I want to turbo charge my currently stock V6 fiero. I dont want to go overboard though, I really only want to get 200hp out of it. I'm not interested in engine swaps or anything like that, I'm pretty much hell bent on putting a turbo on the stock V6. With that in mind, has anyone else here done that, and how hard would it be? Does anyone know where to get a turbo manifold and stuff like that? And this is my project car, I don't mind if the work "isn't worth it" or takes too much time, that's ok.
Originally posted by SomethingPickles: and how hard would it be?
Difficulty is relative to your current skills, budget, and the complexity of the project you want to undertake.
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Originally posted by SomethingPickles: Does anyone know where to get a turbo manifold and stuff like that?
In general, you don't just add a Fiero turbo manifold to cart and purchase.
The exhaust will be fitted to the specific installation. So you can buy mandrel bends and put them together into an exhaust. I relied a lot on Summit Racing for many parts, Rockauto for others.
In general, you don't just add a Fiero turbo manifold to cart and purchase.
The exhaust will be fitted to the specific installation. So you can buy mandrel bends and put them together into an exhaust. I relied a lot on Summit Racing for many parts, Rockauto for others.
Sorry, I'm not sure how to reply to the correct thing I want to, but for yours, you say your friend gave you a 3.1 liter. So did you turbo the stock 2.8 liter or a 3.1 liter with the nice stock looking top part from the original engine? I only took a glance real quick, so far, at the thread.
I just realized after looking over that ^ ^ ^ thread, that someone was obviously very jealous over Fran's car judging by all their false claims.
You see, Fran's car is an Indy Pace Car that he bought brand new.
Fran also sent the car to Don Davis Pontiac to have everything from the back glass back changed using brand new GM parts. This included, but not limited to the fastback rear body panel, quarter windows, tail lamp assemblies and the 2.8L Fiero GT crate engine. He then had a turbo system specially built for the car. He also sent the car to Autobahn Body Werks to have the custom hood hand formed. All this along with many other mods made it a one of a kind.
Fran's IPC was the first to be converted to a fastback, first to be turbocharged, first to have 16" wheels, along with a host of many other firsts.
If someone besides Fran knows more about Fran's Indy, I'm all ears.
Originally posted by SomethingPickles: Sorry, I'm not sure how to reply to the correct thing I want to, but for yours, you say your friend gave you a 3.1 liter. So did you turbo the stock 2.8 liter or a 3.1 liter with the nice stock looking top part from the original engine? I only took a glance real quick, so far, at the thread.
I have the heads and red intake from a Fiero.
My 3.1 bottom end displaces 355 cc more than that of a stock Fiero, so that just gives the car a bit more pep. But it's not a huge difference. Also I wanted the crankshaft position sensor of the 3.1, but that's not obligatory for a turbo project.
I could have done the turbo project with a Fiero 2.8 bottom end, and I imagine that the results would have been similar overall... since the bottom ends are similar.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 01-13-2021).]
I'm not here to help as I have zero knowledge on the subject. However, I'm here to encourage! I love seeing people do what they like with their cars! Hope to see a build thread for yours when you get started!
My 3.1 bottom end displaces 355 cc more than that of a stock Fiero, so that just gives the car a bit more pep. But it's not a huge difference. Also I wanted the crankshaft position sensor of the 3.1, but that's not obligatory for a turbo project.
I could have done the turbo project with a Fiero 2.8 bottom end, and I imagine that the results would have been similar overall... since the bottom ends are similar.
Ahh, alright I see what you mean. Thanks for the input! I'll definitely be looking at your thread a lot
After pre-washing the case, yes. That ain't no photoshop!
This is actually one of my big plans for my workshop, a crappy old dishwasher is a pretty good parts washer.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
Did you...really put it in the dishwasher?? This is fantastic!
I've put an engine block in the dishwasher...
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Originally posted by ericjon262:
This is actually one of my big plans for my workshop, a crappy old dishwasher is a pretty good parts washer.
And you can start it and walk away without spending hours scrubbing. With a dishwasher and the largest ultrasonic cleaner you can find, you'll never reinstall a filthy part again.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-14-2021).]
With aluminium, I would say that the usual high-pH soap works, but it can leave white corrosion on the surface, requiring extra cleanup if you're not fast at removing and drying the parts after washing.
