Well, I just got back from Les Schwab where I had a suspension inspection and I am really frustrated. I've looked over the car as well as my experience allows but I can find no explanation for the progressively worsening handling so I decided to have a professional shop look at it before hopefully taking this car on the Coast Run. He found nothing!
The symptoms are generally poor handling. The car feels like it wanders and follows ruts and grooves much more than any of my other Fieros. The rear end feels loose especially when accelerating out of a turn. I was making a tight right hand turn recently when another car came up on me suddenly as I was merging into the lane. I accelerated quickly to gain some room and the whole rear end felt like it slid out from under me causing me to overcorrect to stay in the lane.
This car had been sitting unused for 2 or 3 years due to other unrelated issues (cracked header had to be removed and repaired) but I finally got it back on the road several weeks ago and have been driving it as a daily in-town commuter and the occasional freeway trip. The tires are beginning to show some slight checking but are still well within their service life.
I'm not sure how far he went with the inspection. It was a free inspection but he took about 40 minutes on it. He seemed knowledgeable when I spoke to him but I noted he never put the car on a lift. Maybe they were intimidated by the lifting points graphic I handed them? He raised the rear end with a floor jack and did the basic manual bearing check and then poked around under the car a bit on a creeper but never really got under it. He did mention the the rack and pinion had a slight leak but didn't think that was significant. He also mentioned that it could be something in the differential (???) and that maybe a driveline shop might be able to help. He did not drive the car except to bring it into the service bay.
I asked him about the struts ( I had already done a quick check and could find no leaks ) but he said they looked ok. I have no idea when they were installed. This car was my first Fiero and was modified by the previous owner with a 3.4L swap, and lowered with adjustable coils in the back. It's always had a stiff somewhat bumpy ride but I assume that is due to the lowering. When I asked if might still be something with struts / coils he said that they didn't do struts with coil overs there since the strut and coil are a single assembly and they didn't do that kind of work. Is that true??? I always assumed the adjustable coil over replaced the original stock coil.
All questions, comments and suggestions are welcome at this point. I just want my car back!
Car is shown in the signature below.
------------------ John Wayne as John Bernard Books in The Shootist... " I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
My rides... 1988 GT with a 3.4L V6 automatic 1987 GT stock (with added stripes) 2006 Harley Sportster 'cause I love the twisties on two wheels or four.
Since this is an 88, I'd look at the lateral links in the rear and make sure nothing has come loose especially on the rear knuckles. It sounds like the rear end is "walking". Hopefully Fieroguru chimes in since he is the expert in the 88 suspension.
Also I remember you had posted another thread regarding push-pull feelings with the AC on. I don't know if this could be related.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 09-25-2021).]
Did you check the torque on the long bolt inside the rear knuckles?
That would be my guess. I almost put my Formula through a fence at autocross one year when that bolt wasn't tightened up on one side of the car (after working on the suspension earlier in the week). I totally lost control of the car when the rear end took off after a quick left/right (or right/left) maneuver through the cones at speed.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-25-2021).]
Yes, if the car tries to self steer with the application of the throttle, then the most common cause is a loose lateral link bolt (normally the long one through the knuckle) or a bad lateral link bushing. If the rear has poly bushings in the lateral links, it normally takes a few times of tightening them as the inner sleeve is thinner than stock and compresses (and loosened up). This is part of the reason I went with rod end lateral links.
The front looks to be lowered, it the bump stops were not trimmed, you are riding around on them all the time, which would make the front end very hard and bouncy.
I took my Fiero to a les Schwab for an alignment once. They couldn't get it right.... I had just replaced everything on the front end. I had to fix the camber myself... The steering wheel still isn't straight.
Sounds like the shop just looked at the obvious things like ball joints and tie rods. What about control arm bushings? I've seen tires with a bad belt cause problems like that, even though they look good. You think it has adjustable rear coil overs? The spring will be a uniform diameter (not tapered). Maybe that will give you more to check.
OK, here are a bunch of pics I took last night. Drivers side and passenger side.
I checked the tightness and torque on all the long bolt and links. I found nothing that looked obviously wrong to me but perhaps those more experienced may spot something.
Many thanks for looking!
[This message has been edited by Rsvl-Rider (edited 09-26-2021).]
Did you check the bolts with a torque wrench set to 90 lb-ft? Look closely at the side of the steel sleeve of the bushing where it is rubbing on the side of the knuckle or the cradle tab, you want to see wear marks that show the sleeve is moving side to side vs just rotating around the bolt.
Did you check the bolts with a torque wrench set to 90 lb-ft? Look closely at the side of the steel sleeve of the bushing where it is rubbing on the side of the knuckle or the cradle tab, you want to see wear marks that show the sleeve is moving side to side vs just rotating around the bolt.
90 ft lbs? Can you please confirm?
My service manual calls for torque of 37 and 44 ft lbs for the various bolts. I confirmed that there was no more tightening on a few bolts at those settings and even loosened a couple and retorqued them.
I'll check for wear marks first chance I get.
Thanks for your help on this. Very much appreciated.
The torque specs for 88 rear suspension are as follows;
1988 REAR SUSPENSION & CRADLE
Front Cradle bolt/nut = 66 Lb/ft
Rear cradle Bolts = 76 lb/ft
Trailing arm forward = 37 lb/ft
Trailing arm rear bolt = 44 lb/ft + 90*
Lat' arms spindle bolt = 37 lb/ft + 90*
Lat' arm to frame bolt = 41 lb/ft
Strut to Spindle bolts = 140 lb/ft
Strut bracket-tower = 18 lb/ft
Strut top to bracket = 65 lb/ft
Additional; The 3 hub mounting bolts are supposed to be 62 lb/ft and the Axle nut is supposed to be 200 lb/ft (Only use NEW nuts!) The two spindle/arm bolts are torqued to a relatively low torque setting and then tightened an additional 90 DEGREES.
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 09-28-2021).]
My service manual calls for torque of 37 and 44 ft lbs for the various bolts. I confirmed that there was no more tightening on a few bolts at those settings and even loosened a couple and retorqued them.
I'll check for wear marks first chance I get.
Thanks for your help on this. Very much appreciated.
Yes, 90 ft-lbs. This is well within the allowable torque range of the M12 x 1.75 bolt.
I know this is quite obvious but I swear one of the best things you can do for any Fiero suspension is to jack up one side at a time, go underneath, push, pull & prod everything suspension related, check all rubber (or poly) and then assume nothing and tighten everything!
Scary story about Fiero "adverse" handling: I changed out my ball joints with some of Rodney's. After a few thousand miles they began to "break in" and loosen. I cinched them down tight but you have to remember they are held on with 3 10mm nuts so you cant go crazy on them. Anyways, I was on the 280 freeway trying to accelerate keep up with a Telsa when my car started to fishtail quite profusely in short order! When I got home it was necessary to change my underwear. Turns out the lower ball joint was loose and caused the wild fishtailing at anything over 70 mph.
Moral of the story.....don't assume anything and check everything! Kit
