If I may ask, what is the brand/model of the fuse box you have mounted on that panel?
Mike had one similar to that in his parts bins, and we used it in my car. I haven't been able to find an exact replacement - most of the ones I find have LED indicator lights that are always on when there is power. Yours doesn't seem to have that issue. Thanks!
Do you have the ground side of the box hooked up to ground? Led should only turn on if the fuse blows. It seems to work, I popped one fuse to try it. Yours might just be faulty?
------------------ 10.007 @ 135.54MPH. <-- Video Best 60' 1.42 Best mph 138.82 Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
Sorry for the confusion, the unit we are using doesn't have the LED indicator lights. The replacements I was looking at seemed to indicate that the LEDs were there to let you know there was power, not a blown fuse.
If that's the case, that changes things dramatically. lol.
Was slowed down by a concussion this summer but finally got enough bits and pieces together for an update.
2 16X8 rims from 90s GTP were cleaned sanded and painted along with 2 Fiero 15x7s. This gives me similar wheels front and rear and the 16X8s have the correct 5x115 bolt pattern for my larger rear hubs. 255/50R16 drag radials will be mounted on them soon and installed on car.
16s on right/bottom, Fiero rims on Left/top
Finished the wastegate dump pipe, other than cutting tip once bumper is reinstalled.
Installed 2 new “front” 3800 valve covers with -10AN oil fill hole adapters and ran breather hoses to new catch can/breather.
Got my intercooler mounted in its final home, this is the same PT1001 intercooler I have run since I installed turbo. 1” water lines ran from 5 gallon tank which houses a Rule 2000 GPH pump, mounted in front trunk. This is same tank/pump I ran previously, but now mounted away from the heat of the engine bay. Also did not have a FMHE on last setup which was not great for street use, especially when water was being heated by exhaust as well as intercooler. 1” line run to front of car where I have mounted the Fluidyne front mount heat exchanger that I used to run with the blower intercooler. This is a FMHE designed for 2003 mustang Cobras, all aluminum, 5 row, 21.6" L x 6.45" H x 3.5" D. I created new mount tabs and had 1” nipples installed on each tank to replace the 3/4” ones that are normally on these. Also added the vent fitting off a 3800 thermostat housing to the FMHE for bleeding air from it, was able to clear the full system of air very quickly.
Can see the transmission cooler and fan mounted to front of cradle here. Not visible is the new 260 amp alternator, same DG44 style alternator that can be seen in previous posts. This alternator is 4 wire and will be enabled by the Sloppy Mechanics 4in1 harness that I installed. Harness provides excite signal to alternator, plug and play boost control solenoid and wiring to Holley, configurable 8 position dial (see below) and flex fuel sensor wiring(not used in my application).
All the Cold side plumbing was reconfigured for the new intercooler and turbo location, boost control solenoid is mounted, BOV and wastegate plumbed, new silicone vacuum hose to Fuel pressure regulator and boost gauge, 8 position rotary knob installed between window switches which will allow boost adjustment on the fly. I “broke” the factory performance shift button on the GTP shifter handle I use, it is now a momentary switch instead of a latching button, this will control the 2-step, launch retard, launch boost etc in the Terminator X Max. I was also able to test the transmission control from theTermX and with some minor tweaks to the pressure control it now shifts smoothly into reverse and drive, and does shift gears as programmed.
------------------ 10.007 @ 135.54MPH. <-- Video Best 60' 1.42 Best mph 138.82 Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
Old M90 XP Cam time - 11.425 @115.60 1.543 60'
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 10-12-2023).]
Nice progress. I'm sorry to hear about the concussion, though!
I was looking at the Terminator Max when I was first looking up ECU/TCU combos. Mike had a line on a lightly used FAST setup for the ECU, and sold me on how they are rebuildable, versus if something goes wrong in a Terminator, it's a full replacement.
Hearing how you've not hit the transmission issues we've had with the last FAST controller, I'm regretting not going with the Terminator.
