I read up on all the threads on this. I bled the clutch w the pump bleeder and w the gravity and 2 person method. Clutch feels great. Slave arm only moves about 5/8", clutch pedal is level w the brake, both I know are wrong. Suspected the pedal was bent but it looks square, even put my framing square on it to check, its good. I can see marks in the carpet from the pedal going to the floor. Today I played w it smore and found if I take off the master cyl rod that connects to the pedal, the clutch can move 1" above the brake. It would also hit that top switch thats there. The PO mightve been having clutch issues because there was a new clutch master in the trunk, found out its for an earlier model. It has the same length shaft. I ordered rodneys adjustable banjo but did my pedal assy move toward the front of the car or what? Why would the rod be not long enough to let the pedal fully retract?
...did my pedal assy move toward the front of the car or what? Why would the rod be not long enough to let the pedal fully retract?
I have noticed a difference in clutch pedal banjo length (and it's very easy to make an adjustable banjo), but I suspect your clutch pedal is bent. Make sure to install the banjo with the loop upwards.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-15-2023).]
Changed the clutch. Pedal worked before. No work after. No idea what the hell happened. Pedal equal height with brake before and after, rod to short to fully extend. Rodney's banjo fixed the problem. Never had an issue since.
Check slave not leaking just because, they love to fail, I think I have gone through 3 at this point. But pedal not retracting fully sounds like an issue in the master or with how the banjo and pedal is hooked up, or a bent pedal bracket thinger.
The other common issue is a broken clutch fork arm, but I don't think that is your issue.
[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 05-17-2023).]
Master rod is about .75" too short, keeps the pedal from going all the way up past the brake pedal. Ordered an adjustable banjo from rodneys, but Patricks post and my impatience to drive my new car got the best of me. Hit home depot after work yesterday looking for one of those long bolt thingies, but couldnt find one or something similar. Looked around but couldnt find anything solid at home, but did find a chunka hunka 5/8" rebar and used it. Cut the rod and tapped both ends and made it all work. Clutch pedal sits well above the brake pedal, and I have full throw of the master now. Started bleeding it, kept getting air out. Found a thread where archie recommends bleeding the slave, tried that and now the slave is leaking thru the orings lol. Got rodneys dual seal kit coming.
I do not recall my banjo being bent up like that...
Yes, it's bent quite a bit! Supposed to be straight, like this...
quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:
Hit home depot after work yesterday looking for one of those long bolt thingies, but couldnt find one or something similar. Looked around but couldnt find anything solid at home, but did find a chunka hunka 5/8" rebar and used it. Cut the rod and tapped both ends and made it all work.
What an abomination! Good thing it's only temporary.
OH! LOL so it is bent lmao, I read so many threads where they all said to MAKE SURE its pointing up. Mine was pointing up so I thought I was good there, not! lol. The hits just keep on comin. https://external-content.du...aa5286439&ipo=images
I ordered a new master too. Patrick that was exactly what I was looking for, couldnt find one by itself or on a gate adjuster thingie. Fingers crossed everything shows up by friday.
Years ago I had disengagement problems on my 86 and I ended up using Rodney’s adjustable banjo and a longer rod in my slave cylinder. Like 1/2” longer. I was just really tired of it disengaging right at the floor and having trouble with 1st and reverse. After I did that I never had much trouble getting that perfect bleed just so I could shift.
Years ago I had disengagement problems on my 86 and I ended up using Rodney’s adjustable banjo and a longer rod in my slave cylinder. Like 1/2” longer.
It's been stated many many times here over the years, that a longer (than factory) push rod for the slave makes absolutely no difference with the amount of clutch fork travel... due to the way a hydraulic clutch operates. The improvement in disengagement you experienced would've been entirely due to the longer banjo, which was allowing full stroke of the pedal.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-19-2023).]
This is what I used to create my adjustable banjo.... a coupling nut... probably 1/4"-20.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
Turns out the coupling nut is actually 5/16"-18.
I was poking around my basement, and I found the adjustable banjo that I had made for my Formula. I had forgotten that when I replaced its clutch master, I used the banjo that came with the new master, as it was the same length as what my adjustable banjo had been set to. It's not pretty, but it worked well when I needed it.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-20-2023).]
