Yes- but what about that variable intake? I own a 3900 (In my van) and have looked at and compared the two intakes- there is a lot of added weight there- and it is high up raising your CG.
plenty of 3.9's were available without the cheesy variable intake. if you're pulling the only at the JY and it has a variable plenum, and you don't want the added weight or complexity, take it off and throw a non variable plenum on.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
Well- I did not know that; I thought that all of the 3900s had the variable intake- that is all I have seen, on vehicles and on junkers.....
I actually really like the new 4.3 LV3 because it weighs only 300 lbs- 70 lbs lighter than our 2.8 V6....And it has 290 HP and 330 Lb/Ft torque....at low "R"s which infuriates the Tonda buzz-bomb fans.
200WHP & 215WTQ out of a stock 3900cc! Now you have a ruler to improve from.
that engine isn't entirely stock, the VVT system has been deleted, and a stock camshaft from a LNJ 3400 installed. So it's using stock parts, but the VVT may allow for more peak numbers, and will almost certainly provide some improvement to average numbers as well.
I would also say the wheel horsepower numbers probably don't make for the best comparison in this case, that engine is installed in front of a 5 speed manual, I believe it's a T5 now, it was a NV3500 at one point, and a longitudinal RWD, which would have very different efficiency characteristics compared to a transverse automatic.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
it actually made more top end, and only a smidge less torque, which kinda goes with my suggestion that the VVT might help bump up the average numbers.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
it actually made more top end, and only a smidge less torque, which kinda goes with my suggestion that the VVT might help bump up the average numbers.
Exactly! So the difference isn't much. Still, all that work and expense to make 200+WHP. That's what, 55hp per liter? My ancient 2.8L with ported heads, bigger valves, Intake and cam made 173WHP. That's 62hp per liter. Spared the expense of the 3900, spared the custom mounting points on the cradle, all the wiring , ECM, etc, etc. But, I respect every ones build and decisions. Me, personally, I can't comprehend WHY go to such length to get more cubes and make less HP than a smaller displacement engine with lesser upgrades. And when they realize they failed, they get the last resort; TURBO time! But then again, its their build and yours and I sincerely respect that!
The stock flywheel is a dual mass unit that's in the neighborhood of 30#. Just swapping to a stock Fiero flywheel would net measurable power gains, significant gains in lower gears.
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
Exactly! So the difference isn't much. Still, all that work and expense to make 200+WHP. That's what, 55hp per liter? My ancient 2.8L with ported heads, bigger valves, Intake and cam made 173WHP. That's 62hp per liter. Spared the expense of the 3900, spared the custom mounting points on the cradle, all the wiring , ECM, etc, etc. But, I respect every ones build and decisions. Me, personally, I can't comprehend WHY go to such length to get more cubes and make less HP than a smaller displacement engine with lesser upgrades. And when they realize they failed, they get the last resort; TURBO time! But then again, its their build and yours and I sincerely respect that!
A 3900 is hardly an expensive engine. The numbers shown above are stock emissions engines with stock cams. Couldn't be further from comparable to a built 2.8.
Either way, >200 whp is a rocket compared to the stock Fiero's ~110 RWHP.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 08-25-2022).]
Would your friend who provided the photos have photos of the actual alternator mounting bracket?
Thanks in advance.
I sent you a PM with his contact info, I also PM'd him and asked for more pictures.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
And people laughed when my 3.4 'only' made 187/249 with a stock 3400 cam before I slowed it down with bigger wheels... But yeah, I tried to get a peak at the rear wheels of the truck...and they looked heavy...
La Fiera, was that GTP a stick or a girly transmission?
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 08-25-2022).]
And people laughed when my 3.4 'only' made 187/249 with a stock 3400 cam before I slowed it down with bigger wheels... But yeah, I tried to get a peak at the rear wheels of the truck...and they looked heavy...
