Are OBD1 readers even available anymore? Is it worth trying to get one at all? My understanding is that they don't really give a lot of info. I use my OBD2 reader a lot, especially on my Dodge Dakota, which pops codes all the time. Last time it was P0301 (transmission issues, which actually turned out to be a defective ECM, which has been replaced) and yesterday the new ECM popped P0141 and 0161 codes (02 sensors). Just curious...
Some higher-end scanners have adapters that can read OBD1/OBD0 cars. For the Fiero, my personal favorite is the Snap-On MT2500, since it can read live data from different sensors.
I have an AutoXray 6000. It'll do OBD1 and OBD2. They are no longer manufactured or supported, but they frequently appear on ebay. They were ~$700, new.
Actron used to make scan tools, too. But I'm not seeing anything useful on ebay.
Make sure that you actually buy a scan tool, which will give you sensor data, etc., and not just a code reader. (We can read codes with a paperclip.)
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-20-2021).]
I use the app ALDLDroid. Works perfectly. $20. Gives real-time monitoring (you can display it as emulated analog gauges, digital gauges, or straight up numerical readouts) and codes. I loaded it into a cheap 7" android I mounted atop my dash with a windshield suction cup mount.
It works GREAT and looks great.
I just pair it to a bluetooth adapter (from 1320 Electronics) connected to the ALDL jack on the ECM.
I use it every day on every drive in real-time. I can monitor any and all engine parameters in the ECM while driving. The ones I typically show, however, are tach, coolant temp, intake manifold temp, spark advance, O2 sensor voltage, integrator, closed loop status and block learn mode status. I also sometimes monitor MAP, TPS voltage, injector pulse width and a few other things. When I want to check in on those I just swipe once on my Android monitor, take a peek, and then swipe back. Simple.
BTW the customer service from developer of ALDLDroid couldn't be better...he is extremely responsive to questions, often within minutes. Same with the developer of the bluetooth adapter.
We have an Actron CP-9110 OBD1 scanner with the GM module that provides very detailed scanning/code reading and recording for just about any GM vehicle to 1995. Its an older scanner and most dedicated OBD 1 scanners are no longer made but you can occasionally find them used on eBay. If you decide to buy used then should it require one, make sure that it has the GM plug in module. The Bosch OBD1300 can scan OBD1 and OBD2 ECM's/PCM's. There is also a forum member that sells a cable and CD on eBay that will enable scanning with your laptop.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 10-20-2021).]
"Code Readers" are dumb and just jump whatever pins to see error codes. May have LED/Light to show the codes w/ some car brands but that data is flashing CEL on the dash in GM and some other cars.
They made a lot of Scanner to read the data streams but most or all big companies stop that Decades ago. Like "cheap" AutoXray GM Only units scans every GM OBD1 ECM or nearly all of them costing ~ $200 in the 80's to 90's. Reddevil and others still make OBD1 scanners but can't use on all GM ECM or other car brands. Most can scan ECM that use ALDL E but not later ECM using ALDL M for data out. Reddevil has a BIN file to see 87+ Duke DIS but not others. Many others can't even connect to ALDL M.
Scanner Can help some times and useless for other problems. And I have a scanner and very rarely use it even on 87+ l4 w/ DIS. Easy way to check speedo and tach in the dash are accurate. Sometime temp gauge too but 2 senders/sensors are often in different spots and can't match numbers even when gauge works 100%. Can expose many myths too like just when ECM goes into Close Loop. (Hint: often is not as posted here and everywhere or in many books even from GM et al.)
Didn't help 87 duke when had 45 rich mix code cause by bad MAT even tho shows BLM INT pegged to trip the code. Never set a code for iffy MAT because that isn't totally dead. Even after replacing MAT the data look near identical on the scan tool so you can't tell much if anything is different. Only reason to suspect iffy MAT or wires to it when you know how they work and manifold temp gets high at idle. (Covered in my Cave, DIS Ignition) Sim to iffy ECT saying coolant is well below freezing and weather isn't and been so for days or longer. Or says coolant is hot yet car hasn't run today to get hot. (And why when have to install new plug for new ECT sensor needs soldering the wires or except this problem later.)
