So I have found myself with 2 88 GTs a fellow forum member alerted us to a wrecking yard that was closing down. They were crushing all of their inventory and selling it as scrap this included 8 Fieros. Unfortunately they crushed 1 of them before our forum member talked with the owner and got peoples attention. They had 2 88 GTs so I took them and they pulled out the forklift and loaded them on my trailer.
Now that I have them home safe and sound i'm trying to do inventory and figure out what car to build out.
So far
Red 5spd Sunroof No Interior except drivers door panel and carpet. Fiberglass damage/rot in rear passenger 1/4 missing rear brakes
White Automatic (i want a 5spd) Nice Interior Missing drivers door Front end collision damage Rear window defroster.
So as you can see i have some decisions to make. Do I want a sunroof or rear window defrost. Do I want to do an interior swap or an auto to manual swap Do I want to deal with the front end space frame damage or fiberglass rot.
I have enough parts to build 1 good GT I just don't know what the easiest best path forward. Im open to input and ideas.
The red 5 speed. [EDIT: But the white one looks better from here.] My pick would be NO sunroof, 5 speed, but many would disagree about the roof. You can change or save the top, just remember there are nuts at the top of the windshield holding the top on near the A pillar.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-08-2020).]
The red 5 speed. [EDIT: But the white one looks better from here.] My pick would be NO sunroof, 5 speed, but many would disagree about the roof. You can change or save the top, just remember there are nuts at the top of the windshield holding the top on near the A pillar.
Yeah last time i pulled a roof i killed the plastic on the A pillar... I could probably do it but im not sure i want to.
Update:
After looking at the VINs turns out the red one is an 87 with a Full 88 suspension swap.
There's now no doubt in my mind im going to be putting the White GT back together. It has 86k original Miles and ran in 2016. The Red isn't an 88 last ran unknown last history for it was 08 with over 110k miles.
I will be taking the trans and all of the trans parts from the Red and swapping them into the White but ill keep the Whites engine with it. More labor than a cradle swap but i think it would be worth it.
But first ill have to pull out the front end where it was stuffed and caused this car to wind up where it was.
Edit:
Actually First im going to pull the door on the red one replace the glass with one on the shelf ( door was complete minus window it was broken) because winter is coming and i don't want the insides anymore weathered.
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 11-08-2020).]
Originally posted by skywurz: ... I will be taking the trans and all of the trans parts from the Red and swapping them into the White but ill keep the Whites engine with it. More labor than a cradle swap but i think it would be worth it.
Unless the red car has an 88 engine, you'll have to source the 88 or later flywheel. The 88 is neutrally balanced, where the 87 has a balance weight cast into the back of the flywheel.
Unless the red car has an 88 engine, you'll have to source the 88 or later flywheel. The 88 is neutrally balanced, where the 87 has a balance weight cast into the back of the flywheel.
Good luck!
Thanks! this is the first I heard that there was a difference in flywheels. I will check the casting numbers after I drop the engine on the red car. I would not be surprised if they had swapped the full rear cradle from an 88 when they swapped all of the suspension... This also means I should probably run a compression check on it vs the White car. I was working on the assumption that the Red engine was a 120k engine but the White car is 86k and ran when parked.... ... .. .
Anyway slight update. I found that the Red car was originally an Illinois and Missouri car. So i went out to check for rust.... and its done the space frame is done. Maybe why they decided to swap suspension is because the original was eaten away... but yeah the space frame is rusted out in some key areas. I did not notice because it was a 5spd GT and I got tunnel vision on that.
So I pulled the door from my parts car... unfortunately the door skin is not a GT skin... also the interior panel had been open to the elements and is moldy. the door frame was also really banged up. I decided to pull the extra door shell i had on the shelf and the extra glass i had on the shelf and remove the power components from the parts car door and install them onto my spare door.
Parts Car Door.
Rebuilt door
I installed it on the car. I followed the original markings i had for window alignment and it seemed to fit just right
I hooked everything up and decided to test if the electrics work.
To my joy they did and the window rolled right up and lined up.
I decided that I wanted to see if it would start.
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 11-11-2020).]
So I took some time today with a slide hammer and a hydraulic ram and worked on the frame.
I got to the point that i decided that i should do some dry fitting and start checking how things align.
Bumper Check
Bumper Cover Check
Hood....
Hood..??!!??! #^#% It bolts up but its too far rear. It seems to lineup left to right and up and down its just about 1/4" too far to the rear and the adjustments are maxed out. im not sure how im going to go about this.
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 11-12-2020).]
Minimal update today as I spent it pulling apart the parts car. I made some ok progress on the parts car but because its getting colder wetter and darker sooner. I pulled the hood and radiator and have been comparing the parts on the red to the white so i can get the radiator back in place with condenser properly.