Thanks for fixing that link Patrick, I dunno how . Coupling nut! That was the term that escaped me but exactly what I was looking for and couldnt find. Def not my best work but best I could do w what was on hand and im an impatient mofo. Anywho, both rodneys orders and the new clutch master showed late yesterday. I swapped the banjo on the master and the dubble seal deal on the slave so itd be reddy fer today. Got at it at 7am and it fought me fought me fought me. Pedal travel maxed out, no air, feels great, no clutch. Bumping the starter in gear w the clutch in as my test. Everything I tried just didnt work. Slave will not move past 3/4", even bled the slave w the bleeder removed and compressing it w one hand while I install the bleeder. OW! Still nothing. Cuz came over to help, we tried the old skool bleeding. Then the new master took a chit lol. Had my kids tball game so hadta leave. Came back later and installed the old abomination , bled it, feels good, still dragging. Checking the amount of travel w a 6' level to push the clutch while I watch it. It will not move more than 3/4". No way jose. Id have to see it on another car to believe it, done hundreds of clutches and never had this much trubble. The forks gotta be bent, and im not dropping the motor to check, so I threw a 9mm deep socket on the end of the slave rod and bolted it up. Guess whos got some clutch action baby! Drove the car for the first time! Got halfway down the street before I remembered the tires are beyond shot and turned around lol.
I installed an Isuzu clutch slave cylinder on my 3800 swap with a Getrag 5 speed several years ago to reduce clutch pedal travel, it has a smaller bore. My clutch pedal is level with the brake pedal and it has made shifting better on my car. I would not go back to the Getrag slave cylinder.
Slave will not move past 3/4"... so I threw a 9mm deep socket on the end of the slave rod and bolted it up. Guess whos got some clutch action baby!
happy happy dawg dawg
Yes, I understand you're happy... for now ... but something is still messed up.
With any of the banjos you have there installed, does the clutch pedal sit 1" above the brake pedal... with no pressure on the master?
With the clutch pedal at that height, pushing it to the floor will easily move the slave push rod 1-1/8"... on a system with a good master, good slave, and properly bled.
This is a 5-spd Getrag correct? Any idea how long the slave push rod is? It makes no sense that extending it with a socket allows the clutch to now disengage, unless the push rod is shorter than it's supposed to be, or the lever it pushes against is cracked, or the fork is buggered.
Larry thank you for the link, off all the clutch threads I found and read I never saw a mention of using the big joe izuzu slave. Ill try that if this clutch stops working before the swap or during. Tired of playing w the clutch.
Patrick the clutch pedal is well above the brake now, no pressure on it, and it starts moving the slave the instant you push the pedal and doesnt bottom out on the master. Just wont move more than 3/4" no matter what. There is no air in the clutch lines. So either the quality of these new parts is questionable, or I have a bent fork. The very best I could get it, I could pop it out of gear w the motor running but not go into gears. The socket I put on the slave rod extends it by about 5/16" and it doesnt travel that much more now, but It does let me shift. And it feels good, no rubbing or grinding. Other than my bad select cable. Gonna do a clutch troubleshooting write up w all the info I found one of these days.
I had a 2008 Jeep Patriot with only 87k miles on it... the day before I was going to move from Texas to Florida, I was going to tow it with my Crown Victoria. I could NOT get it into gear... (or in this case, out of gear if it had been in gear). The clutch slave cyl had sprung a leak, and that was that.
I realized at that point, it wasn't meant to be... so I donated it to the first place that could pick it up the next morning... which was Make a Wish foundation. It had been a fantastic car, but it was a spare car, and I was like F-it... still a little pissed, but Make a Wish ended up getting ~$2,800 for it at auction, so good for them.
Larry thank you for the link, off all the clutch threads I found and read I never saw a mention of using the big joe izuzu slave. Ill try that if this clutch stops working before the swap or during. Tired of playing w the clutch.
shem
I have a Spec Stage 3+ in my 3800 swap and with a new Rodney master and Getrag slave I had to press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor to keep the clutch from dragging when shifting. My DD clutch pedal didn't need any where near that much travel and my left foot likes to do the same thing in both cars so I was always getting difficult shifts due to clutch not fully disengaging. Installing the Isuzu slave fixed it.
Patrick the clutch pedal is well above the brake now, no pressure on it, and it starts moving the slave the instant you push the pedal and doesnt bottom out on the master. Just wont move more than 3/4" no matter what. There is no air in the clutch lines. So either the quality of these new parts is questionable, or I have a bent fork.
The slave needs to move 1-1/8" to properly disengage the clutch. If your slave is only moving 3/4", I don't understand how you can come to the possible conclusion that you have "a bent fork". I'd only suspect the fork if your slave was indeed moving 1-1/8" and yet the clutch was still failing to disengage... but that's not your issue.