What issue did you have? I haven’t truly driven the car yet, just confirmed that it shifts out of first, and I think I made it to 3rd. 4th and lock-up still to be confirmed.
I set the final drive ratio up to take into account the different number of teeth on the 4T80 reluctor and that the 4L80 is pre-diff vs post diff on the FWD trans.
In the end I set the rear gear ratio to 0.75 and that has the speedo accurate at least at low speed that I was able to test at. Might need a tweak once the car is on the road and I can check at 60mph.
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 09-14-2023).]
With the FAST TCU (made for them by a company called TCI, I think), we tried to do the same, starting with the 4L80 file and editing it to put in the right gear ratio for all the gears and final drive. It would not see VSS input when we drove it (so stuck in first). In our testing, we went as far as to jack up Mike's truck and wire his VSS across to my car, and getting it over 5mph to see if it would see the signal. It didn't.
Then for the sake of leaving no stone unturned, we loaded up the 4L60 tune, set the gears... and it saw VSS. So something with the VSS signal that the computer was expecting from a 4L80 is different than what is being sent by the 4T80 (but the same as the 4L60). Sort of like an earlier oversight of ours where we left in a Crankshaft sensor for a 52x, even though we had a 24x crank in there.
Anyhow, we then continued to kitbash the 4L60 file, we even tracked down a former engineer that worked for the company and he helped us tweak the BIN and confirm our wiring. The transmission seemed to be working, we were doing side-street driving to check the engine tune... and in less than 25 (total, not even in one day) miles the transmission started acting like it was overheating, slipping, not going forward or backward, only working in "limp home mode" after sitting for a while, and sometimes not even then. This started up after being on the road with it for only a few miles.
So we are now on another transmission controller. Limp home and first seem to be working, though we have a VSS issue again and found some wiring issues we missed because the wiring schema for the pigtail going from transmission to harness from FAST is different than the stock GM, which is what the new TCU seems to use. After we thought we fixed all the wiring issues, still have a VSS issue. So need to dig in the file again and maybe reach out to the dealer through which we bought it (he's been pretty good with post-sales support).
Something else I thought of that we ran into an issue with when trying to kitbash the 4L80 and 4L60 tunes to work on the 4T80.
The tuning software had a number of ways for the TCU to know the vehicle speed (the VSS is what feeds the speedometer in our setup, it doesn't tell the TCU how fast the car is moving). We found the default method was to use the Drive Shaft RPM Speed Input field. So we played with the setting for it till it was more accurately seeing the vehicle speed (or at least was a lot closer). We changed it from it's default (I don't recall the value right now) to "10" and it was pretty close. Probably still off a little, but we were more worried about getting it to shift correctly. Before we did that, it would not shift out of 1st at all, because the TCU was seeing the wrong speed value (at ~20 mph, it was reading 5 mph)
If you logged that your car shifted out of first, then the Terminator might read vehicle speed through another sensor point or calculation (or maybe via the VSS! ). I wanted to bring it up in case you did find that your vehicle speed was not displaying correctly.
Please keep us updated! We're still fighting to get my second transmission to behave with the second (different company) TCU, so I'm getting closer to just socking away money for the Terminator Max.
If you get your transmission to run properly, I may need to bribe you for a copy of your tune or transmission settings.
Termx Max is getting vehicle speed from the VSS signal. I posted the settings above. Because of location of Vss sensor on FWD, vs RWD transmissions (ie after diff vs before diff) and different number of teeth on the reluctor wheels, I have set the diff ratio to 0.75. This gives pcm the equivalent speed calculation to a pre-diff 4L80 and allows it to shift at the speeds I am requesting. You should be able to do something similar with yours, unless the settings are locked to pre-defined gear ratios or something. Is there somewhere I can see the software your using?
That's cool that you can use the VSS to tell the Terminator what the vehicle speed is.