I am thinking that I may keep this white car an auto for awhile just until i get the paperwork fixed and some inspections done in regards to getting the paperwork fixed. Then i can go into monkeying with things like putting in a manual transmission. Unfortunately this leaves me short a radiator and plus 1 GT. The 2 radiators i have on the shelf are for manuals. I can order a new one for about $120. I think i will go that route but im not sure when I am going to pull the trigger. There is a lot to do before I need the radiator. At this point im probably going to focus on getting this Red gt pulled down to the sub frame and parts sorted and stored properly.
I crawled under the white GT today to inspect for forklift damage and found that along with the fuel line i already knew was damaged the heater line has been crushed flat the width of a the forklift fork. I know the car will start and run if I get gas into the rails. Im just a little overwhelmed as to what side to start on.
So far the TO-DO to get it to start and run and move under its own power. Steering column reinstall Gas Tank drop and clean out fuel line replace. Radiator Heater line replace.
This is the minimum list for me to be able to move this project into my garage so that i can work more comfortably.
The full list is something like
Steering column reinstall Gas Tank drop and clean out fuel line replace. +filter Exhaust (missing cat and muffler) Radiator Heater line replace. Airbox reinstall (its missing that too.) Headlight install Front wiring harness swap or repair. (the section that crosses from the drivers side to the passenger side in front of the radiator was severed. Its only 10 wires or so. Im debating on just repairing it or swapping in a different harness... however the only 87/88 harness i have is also a bit jacked... I could swap in a 85-86 harness and use one of the many many 85-86 light assemblies i have around and save myself the trouble of rebuilding the 1 set of 87/88 motors i have... ) Fluid flush Suspension inspection.
Im also torn because i have a parts car that needs to get consolidated and gone so i can move in the parts car for my wife's 85 SE project and get that consolidated and gone as well so that i can be back down to one million cars instead of this one million and 2 situation... This means working out in the cold... invalidating the need to get the 88 GT into the garage right away.. Except for the days its too cold and wet to work outside I suppose.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ first world problems.
So I have been chugging along with some things. I picked up some parts from the wrecking yard i got the cars from. I also got the paperwork from the yard for the cars!!!
I spent most of the afternoon with my family at the wrecking yard Friday. My wife helped find the paperwork for our cars plus the paperwork for a car a fellow forum member picked up. Meanwhile I pulled parts i needed from the cars left at the yard.
Saturday I worked on pulling down the Red GT more. I also tried my hand at lock smithing. I pulled apart about 5 door locks and rearranged the tumblers to make a matching lock for the replacement door. I also glued a 1/4 window back together... Im not sure if it's the best idea but will probably be ok until i want to drop money on replacements.
Today I pulled the Red GT down some more. I also painted a GT door skin i had gotten from wrecking yard. I'm not sure if the car used to be that color or if the codes i used are off. Once i get some lock parts in (i had to order new spring retainers as i broke every set i tried to remove.) I will then attach the door skin.
I finally got a side trim and secured the door skin. Its a little in at the back and a little out at the front. Im not sure how to adjust that out.
I have mostly been focused on the other gt getting in ground up. I have taken almost all of the partyand put them in a special spot for my 5spd swap. So far i have the ecu, trans, cv joint, flywheel, engine wiring harness, cables, shifter.
I think all i need left is the pedals and clutch master/slave + tube.
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 12-12-2020).]
In CA I don't think you'll be able to pass an emissions inspection with an auto->man trans swap. Their records will show that VIN is supposed to be auto. Nevertheless, I agree with keeping the car that doesn't have a serious rust problem.
In CA I don't think you'll be able to pass an emissions inspection with an auto->man trans swap. Their records will show that VIN is supposed to be auto. Nevertheless, I agree with keeping the car that doesn't have a serious rust problem.
In CA transmission type is not covered by emissions. There's no records for cars this old as far as o/e for trans. You have to decode it from the fender.
So today i put a steering column in and a steering wheel. I decided to look under it more to inspect the suspension and such. The rear sway bar rubber is totally gone . Also something else that is totally gone is the gas tank... Not sure how i missed that before. Anyway i started a new post in regards to what to do about replacing the tank
So I don't think i am going to start a new thread. But I picked up another White Wingless solid roof 88 GT with lumbar seat. This car is 5spd already but factory without AC. It doesn't have Cruze control, power mirrors, or power locks. This car has been a CA car all its life and is more or less rust free. The engine is hosed and the paint is not the best but the seats are not ripped.