La Fiera, was that GTP a stick or a girly transmission?
modified engine making 187 HP that's out of breath at 4500 rpm, or 215 HP that revs cleanly to almost 7K bone stock with emissions equipment in tact, which sounds more appealing? it's a rhetorical question.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
Originally posted by ericjon262: modified engine making 187 HP that's out of breath at 4500 rpm, or 215 HP that revs cleanly to almost 7K bone stock with emissions equipment in tact, which sounds more appealing? it's a rhetorical question.
I <3 trolls. Are we on double-digits with your super duper forever-build yet? Where did my 25lbs flywheel touch you that broke your pride?
I <3 trolls. Are we on double-digits with your super duper forever-build yet? Where did my 25lbs flywheel touch you that broke your pride?
I will be the first to say that I harassed you for quite a while about your claims and ideas, which I believe to be flawed.
I will also be the first to say, that the build of my car, while having taken quite some time, has undergone significant refinement, and quite frankly, at the onset of the build, I was young, dumb, and starstruck by the idea of making 1000 hp or some other nonsense, I made several poor decisions, some of which greatly prolonged the build of my car, some factors in my life were determined to prolong the build for me as well. When I started the build, I could have dropped in a 3500 with a stock 4 speed on stock mounts and called it good. first came the desire for a 5 or 6 speed, then a cam, then ported heads, then a turbo, I let the ideas snowball out of control until I had so much on my plate, that there was no way it would happen quickly, or easily, I could have been daily driving this car for the better part of the past 10 years, instead, that has only become a somewhat recent development. does that upset me? not really, my car has been a learning experience like no other, my troubleshooting skills have drastically improved, My fabrication abilities went from non-existent, to something I can be quite proud of. I've become quite the amateur engineer, not many can say they've designed and built the entire exhaust on their car, or made their own shift mechanism from scratch, or wired a car almost completely from nothing. did it take a long time to get where I am? yeah. am I done? nope, that would be too easy. it's a project car, always has been, always will be, I will always continue to strive to make it better, something I have successfully done every time i have taken it apart, you seem to be counting, maybe you can tell me how many times that is?
My pride is far from broken, I have grown quite bored of this banter though, I will make one final point on the subject within this thread:
Almost every post I have made in this thread has been an effort to provide help or insight, as I have been closely involved in a similar swap. I will fully own that my last post was of almost no benefit.
both your first, and second post in this thread, provide absolutely nothing helpful, they were nothing more than an attempt to derail a thread that i can only assume is do to a longstanding disagreement between you and myself. you have provided nothing useful, and I'm fairly confident the lack of moderation on this forum will allow that to continue.
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:
...and here I am building a 3.400->3.5 L 6" rod, high-revving cam, lightened drivetrain old school pushrod motor with Fiero heads and 11+:1 compression running E85...
cool story?
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:
And people laughed when my 3.4 'only' made 187/249 with a stock 3400 cam before I slowed it down with bigger wheels... But yeah, I tried to get a peak at the rear wheels of the truck...and they looked heavy...
La Fiera, was that GTP a stick or a girly transmission?
yeah, because a stock LZ4 will have a larger powerband, and better average torque/horsepower, while most likely exceeding emissions standards, and probably making significantly better fuel economy, it will also probably be lighter, without even considering taking the plenum off the intake.
I will not comment further on this matter. if you have something to say to me, feel free to PM me, please leave others out of whatever quarrel you have with me. feel free to trash my thread however you want, I'll even provide a link.
trash away. it's totally fair game, pull it apart however you want. I've shared almost every success, and every failure. many of the early posts were deleted due to closing my photobucket account and losing the pictures, feel free to go after that too. I'm openly inviting you, troll me. go ahead. For that matter, anyone who wants to go after me, be my guest, the link is right there.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I have also shared my every success and failure. You call my 'theories' flawed...but fail to realize they are facts with observable evidence.
Everyone is free to watch this video and see who the fastest car on the track is. No - I didn't win the event thru my own fault...but look at who did. Any trollish claim of 'must have been stock cars' are ridiculous as this is the most competitive track in the country, where some of our drivers win at all other tracks including the Freedom Factory. I drive my car to the track unlike most of the trailer queens I compete against.
