I plan to jumper the ALDL to engage the full pump and siphon as much gas as I can out of my full fuel tank before dropping it to change out or clean the sending unit.
Here's what I had planned to do in this order:
1. Install battery, connect the cables 2. Disconnect line at fuel filter, remove the filter 3. Run a 5 - 6ft. hose from filter line to an empty gas can 4: Jump A & G pins to engage fuel pump 5. Key in the ON position
This would be done in a garage that's around 80* inside. There would be no smoking, no hammering going on, nor any electrical devices nearby that could cause a spark.
Would there happen to be any other precautions to take to prevent a fire or explosion before getting started?
Thank you in advance.
[This message has been edited by Brent7088 (edited 05-20-2022).]
I plan to jumper the ALDL to engage the full pump and siphon as much gas as I can out of my full fuel tank before dropping it to change out or clean the sending unit.
Here's what I had planned to do in this order:
1. Install battery, connect the cables 2. Disconnect line at fuel filter, remove the filter 3. Run a 5 - 6ft. hose from filter line to an empty gas can 4: Jump A & G pins to engage fuel pump 5. Key in the ON position
This would be done in a garage that's around 80* inside. There would be no smoking, no hammering going on, nor any electrical devices nearby that could cause a spark.
Would there happen to be any other precautions to take to prevent a fire or explosion before getting started?
Thank you in advance.
Wrong.
Ground neg battery term Connect pos battery term to ALDL G FP draws 7 - 10 amps and can drain the battery fast if you have a "full" tank. Do Not let the Battery to Die, < ~ 11 Volt or except need a new battery soon. Do Not let FP to Run Dry.
Make sure G is G. ALDL can be installed either way and pin layout changes for either case. β οΈ Warning: Do it outdoors! Gasoline Fumes are "heavy" and goes to the floor and have nasty habit finding any spark, hot thing or pilot light.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Nope. Gall757 is wrong too and I didn't notice at the time. Edit my top post in same thread to prevent this problem.
Brand New batteries will drain fast like this and damage them. FP don't like Low Volts either. Watch Volts and charge before gets to 11.5. Charge after anyway. Headlight On killing them is another example for people that have vehicles w/o BCM or other things that Shut Off the HL automatically.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Would help if charger is 6-10a minimum. but don't need "shop" charger/booster outputting a lot of amps.
Issue is many are "Smart Charger" and may flip out w/o a battery and refuse to turn on. Old very dump chargers need a battery just to smooth the volts.
FP and many other motors, relays, even wiring don't like low volts. See my Cave, Electric Motors
Is partly why many has fried FP every few years or even faster fail rate because never check wiring problems etc. Not just counterfeit parts does this.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Issue is many are "Smart Charger" and may flip out w/o a battery and refuse to turn on. Old very dump chargers need a battery just to smooth the volts.
Ogre, I wasn't suggesting not having a battery in the mix.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
How about having the charger connected to the batterywhile the fuel pump is running?
Hooking up my conventional charger to the battery while activating the fuel pump would be no problem; just don't know how well that would go over with the fuel line unhooked from below less than 2 feet away from the connections.
[This message has been edited by Brent7088 (edited 05-21-2022).]
Hooking up my conventional charger to the battery while activating the fuel pump would be no problem; just don't know how well that would go over with the fuel line unhooked from below less than 2 feet away from the connections.
Well, for one thing... there's no need to have the battery still located in its usual location. When I did this, I had my battery located well away from the car, with long battery cables connecting the positive of the battery to the fuel pump terminal on the ALDL port, and the negative cable to a ground inside the cab. Just make sure your garage is well ventilated. Use a fan if necessary.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-21-2022).]
I've drained the tank by using an 8' hose with the proper fitting that will attach directly to the fuel rail. I believe its an old R-12 A/C hose. Then I place that hose in a 5 gal gas can make the connection to pin G with +12V let it drain and keep an eye on it. I also use a battery charger on the battery and since there is little chance of gas leakage on the engine its a pretty safe method. On second thought the last time I used the pump to clear the tank I used a battery charger away from the engine compartment. I made a long wire with a pin on the end and plugged this into the ALDL connector and fed the power from a battery charger directly to the fuel pump. The gas pumped directly into a gas can with my hose that had the R-12 fitting that screwed onto the Schrader valve. This was the chance of sparking was minimal BUT after reading Theocres post the siphon method using the return hose sounds like the safest way and I will use that next time a tank needs draining. That appears to be the safest way but when you are handling a gas transfer there is no foolproof safe way. Gas is very volatile and any small spark nearby from a drop light or charger can cause a big fire. ------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 06-30-2022).]