At this point im debating what im going to do. I know this is only 1 of 271 GTs in 88 without AC. However I have always been of the school of "Well optioned cars" are typically most collectable. This plus the fact that the original paint is all done and the odometer is at 140k im thinking of adding options back. Also this all doesn't bode well for my original white GT as it has a good engine and a few options id like to swap. Plus the wife said i can't keep both
Id like to hear other thoughts.
Im thinking ill do an engine swap and wheel swap minimum. (I like the stock wheels on my original better) Maybe list: Door swap (for power locks and mirrors) Dash swap (one is cracked the other is not) Cruse Control Swap ( idk if i need it on the fence i also have enough spares around to do it later) Front windshield swap (this new one is shattered and i have chipped ones in the yard not sure on gluing will have to call and see if they have glass at a window place and what that costs first) AC swap ( this will be the biggest hardest PITA ever. However i do have the wiring harnesses and probably 3 sets of everything else)
The other thing I'm probably going to do is try to get the roof off for my wife's car to delete her sunroof. Do a roof swap between hers and the original GT.
I doubt adding AC is going to diminish the value of this car. I really doubt it's going to sell for a crazy amount of money if kept all stock. If it were mine I would add and do what I want with it.
[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 03-05-2021).]
Thanks spade. Im kinda in the same mind set here. Was also hoping someone might say OMG you can't do ac because xyz. Im also now 0 for 3 roofs. I was practicing on another parts car today trying to prep for possibly doing the mentioned roof swap on my wifes car.
Heres what was meant by engine is hosed
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-04-2021).]
Originally posted by Spadesluck:I doubt adding AC is going to diminish the value of this car. I really doubt it's going to sell for a crazy amount of money if kept all stock. If it were mine I would add and do what I want with it.
Thats the way i am. i do with my car what i want and don't care what other people think. Noone has ever complimented me on my radiator vent. Do i care? NO! i like it and thats all that matters.
------------------ Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.
Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
After a PM to 88 database guy turns out this was also a radio delete car. Someone has put a radio in since he had last collected data on it. This was interesting because the RPO tag is damaged and mostly unreadable.
I laid down some extra patio for this GT (actually was already in the plans for a GT) while moving the GT around the yard the engine finally seized.
I started to work getting the cradle ready for dropping.
I found some milkshake in the air cleaner. Yuck
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-14-2021).]
In CA I don't think you'll be able to pass an emissions inspection with an auto->man trans swap. Their records will show that VIN is supposed to be auto. Nevertheless, I agree with keeping the car that doesn't have a serious rust problem.
The VIN will not provide information as to transmission type.
That information is on the RPO sheet on the driver side from wheel house.
I got my original GT out of storage and to my house today.
It was supposed to rain so i decided to do what i could.
Turned out i had enough time to get the seized engine out of "the other gt" I used the 4x4 method this time and actually used the hoist to help lower the engine as my prior v6 drops went wrong.
I started looking over the engine and what the what!
Actually the previous owner told me about this briefly but was not sure what to expect.
Next i started on the "original gt" thanks to Ronald Finger and his Fiero Youtube exploits i was able to remove these with ease 22mm bolt extractor.
Had some time today. Removed some of the stuff on the original GT for the cradle drop. I just need to cut the auto trans lines and pull the coolant pipe connector.
I pulled the seized engine off of the other cradle.
I spent some time pulling the harness off of the engine. Im not sure what in doing yet.
I got up close with my wiring diagrams and confirmed the wires at c100 and c203 are missing for AC. Idk if people were being sarcastic but its a total myth that the Fiero is pre wired for everything. I have pulled enough apart now that I will say this statement is bogus.
I have an 88 5spd harness with AC in a box. I may pull that out verify its good and fix any plugs that are broken. But this then leaves me holding the bag for the in car harness. I have quite a few harnesses. One messed up one from a 88 5spd. I also have an auto 88. Im not too sure if its worth swapping or grafting at this point.
I decided i wanted to pressure wash the trans as it was caked in gunk.
A bit of high pressure carefully applied as to not force water into the transaxle and boom not perfect but a heck of a lot better.
I now see a little surface rust i need to take care of on the cradle
The other cradle does not have rust but the effort IMO out weights the gain of a cradle swap. Plus the other one is a bit more beat on the bottom.
I started working on taking the harness off the Auto cradle.
Suddenly i noticed this...
Well at least i can get to them? I was a little disappointed. However i was originally going to try to run this car as is and had not noticed this. It would have caused major issues so its good i found it now.
I did more inspecting
*Enhance*
I pulled 24 shells out and an old temperature sensor.
Yet again i had not noticed this before either. Could have been afire hazzard had i tried to run things as is.
Next i will pull the harness the rest of the way and take it into the garage. I will unbox the 5spd manual harness i have and go over it with a fine tooth comb hopefully replacing any damaged plugs with the ones from the auto harness.
