Hi all. Pretty new poster but have read a bunch on this forum. I just got a 1988 Formula a few weeks ago so am new to the Fiero world. Also pretty inexperienced mechanic skills but hoping to improve that now that I have a 30yr old car. Looking for advise on an issue I'm having.
Anyway, the car is a v6 manual and worked perfectly at time of purchase. I didn't drive it too much due to the very bad tires but enough to get an idea of how it felt. I finally got new wheels on it and went ahead and put new rotors on as well since the old ones were pretty rusty and the car came with a brand new extra set. I didn't change the brake pads as they looked fine. All good and I started driving it fairly regularly on short trips.
A few days later I noticed the car doesn't have as much power as I remembered. I don't think this happened at the same time as the brake/wheel work...I'm fairly sure it ran as normal for a few days before I noticed the lack of power. But it is somewhat subtle and if I'm not trying to quickly accelerate it can be easy to miss. I only mention the wheel/brake work as it is the only thing I've done to the car. Just to test to make sure there wasn't rubbing or locked up, while off I disengaged the ebrake and pushed the car back and forth on a flat driveway...it pushed very easily. I figured that if anything was rubbing I'd have heard or felt the resistance. Educate me if that is not a valid assumption.
Anyway, the car can get up to speed but it doesn't have the acceleration it used to. I almost have the accelerator touching the floor in first gear before I get moving enough to go to 2nd. Once moving it can maintain speed but again, just lacks power. I'll be in 4th on a slight hill going around 50 and have to have the pedal to the floor to maintain that speed in that gear. It is also struggling to get up my steep driveway in 1st a bit.
I haven't had a lot of time to investigate, the only thing I've done so far is to check the air filter to make sure there wasn't a blockage keeping air from getting in. All seemed ok there. I plan to pull the wheels and doublecheck the brakes again just to make sure I didn't mess something up...but again I figure that if I can freely spin the wheel then that should eliminate that possibility, right?
Any ideas on what the likely culprit is or the easiest things I could start to check first?
EDIT: No cat on the car.
UPDATE: - 5/24: added the LinquiMolly fuel additive with a new tank of gas. Today I ran out for a short errand and the Service Engine Soon light came on. I checked and it is throwing code 44: Lean exhaust indicated (Left side on dual oxygen modules). I looked through the forum and it seemed there were a bunch of possible causes for this but maybe someone has a suggestion on this code combined with my loss of pep.
-Changed the air filter at some point I forget when.
- 6/1: Tested the fuel pressure. Primed it reads 40psi. When running it started at 35psi but went to 40 when driving. When stopped and turned off, pressure still read 36psi a half hour later. 12 hrs later it read 23psi. That all seems normal based on my internet reading so I assume I can rule out the fuel pump? I also changed the fuel filter. Changed pretty easily so I doubt it was the original one or super-old. Test drove and no change although the warning code 44 is no longer displaying...but I also didn't drive for more than 15min or so.
- 6/6: Found it was a injector fuse that was blown. I likely have a short someplace that I need to track down. But when using a new fuse, it works perfectly until the fuse blows again.
[This message has been edited by danahart (edited 06-06-2024).]
Sounds like your wheels are moving fine, so I wouldn't worry about that. The car probably sat for a bit in-between the sale of the car. And however long. The gas probably gummed up and is now reeking havoc through the system.
Easy stuff here. Change the air filter anyway. Their cheap. Dump a bottle of Liquid Molly gas treatment in on the next fill up. Run that through a fuel cycle. Then change the fuel filter. Fill it back up.
That's where you should start. Cheap easy solutions first.
Anyway, the car can get up to speed but it doesn't have the acceleration it used to. I almost have the accelerator touching the floor in first gear before I get moving enough to go to 2nd. Once moving it can maintain speed but again, just lacks power. I'll be in 4th on a slight hill going around 50 and have to have the pedal to the floor to maintain that speed in that gear. It is also struggling to get up my steep driveway in 1st a bit.