Point to where my car is limited to 4500 rpm ... I'll wait. Please disprove my theory with your observable evidence. My post, prior to your trolling was defending the truck dyno because I know exactly how heavy wheels affect a dyno... Then I asked a question about the other dyno because I have a 2 G6 6-speeds in 2 Fieros with ~25lbs flywheels (due to the 1" flywheel spacer) so I wanted to compare it to my own.
As for my 3.5 with 6" rods...all the parts are with the engine assembler, just waiting on their schedule to get it assembled. It's a 3400 block bored to 3.7" with a half-cement fill so the cylinders don't warp...and hey, the extra weight in the back will even help me launch better. People spend more time figuring out how to put an engine in when you can spend less time building an engine right and could actually spend enjoying your darn car.
You wanna whine about modifying an engine when you're modifying everything around the engine and adding power-adders like a turbo... I wound be functionally retarded to put an aluminum head engine in my car without rebuilding it first as they are generally a ticking time-bomb waiting to blow a head or intake gasket. I have been driving the car for 12 years up to last year with trophies, cash in my pocket and thousands of fans at the track who enjoy seeing me perform. Sorry if that offends...no, not sorry.
Would you like more evidence? You can find other articles on this as to how much power the Z06 was actually making... https://www.corvetteblogger...ashes-into-the-wall/ [note] the article fails to notice my traction issue in turn 2 since I knew he was fast, so I pushed it hard, almost lost it...had to back off...and was swung out wide coming out of turn 2...but I digress...[/note]
Again, sorry-not-sorry that I figured out how to make power from a FIREBIRD 2.8 intake and 'low-tech' iron heads by 'touching' them...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 08-27-2022).]
Buick Lucerne's with the 3.9 mount the alternator higher toward the front, in the circled region here
I'm fairly certain you will need the coolant crossover and timing cover to use that mounting scheme. it has been used in a Fiero before, I've seen pictures, but I don't remember who did it. it might be worth keeping an eye out for one in the wrecking yard or doing a few searches.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
Unlike you - I'm not a troll. Have never left 1 comment in your thread(s). I don't care about your build. I don't care about you. Hence I don't read your thread(s) since you and they are useless to me. Asking to be trolled in your own thread is pathetic...and trollish. You on the other-hand like to follow me around.
That would be more observable evidence about who the real troll is...
If you wanna try something. Try finishing a build before you run your fingers across the keyboard. Now that would be an accomplishment.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 08-29-2022).]
I had a thought, both my alternator mount, and my buddies, put the alternator low, by the axle. this is perfectly fine for a manual trans car, with a automatic, you may run into more space issues with that same location, I would highly recommend bolting the engine and transmission together before working on the alternator mount.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
I am slowing working on the 3.5 v6 conversion/transplant.
Didn't want this thread to disappear or get lost.......... I am sure all can appreciate the fact that at times life gets in the way of your projects as it relates to family matters. Besides, currently we are in the middle of hurricane season! Although no major storms yet in the area, ones never knows when the next one will present itself.
I have in my mind have spent too much time on relocating the alternator. For the time being I will leave it in it's original location and will deal with it later. The relocation was taking time away from building the wire harness for the conversion.
I'm hearing and seeing some conflicting data on the information below, I'll update this post once everything is 100% squared away.
the VVT variants of the 60V6 have the same 4 bolt boss on the side of the block by the transmission as the earlier engines, today, I was working on a prototype part, and I test fit the part on both an LZ4 and LX9 in the garage.
My LZ4 isn't in a place I can easily get my phone/camera, and get a picture worth looking at. but the single bolt on the LZ4 block in the same position I'm pointing at below, are NOT in the same place, they're off by at least 1/2 the bolt diameter. if you put a stock Fiero bracket there with only one bolt, the engine will sit significantly nose down. I haven't had a chance to measure the difference yet, but you should be aware of that.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 09-22-2022).]
