Clutch went out on my '86 GT with Muncie 4-speed. Ordered Rodney Dickman's master and slave cylinders hoping that was the problem. Installed the master cylinder and took off the slave cylinder only to find that the clutch arm was broken. Car has been down for almost 4 weeks now and cannot seem to be able to locate a clutch release arm anywhere. Anyone know where I can get one?
Any help appreciated 🙏

Welcome, my 86 GT 4-speed is also from Denver! Can you post a photo of your broken clutch arm? You might be better off putting your Wanted Ad in the Mall section.

Also be advised, the 4-speed slave cylinder attaches to an aluminum bracket that cracks over time and eventually breaks, so while you are in there and replacing all those parts I would recommend buying the steel replacement bracket Rodney sells... http://rodneydickman.com/pr...o.php?products_id=59

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 04-01-2022).]

I did post in the mall section as well.
Here is the broken arm...

Later transmissions went to a cast arm.
They are interchangeable.

Can't find the later cast one either.

quote Originally posted by 8t6gt: Here is the broken arm...

Thanks for posting, yep it broke on both sides, here and here...

quote Originally posted by Skybax: I've read the later 5-speed cast ones are not 100% interchangeable, reduces throw, didn't get full disengagement of clutch, some people had to modify it to get it to work properly with 4-speed, so I would suggest getting another 4-speed stamped steel arm and strengthening/reinforcing it before installing. Try www.car-part.com which is a junkyard database and you can sort by zip code/distance. (search selecting "transmission" to find entire car first) Here are the hits I got within 1000 miles of Denver with a Muncie 4-speed...

That's my plan, reinforce it!

I've also read the Isuzu 5-speed arms ARE interchangeable with the Muncie 4-speed, but I cannot confirm that. The Fiero Store does sell a new replacement cast arm for the 85-88 4-cylinder 5-speed... https://www.fierostore.com/...spx?s=64300&d=85&p=1

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 04-01-2022).]

Look for an arm from an 86 four speed, they are cast iron.

Mine is an '86 4-speed, it has a stamped steer arm. Regardless, I can't seem to find either.

[This message has been edited by 8t6gt (edited 04-02-2022).]

Hmmm, my 86 SE had a cast arm.

Have you tried the Fiero Factory in Toney AL?

I think it's called TFF Automotive now.

I believe it's still calle Fiero Factory if you're buying parts. But the repair shop has a different name and is separately owned.

My 84' SE performance with a 4 speed muncie has a cast iron arm. The thing looks relatively new and the clutch lets in very early on the pedal, and tends to slip. I am trying to diagnose my clutch issues and I saw all of this saying that the 4 speeds have a stamped steel arm. I believe a previous owner of my car replaced the stamped arm after it likely broke in a similar fashion. Some people are saying the cast and stamped are interchangeable. I doubt this since the fiero store sells the replacement cast iron arm for 85-88 only, not '84. The 84 only comes with a 4 speed muncie, so it makes sense that all 84's should have the stamped. Anybody know how I can adjust my clutch arm or adjust the clutch so it lets in later in the pedal? might fix my issues.

quote Originally posted by glwalker04: ...the clutch lets in very early on the pedal, and tends to slip. Anybody know how I can adjust my clutch arm or adjust the clutch so it lets in later in the pedal? might fix my issues.

"Lets in"? What does that mean... engages?

Early engagement could be air in the hydraulics, or a bent pedal. How high does your clutch pedal sit above your brake pedal?

Clutch slippage is an entirely different matter. On a non-molested system, it's due to the clutch disc being worn out. On a "molested" system, it might be due to a hack job where someone tried using a much longer push rod between the slave and the clutch arm (which isn't allowing the clutch arm to return far enough).

Is there a reason why you abandoned your thread?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-05-2022).]

Just a pic for info from an archived thread.
The Isuzu 5-speed stamped clutch arm looks very similar to what you have.
Another source says the The Muncie 4-speed and Isuzu 5-speed use the same stamped arm.

