Don't see too much discussion here about R-134a going away but many of us have converted from R-12 to R-134a. By 2020 R-134a will be gone and will be replaced by R-1234 that is a flammable gas. Not sure how a conversion to R-1234 will work but if it uses the same lubricant changing over might be easy. Anyone out there have any info on R-1234 conversions?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
1. USEPA Snap program lists a lot of R# as "Approved" but USDOT only allows R12 R134 and R1234yf for all vehicles. 2. USDOT Does Not allow Any vehicles w/ R12 or R134 to be converted to R1234yf because it's flammable.
Only New Cars that have R1234yf from the factory will have this. Worse, DuPont and Honeywell are the only source and factory for this scam is in China with high cost to GM etc.
R134 will be available for years because R134 vehicles are still being sold but likely not for DIY's and other unlicensed users. Is already a "Green push" to ban R134 to all retail outlets like they did in ~ 1987 w/ R12.
R1234yf might never get sold at retail because many vendors will try to make "conversion kits" etc for use by idiots w/o a clue. This is a big reason why many want to ban R134 now at retail because Idiots think adding R134 every season or every month or faster is normal.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
1. USEPA Snap program lists a lot of R# as "Approved" but USDOT only allows R12 R134 and R1234yf for all vehicles. 2. USDOT Does Not allow Any vehicles w/ R12 or R134 to be converted to R1234yf because it's flammable.
Only New Cars that have R1234yf from the factory will have this. Worse, DuPont and Honeywell are the only source and factory for this scam is in China with high cost to GM etc.
R134 will be available for years because R134 vehicles are still being sold but likely not for DIY's and other unlicensed users. Is already a "Green push" to ban R134 to all retail outlets like they did in ~ 1987 w/ R12.
R1234yf might never get sold at retail because many vendors will try to make "conversion kits" etc for use by idiots w/o a clue. This is a big reason why many want to ban R134 now at retail because Idiots think adding R134 every season or every month or faster is normal.
From what I have read R-134a will no longer be sold in 2020. I guess that we had better stock up now. R-1234 might be basically the same stuff as Envirosafe which is a petroleum based gas similar to Butane or maybe it is butane. With an explosive R-1234 system in cars , I would not want to be involved in a front end crash and can you imagine what the result would be with a Lithium Ion electric vehicle. That is a potential bomb on wheels. Sure the environment would be safe but you won't be. Typical government ignorance creates these things.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Make sure you have a large wallet for the r-1234yf. I predict that once the vehicle is out of warranty, people will not have their ac's fixed unless the price drops drastically. Last GM vehicle through the shop was $400.00, just for the refrigerant, and that was GM's cost for warranty.
I've also heard that when Chrysler first tried using R1234yf in some of their vehicles they had issues, and instead put R134a in and it worked fine (in a system designed for R1234yf).
Systems designed for R1234yf require different fittings and different equipment to handle that refrigerant, so you can forget about trying to convert your R134a equipment to service R1234yf vehicles.
------------------ More is more. Less is not enough. Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: From what I have read R-134a will no longer be sold in 2020. I guess that we had better stock up now. R-1234 might be basically the same stuff as Envirosafe which is a petroleum based gas similar to Butane or maybe it is butane. With an explosive R-1234 system in cars , I would not want to be involved in a front end crash and can you imagine what the result would be with a Lithium Ion electric vehicle. That is a potential bomb on wheels. Sure the environment would be safe but you won't be. Typical government ignorance creates these things.
Note that most newer cars use significantly less R134 and R1234yf then many cars just ~ 10 years old because of several reasons. Partly because a lot of them have Micro-channel condenser and often evaporator too. If you think Fiero AC flushing is often bad, forget about flushing new cars. It helps here because you have less R1234yf to burn. You're more likely to have gas oil or electrical fires in a wreck. Motor and trans oil will burn surprisingly easy when hits hot exhaust etc. Electrical fires are very easy too and that's ignoring E'car w/ lithium batteries. Shorted 12v Lead batteries can dump 300+ amps and why your car have Fuse Links etc but not all circuits have protection like the Starter. Many motors and other E'parts burn and never blown a fuse let alone a fuse link, max fuse, etc. Like AC/Heat blower resistor burning whole cars before fuses fry. Is why most resistors have screens and thermal fuse(s) in them now.