Here is a link to the software we are using for the current Powertrain Control Solutions controller (which is an off the shelf software that's also branded and used by FAST TCU).
When you open the .bin, in order to see all the granular settings, in the menu bar click on "Software Setup" > "Tuning Mode" > "Advanced" (it defaults to basic everytime). The drill down menu on the left will change. To see the stuff about the speedometer and various settings the TCU can use to watch vehicle speed, expand "Hardward Setup" > "Speeds". Then double click on "Speed input selections" and "speed input pulses". Feel free to check out all the other stuff in there, too!
Picked up my Black Friday purchase today. This is based on the converter I had in the 4T65 previously. Should allow me to spool the turbo on the line, but should couple slightly better.
Drivetrain is currently out of the car so I can fix my leaking head studs and install the converter.
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 12-06-2023).]
It is a precision. They built my 4t65 converter for use with the o-ring less GM Racing input shaft. Took the data I had from that converter and made this one.
Stock 4T80 converter I could get 1800 rpm before pushing through brakes, no turbo spooling at that speed. This should go to 3000-3200 like the 4t65 one I had, but should couple a bit better at redline.
Saw an email this morning that precision has been purchased by a holding company that also owns pro-torque.
Got the drivetrain back in the car after installing the new converter, cleaning up some vacuum/coolant hoses and sealing the old engine wiring harness pass through on the fire wall. Leaking head studs were swapped out for new stock head bolts. Installed a pressure transducer on transmission line pressure port and wired that up to the Holley. Installed a new eBay Air to water intercooler to replace my leaking precision. Finished the wastegate pipe, wrapped the rest of the exhaust and put a blanket on the wastegate. Engine bay is pretty well finished up now. I will probably put an upper dog bone mount in to take some of the torque off the subframe, and brace the exhaust near the turbo to prevent cracking. Need to finish putting the interior back together, and finish the mounting the ballasts to complete the embrace racing headlight install. Going to finish idle and off idle tuning then look at getting it on dyno to do drivability and WOT.
Feels pretty good to have the car this close to complete, this summer it should hit the road for the first time since 2016.
------------------ 10.007 @ 135.54MPH. <-- Video Best 60' 1.42 Best mph 138.82 Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
Old M90 XP Cam time - 11.425 @115.60 1.543 60'
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 01-15-2024).]
Haven’t shared any pictures of the car since I started wrapping it last fall. Now that it has been seen in public, the cats out of the bag. Huge amount of work has gone into bringing this back to the street. It has been surreal driving it again after so long.
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 04-16-2024).]
Insured and registered car for the first time since 2016 this past weekend. I’ve put about 125km on it, running the 3800 turbo and 4T80 with the Holley Terminator X. Just idle and part throttle tuning right now with a 4lb spring in wastegate. Runs extremely well, shifts through all 4 gears and applies the torque converter clutch. I will try and upload some video the next time I have it out.
Super happy with the result and surprised a lot of locals.
------------------ 10.007 @ 135.54MPH. <-- Video Best 60' 1.42 Best mph 138.82 Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
I can't wait to see the numbers you put down with it at the track. Hopefully I'll be able to see it in person sometime. Maybe at the 45th Fiero Anniversary!
Not sure I’ll take it back to the track. It’s a lot of stuff to buy/update to make it legal for 10.0 again. I’ll run some airport 1/8 mile events, the local 100’ race and enjoy it on the street. Unless I think it is going to run a 9, I don’t see going back to track. With the extra 150lbs I’ve added, I’m not sure a 9 is possible.
Today my son and I took the car for an excursion. Street tires installed and headed 85km (50 miles) to a no-prep event at a local airport.
Wife and daughter brought the drag radials and supplies out in the truck and helped run the car for the day.
Surface was less than ideal(see pic) but still had a pile of fun. Made 4 passes starting with street boost and turning it up from there. 60’ times were weak as I could only launch on 1-2 psi, and then let the turbo come in from there. I tried to launch on 2 step one pass and that resulted in lots of tire smoke and my slowest pass of the day.