Does it have a cat? If so, the innards have potentially let go and are now plugging the exit of the cat. If you can safely get under the car and bash the bottom of the cat with the palm of your hand, does it rattle?
My experience with a plugged cat documented Here. "One reason I’m suspicious is that I don’t feel the engine has a whole lot of mid-range to top end power."
No. I should have stated that originally - no CAT.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Does it have a cat? If so, the innards have potentially let go and are now plugging the exit of the cat. If you can safely get under the car and bash the bottom of the cat with the palm of your hand, does it rattle?
My experience with a plugged cat documented Here. "One reason I’m suspicious is that I don’t feel the engine has a whole lot of mid-range to top end power."
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do that and see if I see any results.
quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:
Sounds like your wheels are moving fine, so I wouldn't worry about that. The car probably sat for a bit in-between the sale of the car. And however long. The gas probably gummed up and is now reeking havoc through the system.
Easy stuff here. Change the air filter anyway. Their cheap. Dump a bottle of Liquid Molly gas treatment in on the next fill up. Run that through a fuel cycle. Then change the fuel filter. Fill it back up.
That's where you should start. Cheap easy solutions first.
Does it have a cat? If so, the innards have potentially let go and are now plugging the exit of the cat. If you can safely get under the car and bash the bottom of the cat with the palm of your hand, does it rattle?
My experience with a plugged cat documented Here. "One reason I’m suspicious is that I don’t feel the engine has a whole lot of mid-range to top end power."
Good one.
EDIT
If you had a CAT. Lol.
[This message has been edited by Jason88Notchie (edited 05-22-2024).]
No. I should have stated that originally - no CAT.
There could possibly still be an issue with the innards of a past cat plugging the muffler's exit. I'm grasping here, but if the engine runs smooth and just doesn't seem to have any power, it's sometimes a blockage of the exhaust.
Have you checked your ignition timing... with the ALDL jumper in place? It wouldn't be the first time a distributor has loosened enough to rotate and retard the ignition timing.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-22-2024).]
There could possibly still be an issue with the innards of a past cat plugging the muffler's exit. I'm grasping here, but if the engine runs smooth and just doesn't seem to have any power, it's sometimes a blockage of the exhaust.
Have you checked your ignition timing... with the ALDL jumper in place? It wouldn't be the first time a distributor has loosened enough to rotate and retard the ignition timing.
Could be issue with the exhaust but how do you know if he has a muffler? Lol...kidding.
I'm "leaning" more toward the fuel side. Car can run ok with clogged filter. But once fuel velocity reaches the max output of the filter the engine will starve. Mid to high range RPM.
Also I wouldn't mess with the timing yet..that would be down the road if the other solutions don't work.
Jason, I've got to totally disagree with you there. IMO, ignition timing is one of the most, if not the most basic thing to check when an engine (with a distributor) isn't running properly. So many new (younger) Fiero owners have never even seen a timing light, let alone used one. Odds are, the OP has never checked the ignition timing since he acquired the car. Who's to say the previous owner ever timed the ignition properly? I don't trust anyone. It needs to be done.
One thing I want to mention- My Fiero went out-of-tune a decade ago- burned up the Cat....so I had to replace it...when the guy removed the old cat-housing, he stated "It is empty- no honeycomb at all!"
Flash forward 9 years...suddenly the car started sounding kind of funny...after messing with a few things, I removed the exhaust system and shook it...rattle-rattle! I spent weeks shaking a large amount of debris out of it- actually did it twice...when I "finished" the first time, reinstalled it and ran and sounded better- but a few months later it started sounding funny again- removed it and rattle-rattle...shook it some more and actually banged a spot in the pipe where there is a constriction- more pieces came out.
Maybe your (Removed) cat disintegrated and pieces are lodged in the muffler and finally decided to get mean and clog your exhaust.
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 05-23-2024).]