I haven't seen a reliable store saying R134 will be banned for retail or when. The Greenies have wanted it banned for 10+ years but EPA hasn't sets a date I've seen. (USDOT/NHTSA doesn't ban anything for retail sale and why you see all kinds of crap HL etc.)
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Systems designed for R1234yf require different fittings and different equipment to handle that refrigerant, so you can forget about trying to convert your R134a equipment to service R1234yf vehicles.
Correct. R1234yf have different port fitting for both high and low sides so R134 couplers won't fit on them.
"Legal" AC shops are required to have complete sets of equipment for R12 R134 and R1234yf so the R types won't mix w/ each other. Means most everything that "touches" refrigerant like gauges, recover systems and waste tanks. 1. Big headaches and Costs to legally dispose of mix/contaminated waste refrigerant. 2. Is why Many shops Don't work on R12 because Don't have R12 tools. Too much Time Money Space and Records to keep to meet EPA and/or State rules in many places for the few people that might come in. Same w/ R1234yf for now... Most independent shops still can't justify cost to add R1234yf tools etc. 3. Many Vehicle AC Shops have Sniffers to look for contaminated/illegal refrigerate in the system and stop work when they see it because of #1. Even if they don't do a extra test, Many Recovery systems have sniffers built in to shutdown the "box" to protect it from whatever crap in the car. Or shop might work but your going to pay more.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-07-2019).]
I've also heard that when Chrysler first tried using R1234yf in some of their vehicles they had issues, and instead put R134a in and it worked fine (in a system designed for R1234yf).
Systems designed for R1234yf require different fittings and different equipment to handle that refrigerant, so you can forget about trying to convert your R134a equipment to service R1234yf vehicles.
GM gets $7.40/gram at list price, that equals out to roughly $214/oz. Sure aftermarket with be slightly cheaper. A 10 lb canister costs the shop depending day I need it and which vendor has it, between 550-650.
dan
[This message has been edited by bonaduce (edited 08-09-2019).]
GM gets $7.40/gram at list price, that equals out to roughly $214/oz. Sure aftermarket with be slightly cheaper. A 10 lb canister costs the shop depending day I need it and which vendor has it, between 550-650.
dan
What, that's highway robbery. They are ripping us off. I just found it online at $900 for a 10 lb cannister. That $90 a pound. I can buy 30 lbs of R-134a for $125, about $4 a pound. Meanwhile I'll stock up on R-134a. I advise hoarding the stuff now.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 08-13-2019).]
R134 will be available for years because R134 vehicles are still being sold but likely not for DIY's and other unlicensed users. Is already a "Green push" to ban R134 to all retail outlets like they did in ~ 1987 w/ R12.
People didn't know that R12 wasn't banned in 1987 to the public. Maybe only the 1 lb cans were banned I'd guess because I bought a large tank (30 lb?) of it from Autozone around 9-95 (about $320 with tax) before the sunset on it. I kept it for a couple of years unused until selling it to a guy who had a shop. Never used it so I sold it. 500 bucks.
So, the patent must be up on R134 prompting this? And the take-away is to buy the tanks of it now if that's an option, like I did with R12. I found a couple of cans of R12 in my garage from my grandfather.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 08-14-2019).]
Just a heads up for Fiero owners that want to keep cool. With the outrageous and forced use of the highly flammable R-1234a (and its and exorbitant cost) I have chosen to stock up now. Just got back from Walmart and they are selling the 1 lb cans of R-134a for $4.88 Buy now or pay the outrageous cost of $90/lb for R-1234a next year. I saw a flammability test on R-1234a and it lights up like a blowtorch and that's without the oil. If you have to put that stuff in your system you might as well fill it with Butane. I just wonder what will happen after a few accidents where people will be roasted alive.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 08-17-2019).]