Well, for one thing... there's no need to have the battery still located in its usual location. When I did this, I had my battery located well away from the car, with long battery cables connecting the positive of the battery to the fuel pump terminal on the ALDL port, and the negative cable to a ground inside the cab. Just make sure your garage is well ventilated. Use a fan if necessary.
Patrick - are you talking about one end of a thick battery cable going to the ALDL terminal? I'm not sure how I would insert that, being suck a thick cable. Also where did you clamp the negative cable onto inside the cab? Or could I just connect it to somewhere else under the front hood or the engine bay?
[This message has been edited by Brent7088 (edited 05-25-2022).]
I've drained the tank by using an 8' hose with the proper fitting that will attach directly to the fuel rail. I believe its an old R-12 A/C hose. Then I place that hose in a 5 gal gas can make the connection to pin G with +12V let it drain and keep an eye on it. I also use a battery charger on the battery and since there is little chance of gas leakage on the engine its a pretty safe method.
Dennis - Did you connect the R-12 hose to that schrader valve on the fuel rail? Also did you have the battery and charger connected to the car from a distance using extension cables or was the battery right inside the battery bay?
Patrick - are you talking about one end of a thick battery cable going to the ALDL terminal? I'm not sure how I would insert that, being suck a thick cable. Also where did you clamp the negative cable onto inside the cab? Or could I just connect it to somewhere else under the front hood or the engine bay?
Brent, this isn't rocket science. You obviously can't jam a jumper cable into a tiny ALDL terminal. Use a wire small enough to poke into the terminal, and clamp the positive jumper cable to that. In regards to the negative cable, it shouldn't be all that difficult to find something metal inside the cab that grounds to the frame. You've always got the option of using the ground terminal of the ALDL port.
I'm not trying to be an ass, but I hope you have someone a bit more experienced helping you out, considering you're dealing with a potentially dangerous situation.
Understood - I thought maybe there was a step of disconnecting part of the ALDL to make a different type of connection from behind, so I was a bit fuzzy on that. The only type of connections I've ever made was when jumping a dead battery, so I'm just not eager to jump in blind on this.
I was able to siphon out probably 2/3 or so of the tank after a couple rounds (charging the battery up each time), and on the 3rd attempt after a couple hours later to finish it out, nothing happened. I checked the fuse and it was good, but I assume doing it this method bypasses the fuse and the relay. Would the FP be dead at this point?
*With the first 2 attempts the FP ran just fine until I unhooked the negative cable.
[This message has been edited by Brent7088 (edited 06-29-2022).]
return line and EVAP vent are smaller then feed line to engine on many setups. Can just pull both and return will still have some gas in it. Return line blows bubbles when air is push thru. Many tempted to blow but not good idea. Gas still is poison even w/o lead.
Note that If tank is under ~ ΒΌ don't bother emptying in the car. 2-3 gallon won't spill and isn't very heavy. If tries to siphon, just pinch/plug the line or tip the tank so gas goes to front.
Put cardboard or scrap carpet on flood so don't scratch off the coating on the tank when using jackstands and/or ramps.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 07-01-2022).]
The reported capacity of the Fiero fuel pump is 16 gallons per hour. Therefore, it should be possible to empty the tank in about 1/2 hour. A typical car battery has a capacity of 50 amps-hrs. If the fuel pump draws 10 amps for 1/2 hour that is 5 amp-hrs. The battery should have plenty of capacity. If the battery goes flat then it is on the way out and should be replaced. I don't remember exactly how long it took the last time I emptied the tank but it was minutes not hours. It it takes longer than an hour the fuel pump is bad or the screen on the suction of the pump is partially plugged.
------------------ formerly known as sanderson 1984 Quad 4 1886 SE 2.8L 1988 4.9L Cadillac 1988 3800 Supercharged
Thanks for the advice ogre. I finally got most of it siphoned out and all the lines are loose, and I'm down to the wiring harness.
I got the plug disconnected and I see it's connected just below the firewall, but can't seem to get it loose from either top or bottom to push it on through. Do I just give it a yank with pliers to pull it out of the loom? Red arrow shows what I'm referring to:
[This message has been edited by Brent7088 (edited 07-02-2022).]
If someone didn't mess w/ it before... Don't think anything beside plug attach to the wires to the tank. But watch out for clip(s) tie-raps or similar between plug and frame hole.
Plug should go thru the hole in frame to drop the tank. Can be hard to see but frame hole is "oval" shape can snag the plug if turn "wrong." If has a vent hose etc in the hole, they may need to clear the hole before the plug. Wires can snag or tangle even w/ over rap that protects them.
