The space saver spares in our Fieros are 30+ years old. Most that I have seen have never been used but rubber typically degrades some over time. I am just wondering if anyone has used their spare recently and the result? IIRC they are rated for 50 mph use over a limited time but I'd be a bit uncomfortable using them in anything but an emergency. Assuming that storage factors and climate have an effect on tire life, could it be that there is any life left in these tires? Does anyone believe that they are still usable?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I would go with a big fat NO on Jimmy with that one.... guess what's the worst you can do, blown the spare, rip up the little rim and wreck the car. Not me, not to mention big brakes and no spare in ky chop... stock car has one but it's the wrong bolt pattern... came with the car and I have never tossed it out.
I was able to get a new tire for my '88 spare. Was special ordered and took a day to get it though, was less than 60 bucks mounted. I've now removed the spare from my car as it will not clear my brake upgrades. I'm working on a compartment modification and a new spare that will clear my brakes front/back when needed. I drive my cars very hard and do a lot of long trips and don't feel like sitting on the side of the road begging for help in the middle of nowhere.
Driving through Minnesota a handful of times in the last 4 years on scenic trips claimed two of my tires, that state is full of surprises.......
I read (probably on here) that hte spare is part of the front end crash protection so even if not usable, it's worth while having in there just for the protection it adds.
------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
"Are Old Spare Tires Usable?" > 6 to 8 years = Not really... > 10 years = No. And that's for all vehicles. IOW About same rule for any normal tire. If you must use old ones, derate them more then 50mph max meaning you drive at slow speeds and short distance as possible. Like have a flat on a highway go get to next exit then park or if lucky get to a tire store near by.
But If the sidewall(s) or tread is cracked and showing cord then units is total trash and do not use. Most spare only has 1 Cord layer and exposed to air etc can weaken them and if used fail very fast. (Many car and light truck tires have only 1 cord layer in the sidewall too.)
Even "hidden" Spares get Ozone and other pollution inside and out that can wreck them almost as fast as normal tires. Spares outside or worse under a vehicle get road salt etc and even the rim can rot. Most "Shop air" is contaminated w/ oil and/or water on top of polluted air to fill even new tires. Plus compact spares need 60psi that puts more stress on them over time.
Tire Rack has mounted spares and/or just the tire I think. Haven't talk to them in years. Is Not in main tire menu by car etc so call or use contact page. Go by exact tire type... T125/70D15
If you mount a spare... Should use a tire cage to set the bead and first fill like big truck tires. 60psi can hurt you if new tire has any problem for mounting.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
So the consensus is that the original spare in the Fiero is most probably trash. Mine still looks brand new and never used but I have no idea how long it will hold up under use. These spares were probably filled with nitrogen at the factory so I believe that it would have long useful life but the unanswered question is how long?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: These spares were probably filled with nitrogen at the factory so I believe that it would have long useful life but the unanswered question is how long?
Not likely. More likely filled w/ Clean Dry Air at best at whatever factory make these. (Cleaner and Drier then most Shops and DIY can even dream about.) Nitrogen cost way more money and GM doesn't spend money and most have used "shop air" or worse many times since to fill a low/"flat" spare.
I've seen normal and spares w/ a lot of water dirt oil because people use "Shop air" or small air compressors they own or local station w/ stand alone outside compressors that have little or no tank or anything else to keep out crap. Some Might have basic intake air filters to prevent wear problem in the units but little or no tanks etc to stop polluted wet air entering the tires. Small tanks, < 5gal, are often too small to block water in air in the tank in many cases. Even when they trap some water, owners often don't drain them often causing compressor problems and wet air going thru them. Them add most small systems, say < 10-15gal, don't have outlet water traps etc either. Driers big enough to do anything are too big to have on most portable compressors.
a "Spare tire", is only designed to get you TO "somewhere" to get your "normal" tire fixed. I feel if it still looks new, No Cracks, It is Probably "usable for What it was MEANT For". 10 miles or so, I don't believe it will cause a problem. I've seen some people put them on and drive for a year ! not too smart, but for a spare......
I read (probably on here) that hte spare is part of the front end crash protection so even if not usable, it's worth while having in there just for the protection it adds.
I'd like to know if the spare tire has a specific role / purpose during a crash.