I read where you will have to have a certificate to buy I think over 20lb bottles of R134 but the small cans will still be available after 2020.
We have the certification documents and can purchase any refrigerant, but at this point we have about 1/2 30lb tank of R-134a and about a dozen 12oz cans on the shelf. My concern is not only about availability but about price. Do you recall what happened when the R-12 switchover was done?. The stuff went from $1 lb to about $15 lb. and eventually went to $30 lb. With $90 lb refrigerant coming our way you can rest assured that the rape artists will be at work for anyone needing R-134a. I could be wrong about this but I say buy now while R-134a is reasonable or don't complain next year. .
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Well i checked wiring first and im getting the 5 volt reference from the ecm on the top pin of the tps connector. When i do the tps sweep on the middle pin im getting .49 volts and i push the lever all the way to the bottom on the tps it goes to 4.98 so close to 5 volts. That tells me that the wiring from the ecm to the sensor is good and no shorts are present or open circuits.
We have the certification documents and can purchase any refrigerant, but at this point we have about 1/2 30lb tank of R-134a and about a dozen 12oz cans on the shelf. My concern is not only about availability but about price. Do you recall what happened when the R-12 switchover was done?. The stuff went from $1 lb to about $15 lb. and eventually went to $30 lb. With $90 lb refrigerant coming our way you can rest assured that the rape artists will be at work for anyone needing R-134a. I could be wrong about this but I say buy now while R-134a is reasonable or don't complain next year. .
I hear ya. I`m going to hit the Tractor Supply store in the next couple of months and stock up on 5.00 cans of the stuff. What gets me is that most of the auto parts stores I have been into get about 12.00 and up for the no frills cans of R134. I`m not sure whether they are just making a big profit or their stuff is better than the cheaper stuff.
Originally posted by TXGOOD: I hear ya. I`m going to hit the Tractor Supply store in the next couple of months and stock up on 5.00 cans of the stuff. What gets me is that most of the auto parts stores I have been into get about 12.00 and up for the no frills cans of R134. I`m not sure whether they are just making a big profit or their stuff is better than the cheaper stuff.
Most parts stores have higher markup for most things they sell to start with and for decades.
Then add many have DuPont Suva R134a / Chemours Freon R134a that sells at higher wholesale price then most other brands. Suva old Ads claim that many other brands often have contaminates and very possible true w/ cheap cans but nearly no-one cares.
DuPont spinoff Chemours relabeled most R types as Freon not just Freon 12 and 22. Is funny because Suva brand was to separate Freon 12/22 that still have bad press from just about anyone covering Ozone Problems. Yet R1234yf are sold under different brands as DuPont/Chemours Opteon YF and Honeywell Solstice YF.
Good New! (Not...) 8 oz can is only $69.99 at Advance Auto but only a few stores stock it. Gee Wonder Why, Not again. I'm surprise any stores have it. If any fools can buy this, is only a matter of time you find "conversion kits" for "Off Road Use Only" like most car LED "upgrades" and other crap then run on the street.
Yup, everyone is "terrified" by R1234yf Yet R134a isn't safe in a crash either but most everyone ignores that. If R134a gets too hot then can breakdown producing HF too and other problems that can hurt or kill you.
quote
Thermal Decomposition HFC-134a vapors will decompose when exposed to high temperatures from flames or electric resistance heaters. Decomposition may produce toxicand irritating compounds, such as hydrogen fluoride. The pungent odors released will irritate the nose and throat and generally force people to evacuate the area. Therefore, it is important to prevent decomposition by avoiding exposure to high temperatures.
