since November, and the other since February...
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 05-18-2018).]
You have a point....But it may be worth calling and asking....Also, is there any Fiero people in the area of Mason, MI who could go check those 2 cars for this guy?
What the heck is the history of this car? Where's it from? Did you not look at it at all before you bought it?
