I have a 4 speed 4 cylinder 1984 Fiero. It seems like the clutch pushrod is too short or something. ive checked all the hydraulics, it's nothing to do with that. the slave cylinder bottoms out before the clutch is fully disengaged. I have replaced almost everything in the hydraulic system, so I'm wondering if something along the line got replaced with the wrong part. what should I check?
The clutch pedal has 2 switches on it. The start (clutch down) safety switch and cruise control "off" switch (if you have cruise control).
They may be pressing down on the pedal, not allowing full "up" position and shortening the stroke.
Pull the clutch pedal UP all the way. The switches should self-adjust if they were down too far.
no, this isn't right. the slave cylinder stops the clutch pedal from going all the way down because it's gone as far as it can go. everything before the clutch arm and pushrod is working perfect. if I push the pushrod into the body of the slave cylinder, I get full travel of the pedal, but not of the clutch itself.
If the clutch disk or release bearing is worn out you can get these symptoms. also check the nylon insert in the clutch arm. They can crack or wear . sleek
What is the length of the push rod you currently have installed?
it is 136 mm. I tried replacing the pushrod with a slightly longer (by about a cm) extension. The clutch disengages fully, but also extra. I don't imagine the 2 mm difference between the pushrods is large enough to make a difference. would that difference really matter that much?
I tried replacing the pushrod with a slightly longer (by about a cm) extension. The clutch disengages fully, but also extra. would that difference really matter that much?
"also extra"?
It only takes a fraction on an inch difference in slave travel to make all the difference in the world disengaging the Fiero's clutch. If someone installed a shorter than factory push rod, and this was resulting in the slave reaching the end of its travel before disengaging the clutch... then yes, a 2.5 mm longer push rod might be enough to make a difference.
We've been down this road before with your clutch. The slave needs to move about 1-1/8" to disengage the clutch properly.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-18-2023).]
It only takes a fraction on an inch difference in slave travel to make all the difference in the world disengaging the Fiero's clutch. If someone installed a shorter than factory push rod, and this was resulting in the slave reaching the end of its travel before disengaging the clutch... then yes, a 2.5 mm longer push rod might be enough to make a difference.
We've been down this road before with your clutch. The slave needs to move about 1-1/16" to disengage the clutch properly.
ah, sorry. been a long day, I didn't fully read your reply through and thought 138 mm was the spec i was going for. I'll see about getting a 143 mm pushrod.
I know the slave needs to move that much, which is why I thought the pushrod was too short, since the slave bottomed out before moving out that much while pushing the clutch arm.
Thank you for the help! I'll let you know if the longer pushrod fixes the issue.
also when I say extra, I mean the clutch engages with the pedal much higher than it ought to. like the clutch arm is extended further than it's meant to.
Why is anyone still debating anything? 99.9% of the time any clutch slave travel is ALWAYS a bent clutch pedal........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Shimmed Slaves, Adjustable banjos are always and only a band aid for a bent clutch pedal
[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 06-18-2023).]
Why is anyone still debating anything? 99.9% of the time any clutch slave travel is ALWAYS a bent clutch pedal...
Read the thread! The slave was apparently reaching the end of its travel when the pedal was depressed. More travel at the pedal/master wouldn't solve a thing in this situation.
Read the thread! The slave was apparently reaching the end of its travel when the pedal was depressed. More travel at the pedal/master wouldn't solve a thing in this situation.
been there done that a hundred times over, over the past 30 years I made a healthy living sending Fiero customers away totally satisfied. If I had a Nickle for every bent clutch pedal that big old crescent wrench fixed I'd have twice the money
[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 06-18-2023).]
been there done that a hundred times over, over the past 30 years I made a healthy living sending Fiero customers away totally satisfied. If I had a Nickle for every bent clutch pedal that big old crescent wrench fixed I'd have twice the money
I know all about bent clutch pedals.