I got an arm from an Isuzu the other day - PN 10034202 stamped on it.

quote Originally posted by CowsPatoot: An original un-modded stamped Isuzu arm next to a cast Isuzu and cast Muncie

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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-05-2022).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: "Lets in"? What does that mean... engages? Early engagement could be air in the hydraulics, or a bent pedal. How high does your clutch pedal sit above your brake pedal? Clutch slippage is an entirely different matter. On a non-molested system, it's due to the clutch disc being worn out. On a "molested" system, it might be due to a hack job where someone tried using a much longer push rod between the slave and the clutch arm (which isn't allowing the clutch arm to return far enough). Is there a reason why you abandoned your thread?

Hi Patrick, thanks for the replies, I am new to working on cars and don't know exactly what words I should use to describe things quite yet. This is my first manual car and first car I have bought, I am a senior in high school and play sports, so if i'm not doing either of those I'm working on the car and rarely getting on the forum. I'm not used to navigating the forum and didn't know how to get back to my old thread. I understand mechanical things quite quickly, so I understand that the clutch plate could have been worn, unfortunately I have not actually driven the car yet. My dad is the only one who knows how to drive manual, and we only took it on one test drive before having to work on it. He described the clutch as "slipping" until about 2500 rpm, so I thought I might have to take out the clutch and put in a new plate. However, I noticed the pedal engages the clutch quite early, about 3-4 inches down, and to answer your question, the clutch pedal sits about 1 inch below the brake. Could the clutch letting in high cause a "slipping" effect? Or is it impossible for the clutch to even engage if its letting in early. I have been doing a lot of research and can't find any diagrams or info on the m19 other than gearing ratios. This thread is the one where I noticed my clutch arm was cast, not stamped, and it made me think that might be the reason my pedal engages too early. Unfortunately since I haven't actually driven a manual or this car, I don't know what the "normal" should be.

[This message has been edited by glwalker04 (edited 05-07-2022).]

Clutch pedal shud sit ABOVE the brake pedal at rest. If not, then either an adjustable banjo is needed or air in the lines shud be bled. i believe that all 4 speed Muncies use the cast iron arm OR the stamped steel one. They are interchangable. i know cuz i did it. You gotta learn to bleed your clutch system.

Herez how i do it. Get the front of the car higher than the rear - a lot if possible. Clean out the clutch master cylinder with a q tip and then suck out the fluid with a turkey baster - get one at a thrift store and keep it for your car. Now add new fluid to master cylinder. Now open the bleeder at the slave. Let it drip and catch the drips on your cradle with a soup can. Let it bleed a long time and keep adding fluid to master. Finally shut off bleed screw and put cap on master. This is known as the gravity bleed system. There are other systems that work as well.

Rodney sells a double sealed clutch slave piston from a Toyota that works perfectly in a Fiero. i highly recommend it.

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I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 3800SC, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

quote Originally posted by longjonsilver: Get the front of the car higher than the rear - a lot if possible. Clean out the clutch master cylinder with a q tip and then suck out the fluid with a turkey baster - get one at a thrift store and keep it for your car. Now add new fluid to master cylinder. Now open the bleeder at the slave. Let it drip and catch the drips on your cradle with a soup can. Let it bleed a long time and keep adding fluid to master. Finally shut off bleed screw and put cap on master. This is known as the gravity bleed system. There are other systems that work as well.

Unfortunately can't do that yet, car has been on back jack stands as I have been working on the calipers and E-Brake.

Thanks for the reassurance that the arms are interchangeable. Still wonder if the clutch plate needs to be taken out or not (rather not deal with the trouble of taking out the tranny if possible, especially since I don't have any info/diagrams of an m19).

Here's a pic of my pedals:
from front to back- clutch, brake, gas


And for reference, here is my slave cylinder and mounting bracket.


My plan is to move the slave cylinder back using the extra hole

[This message has been edited by glwalker04 (edited 05-07-2022).]

You need to have a minimum throw of the slave rod of 1 1/8". A throw of just 1" will not disengage the clutch. That clutch pedal tells me that something is very wrong. Starting that far below the brake, you will not get proper disengagement of the clutch nor will you get 1 1/8" movement of the slave rod. i doubt that the problem is the location of the slave cylinder. Start by checking how much movement at the slave rod.