I know you're sick of working on it, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you have to, but sooner or later it's going to bite you... as something is wrong (and it's not the fork). It's a matter of physics. When the master cylinder is depressed, the amount of fluid displaced will move the slave cylinder a similar distance (if the bore size is the same). The bore sizes may be a bit different, but you catch my drift. Considering how far the piston in the master cylinder can be moved (if everything up front is working correctly and the pedal has a full stroke), it makes no sense that the slave is only moving 3/4 of an inch. Either the line and/or internal seals are leaking and/or there is air in the system.
Did you say that you had installed a Dickman clutch master cylinder? If I recall correctly, I believe there have been reported issues with some of them.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-21-2023).]
If you are able to fit a deep socket in there it just seems like the rod coming out of the slave is too short, the piston in the slave may not be anywhere near its furthest retracted position and therefore is missing a bunch of available travel as it is starting at mid stroke and hitting the snap ring at the end of the bore after only 3/4" of travel. Seems to be the case as you are able to fit that deep socket in there, the piston is moving farther into the slave with the extra length of the socket, and the pedal is returning to full height because the MASTER cylinder's bore is actually filling fully with fluid as the SLAVE now retracts fully when you release the pedal due to the extra length. I think your solution will be to modify the rod coming out of the slave permanently at this longer length.
Is there a chance there is already an Isuzu slave installed and the rod installed is the shorter one for a Getrag? I have an Isuzu slave and trans but a Spec 2+ clutch (same pressure plate and clutch for all the Fiero trans, just different TOB) and my pedal is super heavy due to the smaller slave bore and high performance clutch, but I only have to push it in like halfway to disengage the clutch, which I like for faster shifting. The Getrag slave has a larger bore and there less movement with the same master to reduce pedal effort (pounds / square inch * cylinder area in2 = pounds of force at clutch fork)
I would verify that there is nothing obviously cracked in the clutch arm on the outside of the trans, and that it is not at some weird angle (it is on a splined shaft and could have been be rotated by a PO) and if so put a longer slave rod on there and call it a day until something changes/breaks.
[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 05-22-2023).]
If you are able to fit a deep socket in there it just seems like the rod coming out of the slave is too short...
My suspicion as well. When Shem didn't respond to that specific question, I figured he must've measured the slave push rod and it was the correct length, but...
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-22-2023).]
Thought it was a bent fork because theres no way that trans arm the slave rod pushes will move that far. New master went bad so im using the abominator master. I put a wood dowel to hold the clutch to the floor, then try to wedge the fork arm back further to see if it will. Takes a lot of force just to wedge something between them and common sense says that arm moves back anymore, somethings gonna break. The deep socket is not replacing the slave rod, it is installed OVER the slave rod so the ratchet end is facing the fork arm thingie. Really it extends the slave rod by maybe 3/16" but its enuf to let the trans shift. Def a getrag slave.
I have a big ol 6' level I can push the clutch in while watching the slave rod move. The instant the pedal starts to move, the slave moves in unison till about 3/4 of the way, then pedal travel goes to a 2:1 till the very end it just moves maybe another 1/8" with the last bit of pedal. So its not a proportional move the entire way, probably because its starting to hit the pressure plate.
Eff it, its done it works. Gonna drive it, drove it a bit today. Picking up izuzu slave tomorrow if more clutch issues resurface. Me thinks the brand new flywheel is too fat, and the clutch disc has some extra meat on the bone causing the issues. Ive had new brake pads be too thick to fit into the caliper, thinkin same kinda issue.
Right but can you push the slave rod back into the slave at all? That's really what I was saying. I believe the piston is starting mid stroke. The deep socket may be putting it close to or all the way into its bore.
[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 05-22-2023).]
No the slave rod is bottomed out as the last part of the bleeding(with the bleeder completely removed), its definitely starting from as far back as it can go.
But was it that way prior to putting the deep socket in there? I just have a strong feeling that the issue was just that your slave rod was undersized which is why adding the socket fixed it. But I am just a dude behind a keyboard and you are actually wrenching on the car so I will shut up
Yeah it was before I put the socket on. Did it 3 times to be safe lol. I was all outta options and pretty friggin frustrated at that point so I tried the socket. It works n im walkin away from messing w it.......... lol
Good thing it's only temporary. 
... but something is still messed up.
I'd only suspect the fork if your slave was indeed moving 1-1/8" and yet the clutch was still failing to disengage... but that's not your issue.