Special protective equipment for firefighters: In the event of fire, wear self-contained breathing apparatus. Use personal protective equipment. Wear neoprene gloves during cleaning up work after a fire. Exposure to decomposition products may be a hazard to health. Hazardous decomposition products: Decomposition products are hazardous., This material can be decomposed by high temperatures (open flames, glowing metal surfaces, etc.) forming hydrofluoric acid and possibly carbonyl fluoride., These materials are toxic and irritating., Avoid contact with decomposition products
Source: DuPont R134a MSDS
Even then, Many new AC systems in cars and many other things uses less R__ then older systems because a lot of them have "micro channel" condensers and evaporators and other changes that doesn't need same amount of R__ as 5-10 years ago let alone any R12 systems. So you have less R__ to be a problem in a wreck. Example: A New Kia Soul use 19.5 oz of R134a or R1234yf (Both are listed for the current models here.) vs. 40 oz of R12 or ~ 32 oz of R134a used in Fiero and many other old cars.
Thermal Decomposition R134a gets too hot then can breakdown producing HF too and other problems that can hurt or kill you. HFC-134a vapors will decompose when exposed to high temperatures from flames or electric resistance heaters. Decomposition may produce toxicand irritating compounds, such as hydrogen fluoride. The pungent odors released will irritate the nose and throat and generally force people to evacuate the area. Therefore, it is important to prevent decomposition by avoiding exposure to high temperatures. Source: DuPont HFC-134a Properties, Uses, Storage, and Handling
I have tried to ignite R-134a with a direct flame without success. R-1234a will ignite like a flame from a propane bottle. I do not mean to imply that R-134a is not toxic if heated, just safer than R-1234a. You shouldn't inhale either.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
So Amazon has this R134a, the link says it is flammable. Is there some that is and some that isn't? https://www.amazon.com/Wost...772&s=gateway&sr=8-7 "Wostore refrigerant is flammable to open flame or spark.Read entire product label before installation. "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I have tried to ignite R-134a with a direct flame without success. R-1234a will ignite like a flame from a propane bottle. I do not mean to imply that R-134a is not toxic if heated, just safer than R-1234a. You shouldn't inhale either.
So what? Most Cars now or soon have ~20 oz R1234yf max that may burn is nothing in the short or long run. (R1234a in not the name for this product.) You have bigger problems w/ 1 to 30 gallons of fuel in a vehicle or filling up the same...
Any Gasoline leak anywhere in/after a crash can ignite or "explode" at the drop of a hat.
Gas Stations have "Pump Fires" every year as complete idiots fill vehicles and why in many places have/had Fire Codes requires Stations to have Automatic Fire Extinguishers sim to Restaurant systems for their kitchens. Many States and others have Drop this requirement Only Because this was lobbied out by Oil Co etc as cost too much. This is Why NJ still won't allow Self Service Gas plus morons spill Thousands to Millions of gallons of gas causing EPA headaches and other Environmental problems. Leaking/Spilling gas is a big part of Ground Level Ozone problems and why PA "Code Orange" days have "warnings" Not to pump gas during daytime that nearly everyone ignores.
Then add Most people use the Cheapest Gas "Cans" to store gas often near water heaters etc. then try to fill any normal tank sizes often spilling gas on everything, dumping gas on fires, and more then often suing everyone.
That's ignoring Airbags that hurt or kill people way before the Takata hype, Electrical Fires in cars for 50+ years, Bad Tires like Bridgestone/Ford a few years ago, and many other often fatal problems. Airbags killed enough kids is why many places ban kids from the front seat. All car makers now has a Warning not to put kids in front seat even if an area doesn't ban them. Is also why many current airbag setups have variable deploy bags and/or auto shut off pass side bag w/ too little or no weight on the seat.
If you have an E car of any type, the Batteries in them can be as bad or worse then Gas and R1234yf. Yet another Tesla burn last week. (Walmart is suing Tesla's Solar City too. CNN)
Even ignoring all of the above problems, Many keep Aerosols and worse In The Cabin that leaks or burst from heat, "rust," etc. without having the car crashing. Since the CFC ban, Most aerosols have 100% Butane Propane etc. as Propellant And many products are flammable or otherwise HAZMAT that are way more dangerous in close spaces. Many flammable and HAZMAT non aerosol products come in plastic containers also get stored in the cabin that leak then can cause a fire or explodes like most aftermarket fuel additives.