OR, is the story more along the lines of: the Fiero was crash-tested with the spare, therefore crash test results without the spare in place cannot be guaranteed.
Kind of how like alcohol is contraindicated with many medicines, not necessarily because of a known incompatibility, but rather that nobody bothered to verify compatibility.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-11-2018).]
The spare might be OK, seeing as it's in a cocooned environment, but nobody would put their butt on the line to tell you it's an acceptable practice. Why would anyone spend money to prove the road safety of old tires? The only thing that could accomplish is to reduce new-tire sales at best, and an invitation for lawsuits at worst.
Basically, you're on your own to either find a replacement, or roll the dice with using it.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-11-2018).]
I’ll go ahead and be that guy. I used the factory spare tire from my car about a month back for a total distance of 30 miles, top speed was about 45mph for about five minutes or so. Seemed to do just fine. Including a panic stop because some kid fell off his bike in front of me
That being said there are a couple of things if you find yourself with no other option at least don’t mount it to the front if it was a front that popped switch it with a good rear and put the spare back there.
I am not advocating this in any manner, just stating that I have in fact used it and in my case nothing untoward happened
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: I'd like to know if the spare tire has a specific role / purpose during a crash. OR, is the story more along the lines of: the Fiero was crash-tested with the spare, therefore crash test results without the spare in place cannot be guaranteed.
You need to watch available crash test videos (several on YT) and know what "Crumple Zones" are and how their done for a given car. The Fiero videos available only shows full crash in front and rear. Fiero is ok in those tests but could likely fail in current testing done by IIHS like frontal offset/overlap tests.
Example: Do you know how just the hood is design to fail in a wreck and not get push thru the windshield?
I believe Fiero Spare Tire likely does little in a crash but Any help it does is better then just air. The tire is above and behind the front cross member in plastic tire well held by that thin rod attach to same plastic at one end. (Brake end bracket is not attach to metal.) Too bad none of the NHTSA videos open the hood after.
Is odd that owners think spare is good for safety yet many of same people put ~35# battery with whatever bucket held there by same plastic tire well. The tire and battery can quickly break the plastic and can turn cannon ball and worse short out the battery dumping 300+ amps causing a fire or an explosion. Shouldn't keep gas etc in the front for same reason but many do just that... (Gas cans in trunk have problem too. If cans leak, can open the deck lid to a fireball. Fiero trunks can get hot and many gas cans leak vapor when hot.)
I've now removed the spare from my car as it will not clear my brake upgrades. I'm working on a compartment modification and a new spare that will clear my brakes front/back when needed. I drive my cars very hard and do a lot of long trips and don't feel like sitting on the side of the road begging for help in the middle of nowhere. .
Do you need a 16" or 17" spare?
I have the LeBaron 11.25" brake rotor upgrade on my 87 GT. A Subaru 16" wheel with Firestone T115/70/16 clears the brakes and fits the Fiero wheel tub perfectly. We found a BRAND NEW T115/70R16 tire in a Chevy Sonic (but the wheel is 5x105)
I’ll go ahead and be that guy. I used the factory spare tire from my car about a month back for a total distance of 30 miles, top speed was about 45mph for about five minutes or so. Seemed to do just fine. Including a panic stop because some kid fell off his bike in front of me
That being said there are a couple of things if you find yourself with no other option at least don’t mount it to the front if it was a front that popped switch it with a good rear and put the spare back there.
I am not advocating this in any manner, just stating that I have in fact used it and in my case nothing untoward happened
If I had no other choice I would also use the old spare, but where does the flat tire go when you are on a trip and the trunk is full.? From what I can see a full size tire won't fit in the place of the spare. The only Fieros that could transport it are the few with the luggage racks on the deck. The solution might be to carry a fender cover and bungee the tire down on the deck lid.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
In my case I threw it on the deck lid, I have a god awful huge “fast and furious” wing which actually came in use as a support for it to tie down. however with most folks actually having decent paint jobs/nicer cars this becomes less of an option. I suppose that you could keep a movers blanket tucked under the spare tire for that pourpose (I have two wrench sets there now) shouldn’t take up a bunch of room and you can keep some line with it as well. That is if you haven’t relocated the battery there. Maybe store a movers blanket behind one of the seats? It’s definitely doable with some thinking
In a slightly unrelated note....have you ever seen what an unmodified Fiero with a spare looks like? Good lord it looks absolutely ridiculous!