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Some higher-end scanners have adapters that can read OBD1/OBD0 cars. For the Fiero, my personal favorite is the Snap-On MT2500, since it can read live data from different sensors.
Some higher-end scanners have adapters that can read OBD1/OBD0 cars. For the Fiero, my personal favorite is the Snap-On MT2500, since it can read live data from different sensors.
Some higher-end scanners have adapters that can read OBD1/OBD0 cars. For the Fiero, my personal favorite is the Snap-On MT2500, since it can read live data from different sensors.
I don't know about OBD0, but my AutoXray 6000 will read "real time" (as much as possible) sensor data from OBD1/Fiero ECMs.
Note that my example that Scanners can be useless and even "lie" that X is "bad" still happens w/ new cars... Just 1 example: Please Do NOT Buy a Car with This Engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c92jNqAKiM from Scotty Kilmer
You can't trust a scanner saying X is "bad" because that is often just a side effect of the real problem(s) w/ an engine or now transmission too.
4 times in 20+ years my l4 DIS had "ignition problems" was actually EGR valve bad twice. First was old OE valve worn out, 2nd new valve spring broke in it a few months later. 1 time was crap Accel coils. 1 time was bad plug wire. And OBD1 Scanner is useless for all off them.
OBD2 scanner told a Kia had missing cylinder problem. P-code may help to narrow down but that can be ignition, injection and more. If you think Fiero V6 Front spark plugs are bad to get at... Kia V6 in some models have to pull the Intake to pull a plug or a plug/injector wire to 1 head. Got lucky removing engine trim that stop holding crap and heat on ignition and injection parts and PCM never trip the DTC again. I hate "dress up" trim for the engine itself that often cause problems like this. Plus Often that makes it hard just to add/change engine oil.
Note that my example that Scanners can be useless and even "lie" that X is "bad" still happens w/ new cars... Just 1 example: Please Do NOT Buy a Car with This Engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c92jNqAKiM from Scotty Kilmer
You can't trust a scanner saying X is "bad" because that is often just a side effect of the real problem(s) w/ an engine or now transmission too.
4 times in 20+ years my l4 DIS had "ignition problems" was actually EGR valve bad twice. First was old OE valve worn out, 2nd new valve spring broke in it a few months later. 1 time was crap Accel coils. 1 time was bad plug wire. And OBD1 Scanner is useless for all off them.
OBD2 scanner told a Kia had missing cylinder problem. P-code may help to narrow down but that can be ignition, injection and more. If you think Fiero V6 Front spark plugs are bad to get at... Kia V6 in some models have to pull the Intake to pull a plug or a plug/injector wire to 1 head. Got lucky removing engine trim that stop holding crap and heat on ignition and injection parts and PCM never trip the DTC again. I hate "dress up" trim for the engine itself that often cause problems like this. Plus Often that makes it hard just to add/change engine oil.
I use my HP Tuners scanner all the time. While it doesn't necessarily pinpoint the exact problem it will lead you in the right direction. Recently I was getting the DTC 0300 code of "random misfires". Turned out that it was just a defective ground to the ignition module. Removed the coil pack and ignition module, cleaned the mounting surface with a wire brush, applied a bit of conductive thermal grease , put everything back and added a separate ground to the mounting bracket. Problem solved. If the miss shows on one cylinder then its pretty easy to pinpoint the problem but with a random misfire its a problem with primary ignition. From what I have seen on other vehicles the random misfire problem was a bad ignition module ground as the root cause.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: It seems like there are a lot of grounding issues with the Fiero. I read about them all the time in here. So when I was putting my car back together, I actually added grounding connections to items that looked like they could be a problem if I was depending on their mechanical connection to the engine itself to act as a ground. Everything works, so I must have done something right. Thanks for the info on the scanner. BTW, I learned early on about the importance of conductive grease, working in my Dad's TV shop. It was used between high power transistors and their heat sinks. If you didn't use it, a new transistor could be toast, soon after replacement.