I will then be cleaning rust from the cradle. Then working on pulled the good engine off of the auto cradle swapping the flex plate for a manual flywheel and installing a clutch.
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-20-2021).]
I Removed the manifold. See the top left and right studs.
The Left (or actually right side... Drivers side but right side of the photo.) was harder to get out than i thought. I got the vice grips on and after awhile broke it loose. The other not so much. I tried to use an easy out but bent it and the then the second one i tried just spun. I eventually drilled and re tapped.
The original bolt threads in all the way and the threads feel good.
I have ordered some studs to go in. I will pull the other side and redo it as well. I will also be inspecting all of my sets of manifolds and using the best ones. Figure while its out is the best time to do this. I have a belt sander i will be using to flatten and flush up the flanges. I will probably also pick up a Christmas tree bit to clean up the ports on the manifolds. After ill blast them then throw some good ol high temp paint on them.
I also inspected the clutch on the bad engine and determined it was not recently replaced so i have ordered a clutch.
The thermostat housing on the good engine is a bit rough but the one on the bad engine is really clean. I will be swapping these and while im at it removing the throttle-body heater lines.
Lastly I have pulled the Auto harness off of the good engine.
Time to pull the manual harness out of the box and start refurbishing it.
Yesterday I went out and handled the bolts. I removed the manifold. I got the vice grips on and after awhile broke it loose. The other not so much. I tried to use an easy out but bent it and the then the second one i tried just spun. I eventually drilled and re tapped.
I still break into cold sweats when I recall the hassle I went through doing this on the front bank of my '86 GT with the engine still in the car. What a freakin' nightmare!
I still break into cold sweats when I recall the hassle I went through doing this on the front bank of my '86 GT with the engine still in the car. What a freakin' nightmare!
Yeah i looked at doing it inside the car on an 86 way back in the day and was like nope its impossible.
Im also changing the spark plugs while its out to save the pain of doing the rear ones.
I'm sure you actually mean the front ones. The rear ones are easy!
I always mix that up and confuse people. Because the rear most part of the engine is the first part i see when opening the trunk in my head i consider it the front. Also because its easier to get to everything and things like the AC and Cat are "behind everything"
Went out and pulled the rest of the headers. One of the flanges fell off of the front manifold of the bad engine.
I decided i wanted to swap thermostat housings as the one on the bad motor looked cleaner. I may have to flatten it out as the flange looks tweaked.
I decided i was going to do that mod to remove the throttle body heater.
I un did all of the lines
I removed the 12pt 8mm bolt and the 10mm bolt on the sensor mount.
Then i made 1 cut.
One of the things that had bugged me about this mod was what to put back in the holes on the throttle body.
Here in CA if the tech thinks something is not hooked up smog related they will fail you. Since these are on the throttle body i didn't want the hassle.
I decided id just hook one side to the other.
I made some cuts to separate the lines and remove a bracket.
I then busted out my mini tube bender.
After a couple min i was ready to test fit. I cut the fitting off of the other line and put it in the throttle body. I then slide the tube in and then get the tube into the slot in the back and tighten down.
Test fit
Toss some paint on it and while im waiting for it to dry cut the sensor bracket off of the lines and reinstall.
I also hook up the 2 lines on the thermostat
With paint dry i now do the install
[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-24-2021).]
I decided i was going to do that mod to remove the throttle body heater.
One of the things that had bugged me about this mod was what to put back in the holes on the throttle body.
Here in CA if the tech thinks something is not hooked up smog related they will fail you. Since these are on the throttle body i didn't want the hassle.
I decided id just hook one side to the other.
I was wondering why the heck you'd bother attaching a tube to the TB in that manner. Looks goofy! However, I now understand why you did it that way... but for anyone else doing this mod, nothing needs to be attached to the TB where the coolant tubes were originally connected.
I was wondering why the heck you'd bother attaching a tube to the TB in that manner. Looks goofy! However, I now understand why you did it that way... but for anyone else doing this mod, nothing needs to be attached to the TB where the coolant tubes were originally connected.
Lol yeah. I think it will look better once in the car and the air cleaner is installed I probably could have installed some brass plugs and painted them black so they were not shinny. But this was free.
Today i removed the good engine from the auto cradle. I removed the flex plate.
I replaced the rear main seal
I may have pressed it too far? I swear there was an internal lip
I installed the flywheel. I will probably curse myself later for not resurfacing it.
Tossed the new clutch on
I got the engine over and onto the 5spd cradle
Unfortunately i was unable to get the engine and transmission to fully mate. Its all bound up. If i turn the engine with it in gear the hubs spin. It got late so i will fight it another day.
im not sure how im going to go about this.
