I can imagine there have been numerous postings about this problem and was able to find a couple of topics, but I decided to discuss my situation in detail. I have a 1987 Base / Iron Duke / 5 Speed. Master & Slave replaced yesterday, bled 3+ times and nothing has improved shift wise. When the engine is off, I can shift in all gears with the clutch pushed and not pushed. But when the engine is running, no shifting allowance in any gears. My do-it-yourself fiero repair level is low experience and I am reaching out to see if anybody could provide their thoughts towards this problem. Thanks in advance.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-03-2023).]
I can imagine there have been numerous postings about this problem and was able to find a couple of topics, but I decided to discuss my situation in detail.
This has been discussed about a million times at this forum. Here are almost 70 threads to start with. There are only so many ways we can ask... how far above your brake pedal does the clutch pedal sit at rest... how far does your slave move when the clutch is pushed to the floor... etc.
Did you buy a double seal slave from Rodney? If not, you've made things much tougher on yourself.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-03-2023).]
I couldn’t download the short video of the slave cylinder in action, but the first photo shows the slave cylinder not depressed. The second photo is the slave cylinder status with the clutch pedal pressed towards the floor.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-03-2023).]
I am no expert, but have been through this myself. First, your photo shows a clutch pedal LOWER than your brake pedal- should be the other way around. Second, your clutch pedal arm appears to be twisted- a common problem with many Fieros. The travel on your slave pushrod from your before and after photo would indicate not enough pushrod travel to activate the clutch. I would go first with the bent clutch pedal; replacing that would maybe solve your problem. Look at it underneath and see if the pin for the master pushrod and banjo is at right angles to the rest of the pedal arm. There are threads with pictures that show the good and the bad ( I don’t know how to download them. ) If that doesn’t fix your problem, bleeding procedure is also well covered on this forum. There is, as Patrick stated, TONS of info dealing with this issue. At some time or another, all of us will probably deal with it!
Stevep914, Thank you! The information you’ve provided is appreciated. I am new to this website and will look for more information related. Have a good day.
...your clutch pedal arm appears to be twisted- a common problem with many Fieros.
Steve, we've been down this road before.
quote
Originally posted by stevep914:
One other thing: I believe my pedal is aluminum, not steel it has an interesting twist in it. Not knowing what anything other than mine looks like, and assuming a bent pedal would provide a consistant problem, I don’t know if this is a contributing factor. Anyone able to post a picture of a normal clutch pedal I could compare mine to? I know many have converted to a steel pedal when the stock one bent.
Steve, they all have an "interesting twist". That's how they're made. What you're looking for is a bent bracket on the pedal. I first posted this photo of my clutch pedals ages ago.
If your clutch pedal sits 1-1/2" above your brake pedal as you reported, it's probably fine... although I still think that's higher than usual. Is your banjo adjustable?
Fieros4evr, your clutch pedal is definitely bent. An adjustable banjo may rectify the problem.
This is one that I made using a 5/16"-18 coupling nut...
Those images of your slave movement would be great... if you had placed a tape measure or ruler in view to show the distance it's traveling. I suspect however with the amount your pedal is bent that it isn't the 1-1/8" required.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-03-2023).]
Thank you Patrick for your recommendations. Attached are 2 images. I did the best I could placing the ruler in that limited space area. The first photo is the clutch slave measurement without the clutch pedal not pushed. The 2nd image is the clutch cylinder extended distance with the clutch pedal pressed towards the floor.
I did the best I could placing the ruler in that limited space area.
Well, unfortunately it's next to impossible to tell from those photos how far the slave is actually traveling... but you now know it needs to be at least 1-1/8".
When the clutch pedal bracket gets bent, the pedal then hits the floor before the master is able to travel its full stroke... which then limits the travel of the slave. An adjustable banjo can often help regain enough travel... as long as the pedal isn't bent excessively.
I really appreciate all your help Patrick. I have started looking for a new clutch pedal and will order a replacement. I am also going to do what you did making an adjustable extension to the banjo. I will keep you posted with the results.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-04-2023).]
I have started looking for anew clutch pedal and will order a replacement. I am also going to do what you did making an adjustable extension to the banjo.
You should only have to do one or the other.
Make sure the cause of your low pedal isn't simply a bent banjo. It does happen.
And yes, the loop is installed pointing up.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-04-2023).]
That photo helps. Thanks. So I decided to go and take a closer look underneath the d/s dash for a closer look at the clutch setup. Here is what I am seeing:
What is this pink/yellow wire for? I noticed that added wire to the connector.
I also noticed that the white plastic piece is not functional and hanging loosely to the top clutch pedal arm, What does that do? Thanks.