You called it, Patrick, I don't know crap about timing. The previous owner was a pretty experienced mechanic and owner of multiple Fieros. Also I'll note that it had power when I first purchased it and for the first week...only after maybe 100 miles of driving did I start to notice the drop in power. If you think I should check the timing, I can probably figure it out. Luckily this isn't my daily driver so I have all the time in the world.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Jason, I've got to totally disagree with you there. IMO, ignition timing is one of the most, if not the most basic thing to check when an engine (with a distributor) isn't running properly. So many new (younger) Fiero owners have never even seen a timing light, let alone used one. Odds are, the OP has never checked the ignition timing since he acquired the car. Who's to say the previous owner ever timed the ignition properly? I don't trust anyone. It needs to be done.
So far I just added the LinquiMolly fuel additive with a new tank of gas. Today I ran out for a short errand and the Service Engine Soon light came on. I checked and it is throwing code 44: Lean exhaust indicated (Left side on dual oxygen modules). I looked through the forum and it seemed there were a bunch of possible causes for this but maybe someone has a suggestion on this code combined with my loss of pep.
quote
Originally posted by danahart:
Hi all. Pretty new poster but have read a bunch on this forum. I just got a 1988 Formula a few weeks ago so am new to the Fiero world. Also pretty inexperienced mechanic skills but hoping to improve that now that I have a 30yr old car. Looking for advise on an issue I'm having.
Anyway, the car is a v6 manual and worked perfectly at time of purchase. I didn't drive it too much due to the very bad tires but enough to get an idea of how it felt. I finally got new wheels on it and went ahead and put new rotors on as well since the old ones were pretty rusty and the car came with a brand new extra set. I didn't change the brake pads as they looked fine. All good and I started driving it fairly regularly on short trips.
A few days later I noticed the car doesn't have as much power as I remembered. I don't think this happened at the same time as the brake/wheel work...I'm fairly sure it ran as normal for a few days before I noticed the lack of power. But it is somewhat subtle and if I'm not trying to quickly accelerate it can be easy to miss. I only mention the wheel/brake work as it is the only thing I've done to the car. Just to test to make sure there wasn't rubbing or locked up, while off I disengaged the ebrake and pushed the car back and forth on a flat driveway...it pushed very easily. I figured that if anything was rubbing I'd have heard or felt the resistance. Educate me if that is not a valid assumption.
Anyway, the car can get up to speed but it doesn't have the acceleration it used to. I almost have the accelerator touching the floor in first gear before I get moving enough to go to 2nd. Once moving it can maintain speed but again, just lacks power. I'll be in 4th on a slight hill going around 50 and have to have the pedal to the floor to maintain that speed in that gear. It is also struggling to get up my steep driveway in 1st a bit.
I haven't had a lot of time to investigate, the only thing I've done so far is to check the air filter to make sure there wasn't a blockage keeping air from getting in. All seemed ok there. I plan to pull the wheels and doublecheck the brakes again just to make sure I didn't mess something up...but again I figure that if I can freely spin the wheel then that should eliminate that possibility, right?
Any ideas on what the likely culprit is or the easiest things I could start to check first?
Makes sense. What ECM reader are you guys using for the Fiero? I see there is one on the Fierostore for about $100. Is that the only option to get the scan info?
quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:
Scan is where you take telemetry from the ECM.
I will edit the above post that this is from the 88 FSM. Other years may differ.
Makes sense. What ECM reader are you guys using for the Fiero? I see there is one on the Fierostore for about $100. Is that the only option to get the scan info?
The engine light will flash your codes among other things, but yeah. If you want to know what the engine is doing you have to have a scanner. Haven't seen the Fiero Store one for 100 bucks. But it must be able to scan OBD 1. I'm not a scanner expert. Others would be better than me in recommending a hand held. Here is what I'm using. I use this on my 2007 Buick too.
There is software you can run on your laptop. It's called WinALDL. Many people on this forum use this. I never have used it but look like a good option.
[This message has been edited by Jason88Notchie (edited 05-24-2024).]