I dragged my LZ4 out of the corner, and snapped a picture of the mismatch, it's off, but it actually appears to be rotated off, maybe the boss on the side of the block is at a different angle? I'll have to measure it tomorrow. looking at the mismatch earlier it looked like it was off because differently, my buddy Chris's car was nose down using that bolt location, but that may have been due to some other reason.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
I took a quick measurement of the angle of the bolt holes on the side of the block, they appear to be at the same angle as the earlier LX9 block in the garage.
it's worth mentioning, the 4 bolt boss on the side of the LX9 and LZ engines are both the same, the 4 bolt pattern on an earlier 3400 block is slightly closer together front to back.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
I took the timing cover off of my LZ4, peeled the gasket off, and laid it on my LX9 block:
the bolt holes are in the came place, but some of them are smaller on the LZ
on each block, I put three bolts in, two in the lower timing cover bolt holes closest to the motor mount boss(es), and one in the mounting point that is being debated. I them measured the positions of the bolts relative to each other.
LX9
LZ4
the 1" mark on the tape is approximately centered on the head of each bolt it is over, it's not exactly precision, but close enough to show there is a difference in the position of that bolt boss relative to the timing cover bolts.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
It's been a while since I last posted. Sometimes life and family gets in the way of projects. So be it.........
I have acquired a used 4T65E transmission and should arrive this Thursday. Once it arrives I plan to check it out, clean if required then begin the installation and mating process to the 3.5 v6.
quick little bump for updates and to make sure you know we are still watching.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
Long story short...... I have gone through three (3) transmissions. Hopefully this 4th unit will be a keeper? In fact, I will make it a keeper. Not a 4T65e but rather a 4T45e out of a 2009 Malibu with a 3.5 v6. I picked this one up at the local Pull-a-Part out of a 2009 Malibu thinking it was a 4T65e. Not the case! I figured I would give this transmission a shot. Better than nothing and gets me moving forward again with my project.
I have cleaned it up a bit and currently waiting on parts to facilitate the mating to the 3.5 v6. The parts I am waiting on are: transmission filter unit, oil pan and oil pan gasket. Once they arrive and I have installed the parts I will photograph and post. The transmission is at my son's place of business in an ultrasonic hot liquid cleaner.
The parts should arrive early next week, until then.
My only concern presently is the axles, a big unknown!!!
Believe it or not the 4T45E has been mated to the 3.5 v6, what an exercise!! Now I am in the process of sorting out what transmission mounts I will need. If push comes to shove I will have my son fabricate what I need?
Here are a few photos of the installation:
Transmission with oil pan removed
Transmission with oil filter installed
Transmission name plate information
Transmission mated to engine, lft view
Another view of the transmission installed, lft side view.
I finally received my rear "A" control arms from the blaster/painter's. I had them epoxy coated.
Currently, I'm in the process of building CVs. To date most of the needed parts have been ordered and waiting on delivery of those parts. Once I get the CVs built I will post the build process with necessary part numbers, etc.
I have backed off on the CV build until I get the transmission mounts sorted out. Guess you could say I was putting the cart before the horse by doing the CV's before addressing the transmission mount issues.
I really need to make a trip to the local Pull-a-Part but here it has been just too stinking hot. I don't feel like dying in the heat just to retrieve some parts.
Anyways, back to the transmission mount issues:
1. I was originally going with the transmission mount from a 4T45E but that appears to be too excessive.
2, I am going with this transmission mount. I will have to do a little modifications to the base of the mount to fit correctly on the cradle.
My son is currently doing the modifications to the mount. The rear transmission mount is already in place. Just too difficult to get a good photo of the mount.
The build continues but a bit slower than what I would like!
This project is still alive, just slow currently. It's just too stinking hot here to be roaming in a Pull-a-Park looking for needed parts. The temperatures have been over 103 degress making unbearable to be looking for parts in the hot sun.
I am currently working on the mounting of the transmission to to the cradle. Also toying with ideas of making mods to the transmission.
[This message has been edited by Cajun (edited 08-22-2023).]
