Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  3800 series 3 swap

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
3800 series 3 swap by Guy Fiero in FL
Started on: 04-27-2022 07:29 PM
Replies: 22 (426 views)
Last post by: Guy Fiero in FL on 05-07-2022 12:48 PM
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-27-2022 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just bought an 04 grand prix gtp motor transaxle harness and computer. I know I need older throttle body, but what year and model harness and computer do I need to use the motor and transaxle? Also for fuel do I just use a 3 port adjustable regulator? I have a chance to buy a harness and computer out of an 03 Buick lasabre, I just don't want to buy the wrong parts. Please help. Lol
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 19117
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 206
Rate this member

Report this Post04-27-2022 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The first question is do you want to keep the E-throttle?
IP: Logged
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-27-2022 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The first question is do you want to keep the E-throttle?


No I'm looking to keep it simple but I do want to use the 04 transaxle
IP: Logged
hnthomps
Member
Posts: 5741
From: Columbia, SC
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score:    (18)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 51
Rate this member

Report this Post04-28-2022 08:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Manual or auto transmission for the 3800 SC engine?

Nelson
IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 19117
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 206
Rate this member

Report this Post04-28-2022 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The E-throttle is simple, all that's needed is to mount the pedal.

IP: Logged
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-28-2022 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

Manual or auto transmission for the 3800 SC engine?

Nelson


Auto and out of a 2004 grand prix gtp.
IP: Logged
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-28-2022 11:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Guy Fiero in FL

10 posts
Member since Apr 2022
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The E-throttle is simple, all that's needed is to mount the pedal.


The pedal should be included with it. It's being delivered on Monday. What about the fuel pressure sensor and returnless fuel system? Also what software are you guys using? I use to use C.A.T.S. Tuner software for my old supercharged lt1 corvette.
IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 19117
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 206
Rate this member

Report this Post04-28-2022 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The fuel delivery issues can be worked around.

The Series 2 rail can be cut and used to regulate pressure and provide the return line to the tank and a single line up the the series 3 fuel rail.

Most folks use an aftermarket (Walbro) pump rated high enough for the delivery/pressure requirements. It is in-tank mounted like the OEM Fiero pump.
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 15483
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 329
Rate this member

Report this Post04-30-2022 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The E-throttle is simple, all that's needed is to mount the pedal.

Although DBW operation can be achieved, on my series III I went with a 2000 N* cable operated throttle body using the adapter from ZZ performance. Although I never tried DBW I have read that there are programming issues that must be overcome that are not easy.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 19117
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 206
Rate this member

Report this Post04-30-2022 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A competent tuner should have no problem.
Archie uses DBW throttle bodies on his LS swaps.
There are many DBW 3800 swaps as well.
IP: Logged
Jncomutt
Member
Posts: 8900
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 221
Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2022 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mounting the pedal is no problem, its a simple plate to offset the mounting holes. The pedal is wired almost fully to the TB, so its a simple wiring job too.

You can use the S3 rail with only 1 hose up to the rail by using a corvette fuel filter mounted down by the tank.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Jncomutt
Member
Posts: 8900
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 221
Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2022 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Jncomutt

8900 posts
Member since Apr 2001




IP: Logged
Jncomutt
Member
Posts: 8900
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 221
Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2022 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Jncomutt

8900 posts
Member since Apr 2001


IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 15483
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 329
Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2022 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Mounting the pedal is no problem, its a simple plate to offset the mounting holes. The pedal is wired almost fully to the TB, so its a simple wiring job too.

You can use the S3 rail with only 1 hose up to the rail by using a corvette fuel filter mounted down by the tank.


I don't believe that the Corvette gasoline filter has a rising rate fuel pressure regulator build in, in other words a FP regulator that raises the standard operating fuel pressure above the boost level so the engine doesn't go lean. Going DBW may involve deleting traction control and PCM fuel regulation functions. While program modification can most likely circumvent these I feared that DBW would dampen throttle response a bit so I took the simple approach and wired using a 2003 GTP PCM, the 3800SC regulator by the tank and a cable operated N* TB. I would appreciate hearing how you addressed these issues especially the traction control function.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
Jncomutt
Member
Posts: 8900
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 221
Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2022 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Considering the S3 PCM is designed for static fuel pressure on the L32, it works exactly as intended. The throttle control table is tunable, as are abuse modes & torque management
IP: Logged
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2022 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Considering the S3 PCM is designed for static fuel pressure on the L32, it works exactly as intended. The throttle control table is tunable, as are abuse modes & torque management


What year corvette is that fuel filter?
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 15483
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 329
Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2022 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Considering the S3 PCM is designed for static fuel pressure on the L32, it works exactly as intended. The throttle control table is tunable, as are abuse modes & torque management


The blower generates boost and if you have 43psi of static fuel pressure and 8 psi of pressure in the manifold it becomes 35 psi at the injectors unless the system is set up for fuel management at the fuel pump in the tank where you can lengthen the duty cycle and increase pressure there. Just a guess on this, but the 3800SC series II controls, although more basic, seem more workable to me and easier to tune..

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
Jncomutt
Member
Posts: 8900
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 221
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2022 06:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Guy Fiero in FL:


What year corvette is that fuel filter?


2000 corvette.

IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 19117
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 206
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2022 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The next question is what year Fiero are you swapping the drivetrain into?
IP: Logged
KissMySSFiero
Member
Posts: 5542
From: Tarpon Springs, FL USA
Registered: Nov 2000


Feedback score:    (18)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 111
Rate this member

Report this Post05-05-2022 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


The blower generates boost and if you have 43psi of static fuel pressure and 8 psi of pressure in the manifold it becomes 35 psi at the injectors unless the system is set up for fuel management at the fuel pump in the tank where you can lengthen the duty cycle and increase pressure there. Just a guess on this, but the 3800SC series II controls, although more basic, seem more workable to me and easier to tune..


the fuel pressure when using the corvette filter should be a constant 58 PSI. It's does not have a vacuum/boost reference.

How does the series 3 regulate fuel pressure? Is it expecting a constant pressure, or does the PCM modulate the pump to reduce/raise pressure as needed? I would have assumed it expects a constant pressure

Where in FL are you?
------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com

[This message has been edited by KissMySSFiero (edited 05-05-2022).]

IP: Logged
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-05-2022 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

the fuel pressure when using the corvette filter should be a constant 58 PSI. It's does not have a vacuum/boost reference.

How does the series 3 regulate fuel pressure? Is it expecting a constant pressure, or does the PCM modulate the pump to reduce/raise pressure as needed? I would have assumed it expects a constant pressure

Where in FL are you?


I'm in Marianna FL, just above Panama city.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-05-2022 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The next question is what year Fiero are you swapping the drivetrain into?


It's a 1986
IP: Logged
Guy Fiero in FL
Junior Member
Posts: 10
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2022 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Fiero in FLSend a Private Message to Guy Fiero in FLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:







Sent you a pm.
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock