Since no garage is doing Fiero's anymore here, I'm going to try to replace my water pump myself. Not something I'm looking forward to (since this is going to be a side-of-the-road job)...

I'm making a list of stuff I need:

• Water pump
  
• Torque wrench
  
• C-Clamp (instead of bracket for holding the timing cover in place)
  
• 3/16" hex bit (for draining the system)
  
• Torx: T30, T40, T50
  
• Anti-seize
  
• Thread sealant
  
• Gasket sealer
  
• Brake cleaner
  

Am I missing something?

Since I'm also thinking of replacing the bolts with standard hex bolts, does anyone know what sizes I need?

Sounds like you are all set to go but forgot one important item. Before you start, cut apart a large plastic leaf/trash bag. Use that big plastic sheet to cover all of the fiberglass insulation around the wheel well. Use masking tape to keep it in place. If you don't do this, be prepare to be itchy. You probably know this already but the battery needs to be removed for working space. Just take your time work carefully and if you have a bit of luck the job will go smoothly.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

BAND AIDS ! LOL

Cliff, two things I normally do to help with reassembly on car projects are:

1) Take a piece of stiff cardboard and draw the rough outline of the water pump, in this case. Make a small hole in the cardboard for each bolt at the approximate location and when you remove that bolt insert it into the cardboard template. This helps especially when bolts are the same head but different length. You can also jot a note or two on the cardboard if needed to keep things organized.

2) Take lots of pictures before taking things off (and 'in process' if needed) to record the position of the various brackets, routing of wires and hoses, etc. I didn't do that last time and ended up badgering kind Forum Members for pictures THEY had taken to salvage my operation .

John

p.s. and Thank You! for all you do to give us a place to keep Fieros on the road.

quote Originally posted by Notorio: Cliff, two things I normally do to help with reassembly on car projects are: 1) Take a piece of stiff cardboard and draw the rough outline of the water pump, in this case. Make a small hole in the cardboard for each bolt at the approximate location and when you remove that bolt insert it into the cardboard template. This helps especially when bolts are the same head but different length. You can also jot a note or two on the cardboard if needed to keep things organized. 2) Take lots of pictures before taking things off (and 'in process' if needed) to record the position of the various brackets, routing of wires and hoses, etc. I didn't do that last time and ended up badgering kind Forum Members for pictures THEY had taken to salvage my operation .

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My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

This version of the last image happens to show the one bolt that requires sealant upon re-installation.

quote Originally posted by Patrick in This thread:

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-13-2024).]

Make sure your replacement water pump does not have a plastic impeller or you may be repeating this job sooner than you thought.

Spoon

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

There is one vital piece that doesn't come with every water pump, and that is the clamp to hold the timing cover against the block. Without the clamp, you stand a chance of breaking the seal at the top left corner of the timing cover where the water jacket comes through to the pump. This can cause coolant to leak into the crankcase and you wouldnt know it until it's too late.

Here is a link with lots of information on water pump replacements that we published in our newsletter.
http://gafieroclub.org/pics...sletters/Feb2020.pdf

This is a clamp that was sold at auto parts stores and is discontinued. I and another club member just found 2 this week and purchased them.
https://www.ebay.com/p/1333381983

Before replacing the pump on my '87 GT, I read that it is a real pita. I didn't find that to be the case. Only difficulty was removing a semi stripped out torx head screw at the bottom of the pump. Note that in the photo I have installed two guide studs for installing the pump, this makes it a snap to get the pump on with no fuss. Be sure to use the clamp to hold the timing cover in place. The Gates 43092 pump comes with the clamp and has a cast iron impeller.

[This message has been edited by creaky78 (edited 05-04-2020).]

Thanks all for your advice. 😊

This is the water pump I bought on eBay some time back.







No idea if it's any good quality wise but it feels heavy and it has a metal impeller. One thing that did surprise me a bit is that the pully/impeller doesn't rotate freely. I mean, it hardly takes any force to rotate it, but it's not rotating freely. So if I spin it, the moment I release it, it stops. So it doesn't keep rotating and slowly comes to a stop, it stops instantly.

Is it supposed to do that?

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Also, I accidentally mixed coolant (it had green, put in orange - wasn't paying attention) some time ago. When draining the coolant system, does it need to be flushed in some way?

I would flush the system and refill with old style 50/50 green ethylene glycol /H2O mix. As for the friction on the water pump shaft; that's the result of the tight seal around it. that prevents leaks.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Cliff, I see that your pump didn't come with the clamp. I also noticed that in my link, the image has been removed. Here's an image of a clamp, though it isn't the cheap kind that comes with most water pumps. Our newsletter article has a picture of that one.

Here's the image that's missing in my link:

I read in another post that a C-Clamp would also work?

quote Originally posted by CoolBlue87GT here:

I did it once without the clamp because I couldn't figure out how to use it. It worked ok but maybe I was lucky. I've read some people having a bugger of a job getting the pump off and I can see the timing cover seal being broken in those circumstances.
Since then I've always used a clamp of some sort. Had to modify the supplied one (expand the cut out to clear the case)

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Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: ... wonder a clamp is necessary at all since it would require a tremendous amount of force bending the timing cover to make it come loose at the top:

You won't be bending the timing cover.
But it doesn't take much to break the seal of the timing cover gasket and create an oil leak.

Yes, V6 WP "bracket thing" above keep pressure on T-cover to save the gasket there. You might not bend the cover you see w/o that or something equiv to it but enough to F'd the casket.

Watch you Don't cut into the Timing cover etc to scrap off gasket(s). Very easy w/ aluminum parts.
Best is use spray Gasket Stripper and wait for that to loosen old casket. Then use Brake cleaner as final wash before new gasket.

Use paint or spray Permatex High Tack or equivalent w/ new gasket. Not RTV Silicone.

Bolt Torque specs, most need Clean Dry holes and bolts. Use a torque wrench w/o that is useless and can even break bolts or strip threads. Anti-seize and thread sealer is lube during install and throw out most torque specs.

When done w/ WP, empty the rest and fill w/ 2 gal equiv w/ pure coolant then add water.
If possible, fix WP, then flush, then refill same method.

Coolant is HAZMAT and regulated waste in most "Western" countries and get big fines catching dumping in sewers etc.
See my Cave, Coolant Fill

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I read in another post that a C-Clamp would also work?

I used the supplied clamp... but if a C-clamp will hold the top of the timing cover tight the whole time you're loosening the pump bolts, removing the pump, and installing the new pump... go for it.

quote Originally posted by Patrick Here: Speaking about the clamp, I have never seen an image anywhere on the 'net (including Pennock's) of one actually being used. Behold...this is where it goes! And yes, you install the clamp before you loosen any water pump bolts!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-13-2024).]

I don't think I can get the clamp here. Not even sure what it would be called in dutch. 🤔

From This thread...

quote Originally posted by PK:

Does your water pump use Torx bolts instead of hex bolts?
I was under the (perhaps incorrect) impression that Torx bolts were an 88-only thing.

Anybody? Bueller?

I actually haven't checked. Let me do that in a moment.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Yes, they are in fact hex bolts. 😁

Okay... I forget which sizes you'll need. But I'm thinking a 15 mm, 10 mm and probably a 13 mm. Please don't hold me to that, however.

I'm sure someone else knows.

Made a start today. Spent about 10 minutes removing the battery and getting the cables and EGR solenoid out of the way.

Hey, like I said, it's a start! 😁

One I thing that surprised me was that the tube from the EGR solenoid was attached to... nothing! Which is probably why I always get code 32 after a while...

Hey, Cliff, I heard there's this really great Fiero Forum where you can find out what that tube does and where it goes if you use the SEARCH FUNCTION. For the life of me, I can't remember the name, though.

Everybody forgot to tell you the most impotent thing you need on this job.......A French dictionary.......

Sacré bleu !

Ok, next step is to drain the coolant. Again, this is a side-of-the-road job so what would be the best way to do it? I know I can (try to) remove the drain plug on the passenger side coolant pipe, but I'm guessing that will start a 14 quart flow of coolant coming out that I won't be able to pause - and I don't have a 14 quart pan...

Perhaps syphon off as much as possible using a hose stuck into the thermostat housing? Hopefully that will get it below the level of the water pump? But that wouldn't get all coolant out. And since I'm pretty sure most coolant is just goo, I want to get all out.

Or drain from the radiator petcock? Will that get enough coolant out to at least replace the waterpump?

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Or drain from the radiator petcock? Will that get enough coolant out to at least replace the waterpump?

That will work for replacing the pump but not to drain the entire system. The plugs on the coolant tubes will help get the last bit of coolant drained Or you could just jack up the rear of the car a few inches, take off the thermostat housing cap, pull the thermostat and just drain from the radiator petcock in the front. That should drain most of the coolant in the system out. When refilling make sure to follow the proper refill procedure.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I agree with the above. The coolant doesn't need to be drained 100%. I suppose if you drain out a quarter or a third of it, would be enough.

I just got a 2m hose to siphon the coolant from the radiator. But when I wanted to do that, it turned out the radiator was completely empty already...

So I just unbolted the water pump and only at the last bolt very little coolant came out, maybe 200ml or so. Also turned out bolt #8 was sheared off. I can't remember if I ever had the water pump replaced but not in the last 15 years or so. So that bolt must have been sheared off for at least that long. It wasn't leaking from that spot so I think I'll leave the (remaining part of the) bolt where it is.

Getting the bolts out was a b*tch. Not because I couldn't get them out but simply because some took almost 10 minutes of ratcheting! When all the bolts were out, the water pump came loose quite easily. I just used a large screwdriver in the notch between the water pump and the timing cover and pried it loose. It took no force/effort at all.

The old water pump had a broken bearing. I could move the pulley quite a bit.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: BTW, is it okay to leave the waterpump off for a couple of days? I won't have time to work on it until at least saturday.

Shouldn't hurt anything

What's the best way to get all the gunk out of the bolt holes in the timing cover? Just use air? Or spray some WD40 in them? Or will that react with the anti-seize?

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: What's the best way to get all the gunk out of the bolt holes in the timing cover?

I don't know if it's the "best" way, but I normally use a tap to clean out gunked-up and/or corroded threads on whatever I'm working on.

I run a bottom tap into the holes, spray carb cleaner in to flush out the crud, blow the holes with compressed air and clean up the mess. Wear a face shield.

[This message has been edited by creaky78 (edited 05-09-2020).]

Won't using a tap cram all dirt in the hole?