I was doing some reading on our local neighborhood saturns, and it turns out they have a quite simple and very tough 1.9 DOHC engine that is all aluminum (so it is REDICULOUSLY light) and revs to high heaven. Turns out it also has a great transmission.
These engines are SUPPOSED to be very simple, so I don’t think an engine swap is out of the question
How feasible does this swap sound?
I’m looking for input on also how I’d go about fitting this, and things similar to this. Would I have to run a mega squirt or could I morph the ECU from a fiero to work?
If any machining is required, what is it and how hard would it be to do?
I think the 1.9 engine has been swapped at least once... but I don't remember where.
Feasibility pretty much comes down to your skills, tools/equipment, motivation, dedication, and available funds.
Unless a swap has been completed multiple times and the early swappers took the time to document and detail how it was done, you will be forced to reinvent the wheel for your swap. This will take at a minimum fabricating engine/transmission mounts as well as reworking the shifter linkage/brackets to work in a Fiero, as well as interfacing the Saturn engine harness to the Fiero chassis.
I had a couple Saturns in my youth and loved them.
Something to know about the Saturn 1.9l is they burn oil. The oil control rings go bad and they burn a lot of oil. Just remember to top it off.
I am not sure of the weight savings on the 1.9 vs Fiero engines, but keep in mind the better Saturn engine (DOHC) only made 124hp. With some bolt ons you could get them to 150, which was decent for a 2400lb Saturn, but I am not sure how that would feel in the Fiero.
Transmissions were great, just stay out of wheel hop. In the Saturns you could get some bad wheel hop (poly transmission mounts fixed it), and you would crack the housing.
Other then wheel hop and having to top up the engine oil those were very solid powertrains.
I think the 1.9 engine has been swapped at least once... but I don't remember where.
Feasibility pretty much comes down to your skills, tools/equipment, motivation, dedication, and available funds.
Unless a swap has been completed multiple times and the early swappers took the time to document and detail how it was done, you will be forced to reinvent the wheel for your swap. This will take at a minimum fabricating engine/transmission mounts as well as reworking the shifter linkage/brackets to work in a Fiero, as well as interfacing the Saturn engine harness to the Fiero chassis.
In your last thread, you wanted to swap in an Alfa Romeo 3.0 24v 60 degree busso v6, then you wanted to consider a Cadillac Caterra DOHC V6, then you added the Quad four to your list and now a Saturn 1.9L engine is there too. None of these engines are even remotely similar in performance. I hope that I am wrong about this but this thread has the makings of being that of a troll.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
In your last thread, you wanted to swap in an Alfa Romeo 3.0 24v 60 degree busso v6, then you wanted to consider a Cadillac Caterra DOHC V6, then you added the Quad four to your list and now a Saturn 1.9L engine is there too. None of these engines are even remotely similar in performance. I hope that I am wrong about this but this thread has the makings of being that of a troll.
Maybe all these engine options being brought up by the Kid fit more into the following category.
In your last thread, you wanted to swap in an Alfa Romeo 3.0 24v 60 degree busso v6, then you wanted to consider a Cadillac Caterra DOHC V6, then you added the Quad four to your list and now a Saturn 1.9L engine is there too. None of these engines are even remotely similar in performance. I hope that I am wrong about this but this thread has the makings of being that of a troll.
Dennis, your point would be clearer if you quote the OP's request for info vs. my response to his questions.
They're not bad for an econobox drivetrain, but I wouldn't go out of my way to put one in a Fiero... it's less displacement than either Fiero engine, and less power than the V6.
I used to have a Saturn with the 1.9 liter engine. IMO, it was anemic. It was as slow as a Duke powered Fiero. I definitely wouldn't go through the trouble of an engine swap, just to have that engine.
If you want a Fiero with a peppy 4-cylinder engine, the EcoTec is a better choice. Plus you can get an EcoTec swap kit from Roger Thelin.
“In your last thread, you wanted to swap in an Alfa Romeo 3.0 24v 60 degree busso v6, then you wanted to consider a Cadillac Caterra DOHC V6, then you added the Quad four to your list and now a Saturn 1.9L engine is there too. None of these engines are even remotely similar in performance. I hope that I am wrong about this but this thread has the makings of being that of a troll.”
Ok. I see what you are getting at. But I’m trying to explore as many options as possible, and I’ve seen threads for all sorts of different builds, and I’m curious if someone might be able to point me in the right direction. I still am deciding what I want to do, as an Alfa swap is something I still want to pursue at some point.
The 1.9 I like because it’s super simple, it’s a great turbo platform, and by goodness it’s light. It weighs like nothing compared to the 2.8 or even the 2.5.