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If I had no other choice I would also use the old spare, but where does the flat tire go when you are on a trip and the trunk is full.? From what I can see a full size tire won't fit in the place of the spare. The only Fieros that could transport it are the few with the luggage racks on the deck. The solution might be to carry a fender cover and bungee the tire down on the deck lid.
Owner's book shows full size tires doesn't fit there and use the trunk. (Get them from http://www.fieronews.net/ ) Fiero type Luggage racks work too but need more tie down then simple, often way cheap, bungee. Anything heavy can move and be a cannon ball in/thru the rear glass or windshield behind you. (New racks on SUV and most others have load limits too and some even printed on the car somewhere. Many are 100# max because of how there made and heavier make a top heavy vehicle that easily rolls.)
In Most places... Remember If you have a wreck and whatever gets loose and hurt/kill someone, you are on the hook for everything any load does in/after a crash.
I use my rack often. Heavy and/or dense loads often need all tie down points in the rack and more to carry safe even for a few miles. The rack doesn't have strength to carry much and could rip out or break tie points easily even tho a load is < 50#. Sometimes I use ropes/straps to tie to/under the lid directly. Even remove vents to get better access/clearance for them even only driving 2-3 miles to bring stuff home from HD, flea market, etc. Is a pain to do this but I have several driver cut off me off etc over the years and loads don't move.
To respond to the original question; I had an opportunity to utilize my spare last year on a road trip returning home in the middle of the night. My spare is new or was new at the time I used it. Drove over 250 miles on it at highway speeds without any problems or issues.
Originally posted by theogre: In Most places... Remember If you have a wreck and whatever gets loose and hurt/kill someone, you are on the hook for everything any load does in/after a crash.
You guys' liability insurance doesn't cover for such mistakes?
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: You guys' liability insurance doesn't cover for such mistakes?
Ever Read any Ico Policies? If they paid for crap like that.... Ico have Caps on pay out even for the best policies. Most drivers have "State Minimum" policies that won't even cover many hospital E-room cost let alone if admitted for a few days so can sue in most place. Even when they have Health Insurance... Copays etc will be a problem and likely billed to your car insurance easily reaching the Cap. Car Ico doesn't pay for criminal costs if ticketed/arrested.
If I had no other choice I would also use the old spare, but where does the flat tire go when you are on a trip and the trunk is full.? From what I can see a full size tire won't fit in the place of the spare.
I had a flat on a trip with a full trunk...
You move all the stuff you can from the trunk to the front (which is empty now). Then the flat tire has no problem fitting in the trunk along with a few other items.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-13-2018).]
Originally posted by fierosound: You move all the stuff you can from the trunk to the front (which is empty now). Then the flat tire has no problem fitting in the trunk along with a few other items.
That depend on size/shape you packed. Many things can be same or bit bigger then a full size tire and won't fit in front. Can weight more then a tire too so may not use a rack or otherwise on the deck lid either w/o a lot of tie down issues.
That depend on size/shape you packed. Many things can be same or bit bigger then a full size tire and won't fit in front. Can weight more then a tire too so may not use a rack or otherwise on the deck lid either w/o a lot of tie down issues.
I just sent four that I used to store my car on to recycling. Two were as new, no cracks, never been used. The other two were quite visibly cracked and deteriorated. As I removed the 'decent' ones they developed quite a lot of cracks.
It has made me buy a new tyre for the unused spacesaver in one of my cars. Never been used but ten years old.
Are they usable? Within certain parameters, yes! If it holds air, and the other one doesn't, it's a no-brainer. Just don't drive it like a new, good quality tire. Put it on, drive carefully at reduced speed and get the bad tire repaired or replaced ASAP!
I have the LeBaron 11.25" brake rotor upgrade on my 87 GT. A Subaru 16" wheel with Firestone T115/70/16 clears the brakes and fits the Fiero wheel tub perfectly. We found a BRAND NEW T115/70R16 tire in a Chevy Sonic (but the wheel is 5x105)
I need to go this route at some point as well. I have Archies brakes on my 87 and the regular spare will not work on it for sure.