You can also bleed by yourself using the "hockey stick method". Put the crook of the hockey stick under your left armpit and using your right hand to open and close the bleeder, push down on the clutch pedal with the hockey stick. You know the order no? Open bleeder, push down pedal, close bleeder, release pedal. Do that till there are no more bubbles - it might take a while. Make sure you don't run out of fluid in the clutch master.

jon

Remember, many of us have been there done that. Have patience, it IS possible.

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 3800SC, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 05-11-2022).]

quote Originally posted by longjonsilver: You need to have a minimum throw of the slave rod of 1 1/8". A throw of just 1" will not disengage the clutch. That clutch pedal tells me that something is very wrong. Starting that far below the brake, you will not get proper disengagement of the clutch nor will you get 1 1/8" movement of the slave rod. i doubt that the problem is the location of the slave cylinder. Start by checking how much movement at the slave rod. You can also bleed by yourself using the "hockey stick method". Put the crook of the hockey stick under your left armpit and using your right hand to open and close the bleeder, push down on the clutch pedal with the hockey stick. You know the order no? Open bleeder, push down pedal, close bleeder, release pedal. Do that till there are no more bubbles - it might take a while. Make sure you don't run out of fluid in the clutch master. jon Remember, many of us have been there done that. Have patience, it IS possible.

Me and my dad bled the cables, turns out there was a lot of air in there, after that we moved back the slave cylinder back like I said I planned on doing. My problem isn't the clutch disengaging, Its the fact that it wont engage, and I moved the slave back so there would be less pressure on the clutch pressure plate. If that doesn't work, I need to figure out why the pedal is so far back. I wish I knew how far the throw was before that, I did not know there it had to be 1 1/8 or more. I will test the throw of the cylinder in its new position to see if it throws out enough.

I moved the slave cylinder back by using a ratchet strap connected to the clutch arm to a secure location in the frame (or if your ratchet is short enough, the engine hoist loops). I then depressed the clutch as someone else tightened the ratchet, enough to hold back the arm. You need to do this since the ratchet can't overcome the pressure of the arm by itself.

The way I read your posts, you have two issues. Not enough slave travel to properly disengage the clutch, and clutch slippage (probably) due to a worn out clutch disc.

quote Originally posted by glwalker04: My plan is to move the slave cylinder back using the extra hole.

I don't understand why you're moving the slave.

Instead of moving the slave, test to make sure the clutch arm has fully returned by clamping vice-grips onto the push rod, and pull the push rod further into the slave. The slave piston should be able to move further in. If it doesn't, there's a chance that a longer non-factory push rod has been installed, and the slave is bottoming out (and preventing the clutch from fully engaging).

This is all conjecture though. I still suspect your clutch disc is worn out and is responsible for the slippage.

quote Originally posted by glwalker04: I did not know there it had to be 1 1/8 or more. I will test the throw of the cylinder in its new position to see if it throws out enough.

With your clutch pedal sitting that low, there's no way you're going to get enough throw at the slave. The pedal will hit the floor long before the slave moves 1-1/8". Your clutch pedal (and/or banjo) is badly bent. An adjustable banjo may or may not be enough to cover this issue. Check the images of bent pedals in This old post of mine.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-13-2022).]

My thought process for moving was that the arm has to rotate counter clockwise to actuate so if I moved it back it would give less engagement on the pressure plate, and therefore the clutch pad, since I am having slipping feeling issues, a friend pointed out that maybe the pressure plate is always being slightly engaged enough that the clutch cannot grab it properly, figured I would try this before deciding to take out the entire transmission. I have to try to fix that pedal being so far back as well.

Is there any way to force that clutch arm back if I need to move the slave cylinder back?

I suggested how to check if there was any pressure being put on the clutch arm when the pedal is released and the clutch is (supposed to be) engaged. It'll take you about one minute to do. If the push rod can be pulled further into the slave when the clutch pedal is at rest, then there is no undo pressure on the clutch arm keeping the clutch from fully engaging.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-13-2022).]