You don't hear about any of this on MSM not even thru the local news outlets, unless maybe someone is killed, have a video, or they can make a story to push some agenda to slam whatever like LiIon battery fires or push "Gun Control." Most MSM no longer covers R1234yf for Fire Hazard because goes against the Green Narrative they push Every Day. Same reason They never bothered to cover R134a turning toxic just getting hot because was and still is against the Narrative to "Save the Ozone."
Originally posted by 2.5: Is there some r134a that is flammable and some that isn't?
Not really. He's confusing names by calling R1234yf as R1234 or R1234a because rest of name is only a # 2 different so many don't see all names and confuse even more.
I even have trouble typing correct names so many times. I've tried to double or more checks to make sure I don't have wrong name for a given statement but errors are still possible in so many threads of R1234yf issues.
For Pure R___ right out of the tank... R134a near impossible to catch fire But is Toxic at high temp like a AC part breaks and refrigerant hits the exhaust, turbo, etc. Or car burns for any other reason(s) like say heater blower resistor full of crap. R1234yf is more easy to catch fire And is Toxic at high temp too.
But "Used" R134a and others may catch fire because they carry Oil in the system and that Oil can burn but most just say Refrigerate burned.
Be Aware Any burning vehicle will produce a lot of many Toxic compounds even cars w/o AC. Even a car w/ a boiled coolant system is often very bad news if anyone breaths the steam because Ethylene Glycol is very bad to drink or breath in. So make sure you're upwind of most all fires, steam, and fumes of any emergency or "testing" by burning both types like Dennis did.
Note: You can ignore HFC like HFC-134a in the DuPont quote above and other prefix in front of the number. Is basically just a short formula of whatever type. EPA and most others just put R or R- instead to keep charts and other docs very simple to look up R___ numbers etc. Some charts might have a second column with the formula prefix but most don't. Quick name explained, see How Do Refrigerants Get Their Name?
Assuming an empty A/C system, how many of the small cans to fill a Fiero?
Pontiac Fiero A/C system holds 40 oz of refrigerent and 8 oz of oil. That's the R12 spec using mineral oil. With R134a the system capacity should be less ( I believe around 30oz) and with the new highly explosive R-1234 even less. If you recall what happened when R-12 was use restricted several years ago, stock up on R-134 now. I'm telling you, those as*holes are getting ready to do the same price gouge thing w R-134 in 2020.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Pontiac Fiero A/C system holds 40 oz of refrigerent and 8 oz of oil. That's the R12 spec using mineral oil. With R134a the system capacity should be less ( I believe around 30oz) and with the new highly explosive R-1234 even less. If you recall what happened when R-12 was use restricted several years ago, stock up on R-134 now. I'm telling you, those as*holes are getting ready to do the same price gouge thing w R-134 in 2020.
Exactly. I’m trying to figure out how much R-134 I need per Fiero.
In short Need 3 12 oz cans. Note that you loss 1oz or more just changing the small cans. Your best option use larger cans w/ 16 to 24 oz but they won't fit standard gauge set what you really need to read low and high side pressures.
Note to that EPA requires new small to have Aerosol valve on top. You need adapters to use w/ old stinger tops.
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Pontiac Fiero A/C system holds 40 oz of refrigerent and 8 oz of oil. That's the R12 spec using mineral oil. With R134a the system capacity should be less ( I believe around 30oz) and with the new highly explosive R-1234 even less. If you recall what happened when R-12 was use restricted several years ago, stock up on R-134 now. I'm telling you, those as*holes are getting ready to do the same price gouge thing w R-134 in 2020.