So far I just added the LinquiMolly fuel additive with a new tank of gas. Today I ran out for a short errand and the Service Engine Soon light came on. I checked and it is throwing code 44: Lean exhaust indicated (Left side on dual oxygen modules). I looked through the forum and it seemed there were a bunch of possible causes for this but maybe someone has a suggestion on this code combined with my loss of pep.
similar symptoms to mine minus the code. I should see if my muffler is clogged since it sounds like a tractor at idle and also has 0 high end power and doesn't make anything til 3k to 3500 rpm anyways more places for me to check and I wish you the best of luck
New information: I also added this to the bottom of the top post.
Tested the fuel pressure. Primed it reads 40psi. When running it started at 35psi but went to 40 when driving. When stopped and turned off, pressure still read 36psi a half hour later. 12 hrs later it read 23psi. That all seems normal based on my internet reading so I assume I can rule out the fuel pump? I also changed the fuel filter. Changed pretty easily so I doubt it was the original one or super-old. Test drove and no change although the warning code 44 is no longer displaying...but I also didn't drive for more than 15min or so.
Not sure what to check next...
quote
Originally posted by danahart:
Hi all. Pretty new poster but have read a bunch on this forum. I just got a 1988 Formula a few weeks ago so am new to the Fiero world. Also pretty inexperienced mechanic skills but hoping to improve that now that I have a 30yr old car. Looking for advise on an issue I'm having.
Anyway, the car is a v6 manual and worked perfectly at time of purchase. I didn't drive it too much due to the very bad tires but enough to get an idea of how it felt. I finally got new wheels on it and went ahead and put new rotors on as well since the old ones were pretty rusty and the car came with a brand new extra set. I didn't change the brake pads as they looked fine. All good and I started driving it fairly regularly on short trips.
A few days later I noticed the car doesn't have as much power as I remembered. I don't think this happened at the same time as the brake/wheel work...I'm fairly sure it ran as normal for a few days before I noticed the lack of power. But it is somewhat subtle and if I'm not trying to quickly accelerate it can be easy to miss. I only mention the wheel/brake work as it is the only thing I've done to the car. Just to test to make sure there wasn't rubbing or locked up, while off I disengaged the ebrake and pushed the car back and forth on a flat driveway...it pushed very easily. I figured that if anything was rubbing I'd have heard or felt the resistance. Educate me if that is not a valid assumption.
Anyway, the car can get up to speed but it doesn't have the acceleration it used to. I almost have the accelerator touching the floor in first gear before I get moving enough to go to 2nd. Once moving it can maintain speed but again, just lacks power. I'll be in 4th on a slight hill going around 50 and have to have the pedal to the floor to maintain that speed in that gear. It is also struggling to get up my steep driveway in 1st a bit.
I haven't had a lot of time to investigate, the only thing I've done so far is to check the air filter to make sure there wasn't a blockage keeping air from getting in. All seemed ok there. I plan to pull the wheels and doublecheck the brakes again just to make sure I didn't mess something up...but again I figure that if I can freely spin the wheel then that should eliminate that possibility, right?
Any ideas on what the likely culprit is or the easiest things I could start to check first?
EDIT: No cat on the car.
UPDATE: - 5/24: added the LinquiMolly fuel additive with a new tank of gas. Today I ran out for a short errand and the Service Engine Soon light came on. I checked and it is throwing code 44: Lean exhaust indicated (Left side on dual oxygen modules). I looked through the forum and it seemed there were a bunch of possible causes for this but maybe someone has a suggestion on this code combined with my loss of pep.
-Changed the air filter at some point I forget when.
- 6/1: Tested the fuel pressure. Primed it reads 40psi. When running it started at 35psi but went to 40 when driving. When stopped and turned off, pressure still read 36psi a half hour later. 12 hrs later it read 23psi. That all seems normal based on my internet reading so I assume I can rule out the fuel pump? I also changed the fuel filter. Changed pretty easily so I doubt it was the original one or super-old. Test drove and no change although the warning code 44 is no longer displaying...but I also didn't drive for more than 15min or so.