There does exist aluminium-safe degreaser such as some variants of Simple Green, but it might make bubbles and not work in a dishwasher.
There does exist some anti-foaming stuff that kills bubbles; perhaps this could be used to make Simple Green or others work in a dishwasher. I know it works... when I was a kid, I used normal Sunlight dish detergent in the dishwasher (bubbles poured out everywhere), and my dad brought home this stuff from work that killed the bubbles.
And you can start it and walk away without spending hours scrubbing. With a dishwasher and the largest ultrasonic cleaner you can find, you'll never reinstall a filthy part again.
I want to turbo charge my currently stock V6 fiero. I dont want to go overboard though, I really only want to get 200hp out of it. I'm not interested in engine swaps or anything like that, I'm pretty much hell bent on putting a turbo on the stock V6. With that in mind, has anyone else here done that, and how hard would it be? Does anyone know where to get a turbo manifold and stuff like that? And this is my project car, I don't mind if the work "isn't worth it" or takes too much time, that's ok.
I've done it; works good for what it is. How are your welding skills? I was fresh out of a welding class at the local CC when I did my hotside. As pmbrunelle said, its more making than buying to fit a turbo.
On my first 87GT 2.8L I was looking for more power and installed a turbo. It was a Garrett T-3 turbo originally from an old 2.5L Ford Mustang. With some fabricated exhaust work it worked OK, certainly gave more power but I went on to other options rather quickly. My impression: Not the best solution, especially with cast pistons. If you keep the boost at 5-7 lbs the engine may last but if the tune is off, the engine goes lean and detonates, say goodbye to those pistons especially if they have high miles on them. My conclusion and opinion: The power increase is good, the tune very difficult to get right, gas mileage will go down and most engine swaps offer a better option.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
On my first 87GT 2.8L I was looking for more power and installed a turbo. It was a Garrett T-3 turbo originally from an old 2.5L Ford Mustang. With some fabricated exhaust work it worked OK, certainly gave more power but I went on to other options rather quickly. My impression: Not the best solution, especially with cast pistons. If you keep the boost at 5-7 lbs the engine may last but if the tune is off, the engine goes lean and detonates, say goodbye to those pistons especially if they have high miles on them. My conclusion and opinion: The power increase is good, the tune very difficult to get right, gas mileage will go down and most engine swaps offer a better option.
I agree that the tune is important, but only 7psi is a waste of time - there's just not enough cubes/airflow in a 2.8. My stock pistons have almost 120k on them now and the lightest gate spring I've ever used made 9psi. It's been running quite awhile on a 13lb spring.
I can't recommend trying this, but I added EBC last winter. Over the summer/fall, I've worked my way as high as 16, but started running into some ignition weirdness (maybe spark blowout?) Hopefully I can get that sorted when the snow melts.
[This message has been edited by Honest Don (edited 01-14-2021).]
The tune is always a key factor in any application and that should go without saying, it's not something special to the 2.8. Any turbo or nitrous build is particularly finicky when it comes to the tune.
As a long time drag racer, if you don't have the tune right you will not just lose a race, you could lose an engine regardless of it's induction system.
Originally posted by Honest Don: I agree that the tune is important, but only 7psi is a waste of time - there's just not enough cubes/airflow in a 2.8. My stock pistons have almost 120k on them now and the lightest gate spring I've ever used made 9psi. It's been running quite awhile on a 13lb spring.
Are you intercooled? Or using water injection or something similar?
I would think that a small turbo, small intercooler, and ~10psi would make for a good & safe setup.
Don, I appreciate your optimism but I consider running that much boost on stock old cast pistons risky. If you get away with it, consider yourself lucky. Cast pistons should be fine for low boost levels. If higher than 6-7 lbs a pyrometer (EGT gauge) that will warn you if you're overheating the pistons might be a good idea. What will kill them really fast is detonation and only one case at WOT may be all that you'll need and this is the result
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-14-2021).]
Nice! With relatively low boost a decent tune that should be pretty reliable. Probably not great for repeated pulls, but for getting around on the street totally fine. A friend has a simple turbo setup on an old F150 six cylinder... it's not fast or anything, but it definitely helps out on the street, and a decade+ later still runs like new even with a carb. Well, "new" in the sense the 50 year old motor doesn't run worse now than it did in 2006 when we installed it.