The last time I saw my original equipment spare, I noticed steel belts starting to show through the tread and I recall having used it once in the 15 yrs I owned the car. Keep in mind the proper pressure for it is 60 psi if I recall correctly, there's no way I'd put that kind of pressure in any tire that old. The tire may look okay on the outside, but it's what you can't see that keeps it together. Just get a AAA membership as a backup plan. I recall the PT Cruiser having a suitable spare as an option.
For those with brake upgrades that interfere with the stock spare, I did see a person drive into a repair shop with their spare tire installed backwards leaving plenty of caliper clearance. Not sure if they knew that or not.
Does anyone know if that Fiero space saver tire is still being produced? Might pay to just buy a new one and remove the issue of its usefulness. I don't get stuck often but when I do its either in snow, hale, freezing cold, heavy rain, high winds, and or in a remote rural location where there is no cell service. Good thing that my Fiero doesn't get driven in winter.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Joseph Upson: The last time I saw my original equipment spare, I noticed steel belts starting to show through the tread and I recall having used it once in the 15 yrs I owned the car. Keep in mind the proper pressure for it is 60 psi if I recall correctly, there's no way I'd put that kind of pressure in any tire that old. The tire may look okay on the outside, but it's what you can't see that keeps it together. Just get a AAA membership as a backup plan. I recall the PT Cruiser having a suitable spare as an option.
Most "compact" spares like T125/70D15 and related Do Not have Steel belts. They are "4 ply" Nylon sidewall and thread. They say such on side of tire.
Yes if you see any belts on any tire, Do Not used them! Water of any kind, road salt, and more will not only attack the stuff you see but often can wick to everywhere and eat the cord, force to blow off the rubber etc where you can't see. Freezing or getting hot only makes problems worse.
Note that If you don't used 60 PSI then tire is under inflated and can fail very fast and/or perform even worse then normal when on the car doing the job is design for. Normal tires hate low pressure but the "Donuts" even more. Is a lot of why tires blow the sidewalls or looses steel belt and tread.
That being said there are a couple of things if you find yourself with no other option at least don’t mount it to the front if it was a front that popped switch it with a good rear and put the spare back there.
A non Fiero friend of mine had a flat on rear and put on his donut spare. Not sure if that was factory issue or not. After a while of steady driving he noticed smoke coming from rear of vehicle. His differential overheated because of unmatched tire size and the distance he had to travel. He said it was too hot to touch. I guess continuous differentiating was not part of the design. It was an older Jeep late 80's. It was a 4x4 so even if he had it up front he may of had the same issues plus the steering to deal with. My last 2 Jeeps had full size spares from the factory. Just thought I'd mention this for you guys with oversize tires and a donut spare.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Originally posted by Spoon: A non Fiero friend of mine had a flat on rear and put on his donut spare. Not sure if that was factory issue or not. After a while of steady driving he noticed smoke coming from rear of vehicle. His differential overheated because of unmatched tire size and the distance he had to travel. He said it was too hot to touch. I guess continuous differentiating was not part of the design. It was an older Jeep late 80's. It was a 4x4 so even if he had it up front he may of had the same issues plus the steering to deal with. My last 2 Jeeps had full size spares from the factory. Just thought I'd mention this for you guys with oversize tires and a donut spare.
Anyone w/ "posi" differential of most types can heat up or outright fail fast like that. "Car" tries to lock/bind the diff same as 1 wheel on ice for miles. I bet he's rear lost the posi at minimum. 4WD can have posi front axles too so possible can have same problem.
Most FWD and Many 4WD front axle from the factory don't have posi fronts because can affect steering and diff wear. Fiero drive train is just transplanted FWD and no "posi" from factory for this reason but can still be problems w/ taller tires. IOW Simple diffs like Fiero can have problems even fail driving w/ mismatch tires, worse if diff/trans is low on oil, even tho nothing inside should heat like above. So if you have taller tires on Fiero and others that can reduce speed and distance allowed using OE spare before you have problems. Taller tires and factory spares can cause problems for brakes (More so w/ cars w/ ABS) suspension etc. They do make bigger donuts but likely don't fit in front of Fiero or many other cars w/ same size spare.
