It will break everything loose and collect in the fluting of the tap. Some will come out when you remove the tap, but if you flush and blow as creaky78 describes, you will be good.
But seriously... I remember Bolt 8 because on mine, I couldn't figure how to bust loose the pulley bolts, so I just left it on. Then, when it came to to remove Bolt 8, I found it was hiding there behind the pulley! I eventually got it our with a Hex bit I turned with a 1/4-inch wrench. Fortunately it wasn't super tight (or stripped)!
Bolt 8 apparently was sheared off at some time on my water pump. That's why it is missing. There's still part of it extending out of the timing cover. I'm guessing it's the same bolt as 2, 9 and 11.
I'm still waiting for the torque wrench I ordered last week. Until then, I will not be able to install the waterpump.
IMO, a torque wrench isn't necessary for a job of this sort. As a matter fact, it might even be detrimental. If it's a "click" type torque wrench, and you're relying on hearing that "click" before you stop tightening, it's very easy to screw up and over-tighten... especially if you're using a ft lb torque wrench when an in lb torque wrench would be more appropriate. You definitely don't want to over-tighten those small bolts that thread into the aluminum timing cover. It would be safe to use a 3/8" drive ratchet on all these bolts, but just go easier on the four smaller bolts. Remember, you're not tightening lug nuts or head bolts!
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
Bolt 8 apparently was sheared off at some time on my water pump. There's still part of it extending out of the timing cover.
Is there enough protruding to get ahold of it with vice-grips? If so, this would be a good time to soak it with penetrating oil (not WD-40) and try to get it out.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
#4 is the only bolt that needs sealant, right? I have this stuff for that.
Personally, I wouldn't use thread "lock" on any of the water pump bolts. I'd use anti-seize on all of them except for the one that goes into the water jacket.
To remove a stud is sometimes a tricky process. You must be very careful not to use excessive pressure so that rusty bolt or what remains of it doesn't break off in the timing cover. Soak in PB Blaster for a couple of days, then grab with vice grips as Patrick indicated, and try to unscrew it. If you tap the stud head a few times with a hammer not too hard that can help. If you are dealing with heavily rusted bolt, the key is to not use excessive force. If the stud breaks off you will have another set of problems
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Is there enough protruding to get ahold of it with vice-grips? If so, this would be a good time to soak it with penetrating oil (not WD-40) and try to get it out.
I was actually going to leave it as it is. I thought I might be causing more problems trying to get it out than just leaving it in.
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Originally posted by Patrick:
Personally, I wouldn't use thread "lock" on any of the water pump bolts. I'd use anti-seize on all of them except for the one that goes into the water jacket.
I'll only use the Locktite on bolt #4, and only use anti-seize on the bolts going in the timing cover (2, 9 and 11). And use a little oil on all other bolts.
I don't know why you'd want to use oil... but nevertheless, The Ogre should be along shortly to remind us that torque readings are thrown off unless all threads are clean and dry.
[EDIT] I re-checked page 1, and sure enough, The Ogre already commented on this. (... although I'm not 100% sure what he meant by "w/o" below.)
Bolt Torque specs, most need Clean Dry holes and bolts. Use a torque wrench w/o that is useless and can even break bolts or strip threads. Anti-seize and thread sealer is lube during install and throw out most torque specs.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-13-2024).]
Are you going to listen to a banned member or to one still in good standing?
Both JazzMan and The Ogre have warned about torque readings being affected when anything is applied to bolt threads. I hope you saw what I had earlier added to my previous post Here.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-13-2024).]
Are you going to listen to a banned member or to one still in good standing?
Well, he was banned for being an ******* , not for not knowing what he was talking about when it came to Fieros. Using a little bit of engine oil kinda makes sense. It doesn't change torque readings much and will help bolting the bolts in since they are no longer new, smooth bolts.
quote
Both JazzMan and The Ogre have warned about torque readings being affected when anything is applied to bolt threads. I hope you saw what I had earlier added to my previous post Here.
I'm planning to use slightly lower torque than stated. So at least I know I'm in the ballpark.
If you will bump the head of the bolt with a brass hammer or use a brass drift, it will help to break the bond. You can then use a few good shots of AC refrigerant on that broken bolt to help loosen it further. Place the end of the hose over the end, open the valve on the can and give it a 10-15 second shot and try to remove it. The extreme cold of the refrigerant will shrink the bolt, allowing it to come loose. Dry ice will work, too but I think in this situation, you may not have a large enough stud to be that effective.
I would suggest some plumber's pipe dope applied to the water jacket bolt. It's made for that purpose. And YES! In the machine shop, we never lubricated any fasteners that required a specific torque. All bores were chased with a thread tap to clean them and the fasteners were installed dry.