Judging from what the OP has stated, this isn't the typical "bent clutch pedal" scenario. However, there's no point you and I arguing about it, as neither one of us is in a position to know exactly what's going on. We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome is.
Judging from what the OP has stated, this isn't the typical "bent clutch pedal" scenario. However, there's no point you and I arguing about it, as neither one of us is in a position to know exactly what's going on. We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome is.
You do Patrick yes, and you also know you never start throwing parts until you know that Clutch pedal is back within spec, which is why anytime a clutch release issue is posted there needs to be a sticky on clutch pedals.
[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 06-18-2023).]
whatever it was that stuck bent the pedal. it's not terribly bent and it's too cold for me to want to take the pedal out. It's not terrible and it's probably time to start getting upgrade parts instead of replacement parts to make up for 80s GM cost-cutting. gonna buy an adjustable banjo.
So yes, it sounds like a bent pedal might be a factor here... but how much of a factor is still to be determined. It is my experience that a bent pedal results in not enough travel at the master and slave. I'm sure we're both in agreement on that. However, the OP has stated that the slave piston is reaching the far end of the bore (towards the transmission) when the pedal is pushed. The slave piston cannot physically go any farther. I don't understand how adding more throw at the pedal/master end (if indeed it's possible) will be able to move the clutch release arm any further. (This is why I suspected, and it's been confirmed, that the slave push rod is shorter than the specified factory length.)
After reading those old threads again, I do have several questions for the OP...
- Did you install the adjustable banjo? - Where is your clutch pedal sitting in relation to the brake pedal? And don't just say "above" ... how far above? - If you were to disconnect the banjo from the pedal, can the pedal still be moved a tiny bit towards you? (There needs to be a bit of free play.) - And finally... when your pedal is pushed and the slave reaches the end of its bore, is your clutch pedal still above the floorboard. In other words, is the "bottomed out" slave preventing your pedal from reaching the floor?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-18-2023).]
Watching this thread as I am having a similar issue. Here’s what I have and a thought on what’s going on. I have the steel clutch pedal, new clutch, SS lines, Rodney’s master and slave. Clutch fork was inspected when motor and trans were out of car. So, bled the master, banjo up, clear fluid at slave. Slave only moves about 3/4”. Grabbed slave rod, pulled back while buddy opened bleeder, barely any fluid came out. Did this 4 times. After a while of pondering…..I had my buddy slowly push the pedal down while I watched the slave rod….pedal moved a bit before rod did….so I thought “let’s move the banjo so the rod moves as soon as the pedal is pressed. At that point I could get it into gear while running but it didn’t feel,right. Felt like It was bottoming out the MC…..not cool. So I’m stuck on what to do next. This maybe the answer…haven’t tried it yet. Since the system is a very basic hydraulic set up when you push the rod back into the slave it should just push the fluid back to the MC….correct ? So maybe there needs to be a bit of pressure on the pedal to put the master into the “fluid pushing operation” then try pushing the rod into the slave and crack open the bleeder to get air out….does this make sense?
If the clutch will not "press down..." The Arm on the pedal is likely bent.
Arm sides should be parallel and straight but often have hydro or other problems and clutch side bends and twisted to the pedal side.
Pull out the pedal and lay flat on floor etc so can see this easier.
Putting "Adjusdable" or other long push rod w/ bent pedal just make arm to bend more and repeat the problem.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
If the clutch will not "press down..." The Arm on the pedal is likely bent.
Arm sides should be parallel and straight but often have hydro or other problems and clutch side bends and twisted to the pedal side.
Pull out the pedal and lay flat on floor etc so can see this easier.
Putting "Adjusdable" or other long push rod w/ bent pedal just make arm to bend more and repeat the problem.
this forum is really frustrating to me. READ THE THREAD. it doesn't go all the way to the floor because the SLAVE is bottomed out. the piston in the slave is touching the circlip when the pedal is only like halfway down. EVERYTHING BEFORE THE PUSHROD IS WORKING PERFECTLY, NO LEAKS, AIR IS BLED, PEDAL IS STRAIGHT, I JUST REPLACED IT.