Run 1 - 15 psi (how I drive on street) 2psi launch, 15psi at 1.56 seconds. 1.90 60’ and 7.46 @96.86 mph 1/8th.
Last pass (video) ~23psi (haven’t pulled log yet) don’t think I had any boost at launch. 1.93 60’ 7.28 @ 102.81 mph 1/8th.
For reference on a prepped track at lighter weight with old trans setup, I ran 1.4x 60’ times and 6.3x @ 108-110mph in the 1/8th.
Satisfied with the cars performance, we bolted on the street tires again and took the longer route home 95km (59miles).
Engine chugged along at 1950rpm at 74mph. No issues with the car all day, super happy with the results and reliability.
This weekend we took the car to Medicine Hat to participate in Southern Alberta’s Fastest Streetcar Shootout. This was the first time running on a prepped surface since September 2016.
Friday was rained out, but Saturday turned out to be a beautiful day. Drove the ~30 mile cruise with my son with only minor directional issues. At the checkpoint drew first round, a 2023 Dodge Demon, that turned out to be a Demon 170(8 second 1/4 capable factory). As the shootout is only 1/8th mile I was hoping to be close.
First pass car hooked, lifted front tires and then spun, handing the win to the other lane.
Adjusted the boost ramp, and added some launch retard which resulted in a 1.64 60’ and 6.628 @ 107.64.
Put some more power back in which resulted in another loss of traction and 7.16 @ 106.84 on a 1.75 60’
Overall happy with the results, drove into the trailer with no failures all weekend. Ran close to my best 1/8 mile MPH even though the car is about 200lbs heavier than last time out. With the launch figured out, if I can get it back into the 1.4 60’ range, it should run a high 9 as is.
I believe I am at the limit of this turbo and have definitely seen that the EBay intercooler is no where near as efficient as my old precision core.
Over winter I may look at upgrading the turbo and intercooler and try and finally get this thing into the 9’s, but for now very happy. I have driven and tuned since April without a major issue. The 4T80 /axle combo is taking the power without a hiccup so far. Terminator X Max has allowed me to run the combo much safer and with more control. It seems to be making more power with the coil per cylinder, proper fueling and timing control.
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 09-23-2024).]
In this case I made it stay on launch boost (11psi) for 0.55 seconds before the ramp to target boost began. Also pulled 15 degrees of ignition advance out for 0.5 seconds and then ramped that in over 1.5 seconds.
Haven’t shared any pictures of the car since I started wrapping it last fall. Now that it has been seen in public, the cats out of the bag. Huge amount of work has gone into bringing this back to the street. It has been surreal driving it again after so long.
that's a pretty gt. I'm definitely a pop up guy but your mods play into each other nicely
A few questions - your shifter, was it the stock Fiero automatic shifter assembly (excluding the knob with the two-step button mod)? If it was, does it "line up" correctly with the stock Fiero gear indicator on the console surround (that is, do the detents in the 4T80 have different spacing that keeps the indicator from being in the right spot)?
We're getting closer to sorting things out with my 4T80 transmission issue. Line pressure is behaving correctly, shift points are good, now we're trying to figure out how/why TCC lockup is kicking on as soon as it shifts into 3rd gear - even when we disconnected BOTH the solenoid wires for the TCC lockup.
[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 11-04-2024).]
Car was originally a 4 speed, so I don’t have the automatic gear indicator. I am using a stock Fiero shifter and cable, I have a offset interface between the stock 4t80 arm and the Fiero cable that I was able to adjust to get the shifter stops to line up with the detents in the transmission, and even first gear pulls in. I welded a mount for the cable to attach to the trans to work with all this.
In theory, since the trans detents line up with my shifter stops, it should work with the stock shifter surround, other than 1st gear, and 2nd being at 1, 3rd being at 2.