That white switch, which has been bypassed with a jumper, is a safety feature to prevent trying to start the car while in gear. With the way it was configured at the factory, the starter couldn't be energized unless the clutch pedal was depressed.
Thank You. Patrick, You have taught me a lot today. I was looking at the master cylinder rod that you mentioned. (Photos below).So far not bent and it was positioned just like your photo. I ordered the clutch pedal. I will let you know when it arrives and is installed.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-04-2023).]
As usual Patrick’s info is spot on,! Your tape measure photos show only about 1/2 inch of slave travel - far from enough. Either the pedal replacement and/or adjustable banjo should give you enough. Trust me ; been there done that!
I can’t thank you both enough. This information is greatly appreciated. I will plan on switching out the pedal and banjo. I will provide an update once these parts are replaced.
Finally, The new clutch pedal & bushings arrived. I will have a following update once this is installed. Please feel free to share any thoughts or advice.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-14-2023).]
UPDATE - I spent the evening taking out the old clutch pedal (Took me 2 hours) haha. I just finally got this pedal out. Below are photos of the old (left) & new (right) pedal side by side. I will resume installing the new clutch pedal in about 1 hour just in case I see some messages here that might be important before I proceed. You guys have been very helpful and I appreciate all your assistance as I take on this repair for the first time.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-20-2023).]
Patrick, I checked as you told me, the banjo fitting to the new clutch pedal. The old clutch pedal had a plastic bushing mounted in between the inner loop (Photo 1). I removed the plastic bushing and the banjo fits perfectly with the new clutch pedal.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-20-2023).]
Hi Patrick, To answer your question about this new pedal. I ordered it on the Fiero Store website and specifically provided information that my Fiero was a 1987 Base/ 2.5L. That pedal you see was what they sent to me. I too noticed the difference of that part of the pedal. Will this work for a 1987 Iron Duke manual? Thanks!
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-20-2023).]
I looked up the replacement clutch pedal at FS Here. They only supply the older style pedal. They try to get around this by saying... "This pedal does not require the master cylinder rod bushing (64900)." IMO, that's a BS way of supplying the wrong pedal for anyone with the newer style pedal/banjo.
I now see your point. I will contact TFS and have it shipped on Monday to exchange. Once I receive the correct pedal, I will give a future update. I appreciate the information.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-20-2023).]
I will re-install my old clutch pedal as soon as the adjustable banjo arrives from RD.
Also get the double seal slave piston from RD. With the adjustable banjo i made and the RD (Toyota) double seal slave piston i have not had another problem.
MANY of us have been down this road. You can do it too!
To me it looks like your old pedal is twisted. If so I would get it straightened and reinforced so when you put it back together you can use the correct original parts so the clutch will work correctly. with the pedal straightened you will get full stroke on the master cylinder and therefore full stroke on the slave. sleek
I will go that route getting my original pedal worked on. I tried to make adjustments myself today, but I do not have any proper setups or restraints here for me to do that. I will find a way and repair the pedal. I’m also looking forward to the adjustable banjo.
[This message has been edited by Fieros4evr (edited 08-20-2023).]
I will go that route getting my original pedal worked on. I tried to make adjustments myself today, but I do not have any proper setups or restraints here for me to do that. I will find a way and repair the pedal.
It's not unheard of to bend the pedal bracket back into shape... but the problem with doing so is that the pedal will have then been bent twice, and will now suffer from additional metal fatigue. It will therefore have a tendency to bend again more easily. Sure, you can add support by welding on some extra metal... but IMO this is all unnecessary.
As stated in my previous post, your pedal isn't bent that badly. If it was my pedal, I'd just leave it the way it is. I'm pretty confident the adjustable banjo alone will be enough to give you back full stoke of the master cylinder.
Anyway, I won't harp on this any further unless asked to do so.
You are correct that adjusting will have the tendency to bend again. But seeing that nobody sells the latest clutch pedal, that made me think to have mine fixed and add the extra reinforcement piece that other Fiero owners are doing. But anyway, Hearing from you Patrick my current clutch pedal condition, I will only get the adjustable banjo & disregard any clutch pedal work. I look forward to driving this Fiero, having easier shifting back again.
If it was mine…I’d straighten it. Bench vise and a big crescent wrench will work. It looks twisted by the pedal and the pivot point. I don’t think cold bending it will affect the strength much plus the geometry will be correct. That pedal was prob pressed thousands of times in its life. I put in Rodney’s master and it has a bronze bushing and didn’t need the plastic one.
[This message has been edited by PhatMax (edited 08-20-2023).]
You are right 82-T/A .