I use my HP Tuners scanner all the time. While it doesn't necessarily pinpoint the exact problem it will lead you in the right direction. Recently I was getting the DTC 0300 code of "random misfires". Turned out that it was just a defective ground to the ignition module. Removed the coil pack and ignition module, cleaned the mounting surface with a wire brush, applied a bit of conductive thermal grease , put everything back and added a separate ground to the mounting bracket. Problem solved. If the miss shows on one cylinder then its pretty easy to pinpoint the problem but with a random misfire its a problem with primary ignition. From what I have seen on other vehicles the random misfire problem was a bad ignition module ground as the root cause.
I mentioned earlier that I use ALDLdroid. Here's how it looks in the car.
Ernie
1320 electronics makes a number of ALDL cables. The 4.9L gets its data stream on pin M a std Fiero ALDL picks up the data stream on pin E as the ogre pointed out. What cable are you using to interface your 4.9L with ALDLdroid?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
"1320 electronics makes a number of ALDL cables. The 4.9L gets its data stream on pin M a std Fiero ALDL picks up the data stream on pin E as the ogre pointed out. What cable are you using to interface your 4.9L with ALDLdroid?"
Dennis, I'm using the 1320 Electronics 12-pin ALDL cable/bluetooth. BTW the owner of 1320 Electronics, John Wales, provides SUPERB customer service. Very responsive and helpful and generous.
------------------ '87 Fiero 4.9 5-speed
[This message has been edited by Warlordsix (edited 10-26-2021).]
⚠️ Warning: Again, Many OBD1 ECMs don't run right when scanning. First sign ECM will Idle at 1000 RPM regardless of Idle w/o scanning or likely use methods in my Cave, Idle Stop etc.
Why? ECM Data Streams forces ECM and most early PCM into "Multi Thread" operation and never made made to run like that. May not be true setup but many readers should know every x86 in PC really didn't like to run Windows and other OS w/ Multi Threading and big part of reasons why Hyper Threading and Multi Core CPU became normal but even now Many programs doesn't use Multi Threading like Many PC Games. (Side Note: Even Windows XP didn't work right w/ Multi CPU or P4 HT unless to made some changes to boot strings etc or maybe install XP-SP3 CD.)
IOW Every CPU cycles/Time in the OBD1 ECM used to output the Data Stream are cut out of Time to Run the Engine. So ECM bumps Idle and likely more to keep the Engine running.
How slow are they? Older ECM CPU (Based on 680x/650x Moto CPU) are close to same as many things barely running 1 thread like Atari 2600 and Clock Crystal is 4MHz but chip running it divides by 4 = CPU etc runs at 1MHz. Newer ECM on 87+ L4 DIS have 8MHz Cristal connected direct to CPU and don't know if runs at 8MHz or divides by 2 4 or whatever. Know that still hates scanning and bumps Idle etc the same.
So if/when you Drive when scanning don't do that all the time to replace OE Speedo Tach etc.
Later OBD2 vehicles don't have a problem because they often have way faster CPU and use "CANBUS" and scanners are just another thing on the network. ("CANBUS" quoted here because other protocols do same thing have different names but nearly everyone use CANBUS name talking about cars.)
Warlordsix, I like your whole setup! What you have done with you dash gauges is something I have been planning on doing for a while now.
edit....I commented on your setup before in another thread that you had started. I knew I had seen it before! lol
Thanks. Those white analog gauges are Omega Kustom Instruments. I like them, too. Only thing I'm missing is a fuel pressure gauge in the cockpit (I have one on the engine), but I'm figuring out a few ways I might solve that.
Dennis, I'm using the 1320 Electronics 12-pin ALDL cable/bluetooth. BTW the owner of 1320 Electronics, John Wales, provides SUPERB customer service. Very responsive and helpful and generous.
Thanks for the reply. In re-checking yes (and correcting) the overwhelming majority of most OBD1 cars came with the 12 pin ALDL connector that has the data stream on pin E. It was only on the very last OBD 1.5 ECM's that GM used the 16 pin OBDII type connector where the data stream is on pin M. My 4.9L uses the 12 pin connector.