If your gonna quote me actually read more of my threads next time because only then would you understand why I want these different swaps. They all have different pluses and minuses. For example I have not brought up an engine that wasn’t all aluminum because I care about as much weight savings as possible
Something to know about the Saturn 1.9l is they burn oil. The oil control rings go bad and they burn a lot of oil. Just remember to top it off.
.
As I understand it oil drain back holes drilled in each piston will take care of that problem.
found a vid:
There is a SOHC and a DOHC, not sure which the OP is considering. The SOHC has less power than the Iron Duke. "SOHC weight: 196.74 lb DOHC weight: 220.22 lb "
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-13-2019).]
As I understand it an oil drain back hole drilled in each piston will take care of that problem.
Sounds like a five minute job.
Years ago I had a girlfriend back in the 90's who bought a Saturn SL2 brand new, never abused it, and had it serviced religiously at the dealership. With very few miles on the clock, it burnt oil like a SOB.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-13-2019).]
Years ago I had a girlfriend back in the 90's who bought a Saturn SL2 brand new, never abused it, and had it serviced religiously at the dealership. With very few miles on the clock, it burnt oil like a SOB.
Yeah you would do it on rebuild /mod for example. heh
I used to have a Saturn with the 1.9 liter engine. IMO, it was anemic. It was as slow as a Duke powered Fiero. I definitely wouldn't go through the trouble of an engine swap, just to have that engine.
I raced my 2.8 / manual Fiero vs. my dad's 1.9 DOHC / manual Saturn at the dragstrip. Both cars did the quarter mile in about 16.2 seconds.
I won twice; my dad won twice.
The Saturn trapped maybe 2 mph faster than the Fiero (88 mph rather than 86 mph), so on a longer race distance, the Saturn would win every time. The Saturn had a hard time hooking.
Both cars weigh the same; both weigh 1300 kg with me in it (truck weigh station measurements).
So, I'd say the engine is competitive with that of a 2.8 Fiero... but I agree that I wouldn't bother swapping something of that caliber.
“So, I'd say the engine is competitive with that of a 2.8 Fiero... but I agree that I wouldn't bother swapping something of that caliber.”
For some reason the quote button isn’t working ATM...
I think you guys are missing my main points though. The engine is FAR lighter than the 2.8, so already I’d have better performance. But the key is that the engine isn’t staying stock. It’s getting a full build on it with a garret t3/t4 turbo set up on it, with a goal of 310 WHP as following someone else’s build on the Saturn forums.
I love the Ecotec motor truly, but from what I’ve heard is that it has a hell of a lot more wiring and electronics to do on it versus many other motors. This swap due to it being extremely simple and quite capable of an engine should IN THEORY make the swap far less complicated and a much simpler engine to maintain, while also being unique.
Not that I’m planning on bragging I have a Saturn powered car lol
My best run in my Saturn was 15.2 back in the day (I had a 97 SC2). Basic bolt ons to get there, intake throttlebody, used the factory headers/downpipe off of a 92 and an exhaust. Oh ya and a lighter underdrive crank pulley, sure its not a dampener but I never had any issues and it made a noticeable difference. The car was lowered as well but I doubt that made any difference on the acceleration. That was a fun little car back in the late 90s I was faster then similar bolt on Civic Sis, and Intergras at lower trim then a GSR. It surprised a lot of people. I still don't think it would be that fast in a Fiero. The Saturn engines are only great for turbo if you put some forged pistons/rods in it. Unless you are looking for less then 200whp, the engines couldn't handle it in stock form.
The thing to keep in mind if you are planning to run a turbo... success and longevity is all about having a very capable ecm to control the engine as well as it being tunable. The ecotec has this, a mid 90s Saturn engine probably doesn't.
So simplicity with the ecm is kinda like a double edge sword. Yes it is simple and easy to wire, but you will likely frag the engine in short order with it.
My two cents: I had a 96 SL2 auto and I can tell you these noteable observations: 1) Engine was quite peppy for a 1.9 DOHC 2) My engine had 200k, was very well maintained but I have NEVER seen an engine get it’s oil dirty so fast! At 3000-3500 miles the oil was almost black! 3) I took the egr valve off frequently to clean the carbon off of it. 4) Early Saturns are notorious for automatic transmission problems at higher mileage. (150K +) Mine developed bizarre shifting issues so I replaced the valve body. Even made sure I got the one with the updated “sonnet valve”, which is critical for line pressure. About 20K miles later it developed the infamous Saturn “reverse slam”. And boy did it ever! That transmission had the most WICKED and diabolical reverse slam I have ever experienced. Kit
Yeah you would do it on rebuild /mod for example. heh