"ZeroR AC Refrigerant 12 Cans - Better Than R134a - Made in USA - Natural Non Ozone Depleting
BETTER THAN R134A - This not genuine R-134a, but an R-134a Replacement. ZeroR Refrigerant is lightweight. The net weight is 6oz, but it fills your AC like 16oz of R134a! (See Conversion Chart). Lightweight also means less friction which will make your AC system last longer. • UNIVERSAL - ZeroR Refrigerant can be used in most AC systems, although the EPA has regulations stipulating what refrigerant they want you to use in each system. The chemical compound of ZeroR Refrigerant will safely bond with the compounds of R134a, R1234YF, R12 and more! • ECO FRIENDLY - R134a is harmful to the environment and is being replaced with R1234YF under EPA regulations. ZeroR AC Refrigerant is even more environmentally friendly than R1234YF! • VALUE - Not only is ZeroR Refrigerant less expensive, but on average you use 1 less can per system. • SAFE - ZeroR AC Refrigerant is flammable and so is the new EPA approved R1234YF. "
A different one: https://www.amazon.com/Case...64&s=gateway&sr=8-45 "R134A Refrigerant Replacement with Dye (12 cans) • Non-ozone depleting product and is completely safe for the environment. • These 6oz. cans are equal to 16oz. of R-134a. Use UP TO 60% LESS! • R134 Can Thread • For best results, do NOT pull a vacuum on the A/C system."
Here is a review in this one (fake review, who knows): "I have used this in my 27 year old classic. R12 system. Cool fantastic! Has been installed over 2 years with great results. In the last year have used it in my r134a work truck, as well as several relatives auto ac systems. We live in Arizona with over 100 days a year of temps over 100 degrees. I even switched out my home system to their R209 product. This is a great product safe for the environment, inexpensive, operates at half the pressure. Saves on power consumption due to lower head pressures. Saves you money. It also will blend. Be smart use this product. Save money. Used in many other countries around the world. It is very safe. The continual changing of product names and super high pressures ( like 410a ) is just craziness. If it works here in Arizona as well as it does, it will work great anywhere."
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-28-2019).]
Does this sound like bologna to you? An alternative?
Here is a review in this one (fake review, who knows): "I have used this in my 27 year old classic. R12 system. Cool fantastic! Has been installed over 2 years with great results. In the last year have used it in my r134a work truck, as well as several relatives auto ac systems. We live in Arizona with over 100 days a year of temps over 100 degrees. I even switched out my home system to their R209 product. This is a great product safe for the environment, inexpensive, operates at half the pressure. Saves on power consumption due to lower head pressures. Saves you money. It also will blend. Be smart use this product. Save money. Used in many other countries around the world. It is very safe. The continual changing of product names and super high pressures ( like 410a ) is just craziness. If it works here in Arizona as well as it does, it will work great anywhere."
Envirosafe and the R-12 replacements will cool very well but they are basically Butane. Yes they are safe for the Environment until you get a leak and manifold heat causes an explosion. The argument is that gasoline in the lines is also dangerous but why add another flammable compound to your car? Your fire insurance may also not be valid for fires caused by using Butane in your A/C lines.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by olejoedad: One of the last people i would listen to about automotive issues. The guy is a fruitcake.
You mean to tell us that you don't like his calm, quiet, pleasant and easy going demeanor?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
One of the last people i would listen to about automotive issues. The guy is a fruitcake.
Seems a bit out there personality wise, makes him hard to forget, but have you seen actual bad advice? I haven't as of yet. Though I have only bumped into maybe 6 vids of his accidentally.
In short Need 3 12 oz cans. Note that you loss 1oz or more just changing the small cans. Your best option use larger cans w/ 16 to 24 oz but they won't fit standard gauge set what you really need to read low and high side pressures.
Note to that EPA requires new small to have Aerosol valve on top. You need adapters to use w/ old stinger tops.
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Pontiac Fiero A/C system holds 40 oz of refrigerent and 8 oz of oil. That's the R12 spec using mineral oil. With R134a the system capacity should be less ( I believe around 30oz) and with the new highly explosive R-1234 even less. If you recall what happened when R-12 was use restricted several years ago, stock up on R-134 now. I'm telling you, those as*holes are getting ready to do the same price gouge thing w R-134 in 2020.
R134a = R1234yf oz in most docs from car markers. [/QUOTE]
Thanks, Ogre.
It looks like cans of 143a go for about $5/can on amazon. That’s about $0.40-0.50/oz if you buy by the case. I guess it’s time to stock up.