When I tighten threaded fasteners with a torque wrench, I always make sure the threads are clean and free of rust and crud. I also use a lubricant, the majority of the time anti-seize. Here's a link to an interesting article on the subject.
Waterpump installed. I torqued all large bolts to about 20-21 ft lbs, I'll recheck once the liquid sealant has dried. Torquing the smaller bolts was a lot more difficult since I really couldn't feel when my torque wrench went "click". In the end, I just tightened those by hand because I was afraid they were over tightened.
I'll now let the liquid sealant dry for 1-2 days before filling the system with water and trying to start her up. No idea if she (he? she? it?) will start up at all since she has been sitting there since I guess august last year.
Ok, the reason I applied some liguid gasket is because I read that in Jazzman's post here:
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:
Apply a good sealer to both sides of the gasket very sparingly and spread evenly. Stick the gasket to the water pump first and then the pump/gasket assembly to the block.
So I did just that. Applied some liquid gasket. I'm not sure how much "sparingly" is, but I applied about as thick of a coat as I would apply thermal paste on a CPU (if you are also a computer nerd like me, you know exactly what I mean 😁
But now I read on a few sites to never ever combine a liquid gasket with a dry gasket... 😕
Ah well. I just saw a YouTube video of a guy installing a water pump on a Chevy (and it seemed he knew what he was doing) and he did exactly what I did. So I guess that's the proper way after all.
Spray in a strong cleaner like brake cleaner. Then get in there with a small brass pick or screwdriver and gently pick out the crud. I don't believe that you will need to use a tap unless the threads are rusted. It might be a good idea to use new bolts. Maintain the proper torque and bolt tightening sequence. Important :Use a new gasket with Permatex water pump gasket sealer.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Spray in a strong cleaner like brake cleaner. Then get in there with a small brass pick or screwdriver and gently pick out the crud. I don't believe that you will need to use a tap unless the threads are rusted. It might be a good idea to use new bolts. Maintain the proper torque and bolt tightening sequence. Important :Use a new gasket with Permatex water pump gasket sealer.
Dennis, you appear to have responded to the last post of page one!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-16-2020).]
Everything is bolted back in place. I'm ready to fill her up again.
Do I absolutely need to drain all old coolant from the system? Asking because I'm lazy. Well, that and that I'm not looking forward to perhaps destroy the drain plug on the coolant pipe.
I'm not even sure how much coolant is still in there. When I tried to drain it from the petcock at the radiator, nothing came out. The only coolant coming out was when I removed the last (#4) bolt from the waterpump. And that was less than a cup or so.
Everything is bolted back in place. I'm ready to fill her up again.
Do I absolutely need to drain all old coolant from the system? Asking because I'm lazy. Well, that and that I'm not looking forward to perhaps destroy the drain plug on the coolant pipe.
I'm not even sure how much coolant is still in there. When I tried to drain it from the petcock at the radiator, nothing came out. The only coolant coming out was when I removed the last (#4) bolt from the waterpump. And that was less than a cup or so.
If the coolant looked clean that came out of the bolt hole, I would fill it back up with 50/50 mix and call it good.
I wouldn't worry too much about what little is left in the pipes. The new will dilute the old stuff out to the point it wouldn't matter, the old stuff might be ok anyway.
The Fiero should start up just fine. I've had mine sit for 2 years and it fired right up on the old gas with no stabilizer in it. IMO fuel these days is pretty good and last longer than a lot of people think. Perhaps top the tank off to mix in some fresh with old when you get a chance.
My biggest concern on starting a car that has been sitting is mouse nests. I give a good look over to make sure there are none in places that can catch fire. Exhaust, heater, etc.
1st off. you will need a tranquilizer or have a 12 pack of beer in the garage...kidding.. With assistance from a close friend, I recently replaced my " gunked up" stock water pump with one that has a metal impeller. Not an easy job but doable. Well worth doing, and flush out the entire cooling system with a cleaner ,add new hoses, thermostat if your budget can take it. My 85GT with 57,700 miles needed this new maintenance. The advice on this site and the previous posts are EXCELLENT..just follow the postings.
Put about 2 gallons of coolant in it, checked the oil and started it up. It started right up as if I have been driving it daily. No problems there fortunately. The bad news is that it's still leaking coolant quite a bit. I don't think it's leaking from the water pump. Wasn't able to check properly because I spilled a bit of coolant while filling it up so the water pump wasn't dry. I'll wait for it to dry up and start it up again.
I think it's leaking from where the outlet hose connects to the pipe. But I will check later. I'll jack the car up and start it to get a clearer view.
Often, shortly after putting together these things, you have to slightly re-tighten the hose clamps where coolant leaks between the rubber hose and the barb fitting.
Using a little bit of engine oil kinda makes sense. It doesn't change torque readings much and will help bolting the bolts in since they are no longer new, smooth bolts.