You do Patrick yes, and you also know you never start throwing parts until you know that Clutch pedal is back within spec, which is why anytime a clutch release issue is posted there needs to be a sticky on clutch pedals.
I'll see if I can find a clutch pedal that's more straight than my already straight clutch pedal. maybe it'll break through the circlip at the end of the slave cylinder and I'll be able to press it to the floor.
an update for anyone who was wondering if this was the issue. i bought a bolt and cut it down to the right length and rounded the tips and it works perfectly. shifts into every gear with no grinding. thank you all for your help!!
Tittle is "clutch pushrod too short??" Is why you got bent arm as said above. Because Many Will Not dig thru you long post to find 1 detail for many reason even if they Read the top post.
Slave push all the way out and still can't disengage the clutch Disk... The Level to Clutch Rod on the trans is Bent. GM had "recall" for some arms and replacing w/ stronger arm. Go search PFF. Rod Assem, Throwout or Clutch Pack itself is bad/broken. Example: Rod w/ iffy bearing or forks the hit the TO Bearing worn often changes if/when the clutch works. Or Not work at all if those parts are worn bad. Slave is wrong or is installed wrong for whatever reason on some trans.
Hydro Clutches are 100% Non Adjustable on 99+% of vehicles using them. 99+% of Hydro and Cable setups have 0 Travel for the TO Bearing to hit the Clutch Pack as well. They are Not like most linkage setups that can't "Self adjust" for wear in the Pack.
So you should see clutch pack loading very fast as soon as you push the pedal even if the rod between slave and whatever is "short."
i bought a bolt and cut it down to the right length and rounded the tips and it works perfectly. shifts into every gear with no grinding.
Good. It seemed like the only obvious solution.
Whomever originally installed that short slave push rod deserves a kick in the azz.
quote
Originally posted by katie80:
PEDAL IS STRAIGHT, I JUST REPLACED IT.
I wish you could've mentioned this earlier in the thread... as it would've saved ME a lot of typing trying to explain why I didn't believe a lack of throw at the pedal/master was the problem.
Except long rod can, likely will, fail again if have just about any deflects I list just above.
What is this "long rod" business? The OP has now installed a slave push rod that is the regulation factory length... and surprise surprise, the clutch is finally disengaging properly! This thread has gotten absolutely ridiculous.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-19-2023).]
Relax guys ; You all have the answers to the possible clutch problems and this and all the other threads will be repeated everytime someone is having a clutch problem. I think this is good as it reiterates the possible solutions to the clutch problems that show up. I'm sure most of us have trouble remembering all the possible causes of a clutch problem so repeating this process is good especially for the old farts like me in this group. sleek
I wish you could've mentioned this earlier in the thread... as it would've saved ME a lot of typing trying to explain why I didn't believe a lack of throw at the pedal/master was the problem.
I had written this post before, more clearly and it didn't post for whatever reason and I seem to have omitted that detail from this version. I did say the slave was bottoming out and preventing any more travel from the master and pedal.
Well, to be honest, saying the slave was "bottoming out" only confused the issue further... as IMO (and possibly, in other people's opinion), "bottoming out" indicated that the slave piston at rest was at the bottom of its travel. In other words, it was as far back in the bore as it could go. This can happen when a longer than factory slave push rod has been swapped in. However, you had the opposite problem! Your slave piston was reaching the end, or the top of its travel in the bore when the clutch pedal was being depressed, not the bottom (due to the shorter than factory push rod that had been swapped in).
Think of a shock absorber. When it's "bottoming out", it's not fully extended... it's fully compressed.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-19-2023).]
... how far above?
The OP has now installed a slave push rod that is the regulation factory length... and surprise surprise, the clutch is finally disengaging properly! This thread has gotten absolutely ridiculous. 