Don, I appreciate your optimism but I consider running that much boost on stock old cast pistons risky. If you get away with it, consider yourself lucky. Cast pistons should be fine for low boost levels. If higher than 6-7 lbs a pyrometer (EGT gauge) that will warn you if you're overheating the pistons might be a good idea. What will kill them really fast is detonation and only one case at WOT may be all that you'll need and this is the result
Ouch! Any idea what was going on when that happened? EDIT: oh, that’s not a 2.8 piston
But yeah, preignition/detonation is bad no matter what.
I don’t monitor egt yet, but I’m pretty religious about watching and logging afr. I try to stay cautious with it and timing, especially around peak torque.
(Apologies for the glare)
[This message has been edited by Honest Don (edited 01-14-2021).]
At the end of the day I control the throttle and the cops control the radios and the spike strips, I'm not gonna lose sleep wondering if my car is capable of something it will never encounter. :shrug: I'm fairly certain my XR4Ti can produce more power than the cooling system can handle, but in 15 years I've not encountered the scenario where it's a problem. Sometimes on trips to Tahoe it can get pretty warm - big pulls up big inclines will do that. I just slow down and let it cool off a bit before the next attempt to double the speed limit. It's fine.
[This message has been edited by thesameguy (edited 01-14-2021).]
The tune is always a key factor in any application and that should go without saying, it's not something special to the 2.8. Any turbo or nitrous build is particularly finicky when it comes to the tune.
As a long time drag racer, if you don't have the tune right you will not just lose a race, you could lose an engine regardless of it's induction system.
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Don, I appreciate your optimism but I consider running that much boost on stock old cast pistons risky. If you get away with it, consider yourself lucky. Cast pistons should be fine for low boost levels. If higher than 6-7 lbs a pyrometer (EGT gauge) that will warn you if you're overheating the pistons might be a good idea. What will kill them really fast is detonation and only one case at WOT may be all that you'll need and this is the result
Modern advanced engine controls have allowed traditionally "fragile" combinations to make tremendous power for what used to be considered extremely long service lives. Without detonation, amazing combinations can live. With detonation, nothing can live.
This drives home the point that if you're melting pistons, your tune is bad. Full stop.
Pistons don't melt from making power. They melt from detonation.
Originally posted by La fiera: Hmmm! Why do you have a passenger during a run? That's a least a full second of dead weight.
I wasn't trying to set a personal record on that run, I was just sharing the fun with my dad.
When I am trying to get the best time, I am alone in the car. There is no cameraman (and no video) in that situation!
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Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT: Makes up for no radio.
Radio, antenna + 2 front speakers are worth 8 lbs.
I still have the speakers in the headrests. That will be addressed when I fix up the interior; I have a pair of seat backs ready to go with cotton balls stuffed into the speaker cavities:
I also have a radio delete block-off plate which added back some minimal weight, but that's okay.
Curb weight of my Fiero (85 SE bumperpad) is presently about 2610 lbs. That's with radio delete, AC delete, spare tire delete, hardtop, crank windows, manual mirrors, turbo + water injection, and the Muncie box.
Weight will increase with bigger wheels/tires and bigger brakes, but I think the compromise will be worth it.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 01-16-2021).]
Radio, antenna + 2 front speakers are worth 8 lbs.
I also have a radio delete block-off plate which added back some minimal weight, but that's okay.
Curb weight of my Fiero (85 SE bumperpad) is presently about 2610 lbs. That's with radio delete, AC delete, spare tire delete, hardtop, crank windows, manual mirrors, turbo + water injection, and the Muncie box.
Weight will increase with bigger wheels/tires and bigger brakes, but I think the compromise will be worth it.
I doubt you are losing 8 lbs. with the radio and small speakers but lost weight is lost weight.
If you want to lose some significant weight, drill out the inner door shell.
I weighed the removed parts to come up with that 8 lb figure.
I'll leave my door beams and bumpers alone, I'm not really into weight reduction mods that adversely affect safety/comfort/appearance. I did the low-hanging fruit, but it stops there.