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 11-04-2024).]
That makes perfect sense. I am confident that we have the shifter locks lined up pretty well with the detents. I wasn't sure which cable other guys who did the northstar w/4t80 swap was using, so we had messed with a few different Cadillac cables till we found one that worked. I didn't even consider buying a Fiero one to try. Hindsight is always 20/20!
Car came out dirty (in a good way). Must feel good to drive it again after so long. Haven't driven mine since 2015, hoping to be driving it this upcoming summer.
Thought about any suspension mods to stop it from lifting the front?
I want the front to lift to get all the weight on the back tires to help keep from spinning the tires. I may play with rear spring weight as it doesn’t seem to want to take as much power as it used to on the stock springs. Not sure if I need heavier spring to plant weight or lighter spring to help more weight transfer. At least with coil overs now, it’s fairly easy to try different things.
I would imagine that a softer rear that squats more would help progressively load the tires and provide additional grip, compared to a soft front that extends. With a stiffer front but a softer rear you may still lift the front wheels and get 100% weight transfer, but the front won't have to come off the ground as far to accomplish this.
I haven't built a drag car, just contemplating the physics.
Probably try and find something similar to the stock spring at ride height, stock suspension worked extremely well, but limited tire size. Coil-overs have made more room, but don’t seem to be holding the tire as well. Going to throw a limited slip in and see if that helps as well.
Is it one of those "clutch" styles ones? I have mixed feelings on them for transverse transmissions, which is likely due more to my ignorance on transmissions. If anyone makes a helical/worm gear style LSD for it though... I'd be all over that.
EDIT: Found it, googled it and found the "Traction Concepts" one. I think I did see this before and passed on it because of it's style. A quick search didn't turn up any gear-driven ones yet though.
[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 11-12-2024).]
.... Not sure if I need heavier spring to plant weight or lighter spring to help more weight transfer. At least with coil overs now, it’s fairly easy to try different things.
I use a fairly "light" spring rate at the rear. Something like 250#, if I remember?
It penalises on body roll, but it helps to bog down the rear and grip!
------------------ "Turbo Slug" - '87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. - The fastest Fiero in France! @turboslugfiero https://youtu.be/hUzOAeyWLfM
I agree, the style of LSD isn’t my favorite, but it just needs a little bit of help to keep from opening up. I generally will spin both tires in burnout box, and leave two black marks when breaking traction. Sometimes one wheel will stop spinning though, and the car does want to go left when the from tires come off the ground, which I suspect is due to more torque going to right wheel.
On the 4t65, I had the diff pin come loose a couple of times, which is from uneven burnouts. I’m going to give this a shot, hopefully it helps, if not it was relatively cheap.
I’m currently on 275 lb springs, but only 10” long. May try some longer ones to make sure I’m not running out of spring travel and upsetting the suspension.
I agree, the style of LSD isn’t my favorite, but it just needs a little bit of help to keep from opening up. I generally will spin both tires in burnout box, and leave two black marks when breaking traction. Sometimes one wheel will stop spinning though, and the car does want to go left when the from tires come off the ground, which I suspect is due to more torque going to right wheel.
On the 4t65, I had the diff pin come loose a couple of times, which is from uneven burnouts. I’m going to give this a shot, hopefully it helps, if not it was relatively cheap.
I’m currently on 275 lb springs, but only 10” long. May try some longer ones to make sure I’m not running out of spring travel and upsetting the suspension.
I try not to do burnouts. Too much risk to break a shaft or blow the gearbox up! I prefer semi slick tyres and low tyre pressures. Here in France, most of the runs are on non-prepped surfaces (old aerodromes) so heating up the tyres with a burnout doesn't make much difference to your performance. The others do it mostly for the show!
------------------ "Turbo Slug" - '87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. - The fastest Fiero in France! @turboslugfiero https://youtu.be/hUzOAeyWLfM