Reread the thread. There are other items to check off the list. I would check your exhaust back pressure first. You'll need the backpressure gauge and a timing light to check your ignition timing. Did the previous owner give you a list of things done recently before you purchased the car? That is especially good info to know.
I've ordered the OBDC reader which should come here soon. I'll also do the exhaust test and see
quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:
Reread the thread. There are other items to check off the list. I would check your exhaust back pressure first. You'll need the backpressure gauge and a timing light to check your ignition timing. Did the previous owner give you a list of things done recently before you purchased the car? That is especially good info to know.
I've only filled up twice. The first I don't recall but just used regular 87. The most recent time I filled up, I used premium. I'm sure I have access to about everything in my area if there is something you think would make a difference.
quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:
Oh, quick thought. Where did you fill up the last two times? What are the options stations you have near you?
I use 2 different fuels. Shell and Speedway (Speedway owned by Marathon, very large in my region). Theogre likes Chevron which is a good choice. I don't have very many of those locally.
I'm pickier with fuel in the Fiero. My 2007 Buick not so much. Just try to be consistent when you can. I have gotten a bad batch of gas one time from Speedway. I was not happy. It can happen.
Problem identified. I found out today that 3 cylinders were not firing, all on the rear side. Some online search led me to the fact that the fuel injectors have 2 fuses that can get blown. Sure enough I had a blown fuse. Replaced it and everything was perfect and back to normal. Thought I was good but the fuse blew again when I started the car up later. Old forum posts tell me that I likely have a short in the ignition harness someplace. I'm going to start a few forum topic about this if I can't find that short tomorrow and need more help. Thank you all for your willingness to try to help me.
quote
Originally posted by danahart:
Hi all. Pretty new poster but have read a bunch on this forum. I just got a 1988 Formula a few weeks ago so am new to the Fiero world. Also pretty inexperienced mechanic skills but hoping to improve that now that I have a 30yr old car. Looking for advise on an issue I'm having.
Anyway, the car is a v6 manual and worked perfectly at time of purchase. I didn't drive it too much due to the very bad tires but enough to get an idea of how it felt. I finally got new wheels on it and went ahead and put new rotors on as well since the old ones were pretty rusty and the car came with a brand new extra set. I didn't change the brake pads as they looked fine. All good and I started driving it fairly regularly on short trips.
A few days later I noticed the car doesn't have as much power as I remembered. I don't think this happened at the same time as the brake/wheel work...I'm fairly sure it ran as normal for a few days before I noticed the lack of power. But it is somewhat subtle and if I'm not trying to quickly accelerate it can be easy to miss. I only mention the wheel/brake work as it is the only thing I've done to the car. Just to test to make sure there wasn't rubbing or locked up, while off I disengaged the ebrake and pushed the car back and forth on a flat driveway...it pushed very easily. I figured that if anything was rubbing I'd have heard or felt the resistance. Educate me if that is not a valid assumption.
Anyway, the car can get up to speed but it doesn't have the acceleration it used to. I almost have the accelerator touching the floor in first gear before I get moving enough to go to 2nd. Once moving it can maintain speed but again, just lacks power. I'll be in 4th on a slight hill going around 50 and have to have the pedal to the floor to maintain that speed in that gear. It is also struggling to get up my steep driveway in 1st a bit.
I haven't had a lot of time to investigate, the only thing I've done so far is to check the air filter to make sure there wasn't a blockage keeping air from getting in. All seemed ok there. I plan to pull the wheels and doublecheck the brakes again just to make sure I didn't mess something up...but again I figure that if I can freely spin the wheel then that should eliminate that possibility, right?
Any ideas on what the likely culprit is or the easiest things I could start to check first?
EDIT: No cat on the car.
UPDATE: - 5/24: added the LinquiMolly fuel additive with a new tank of gas. Today I ran out for a short errand and the Service Engine Soon light came on. I checked and it is throwing code 44: Lean exhaust indicated (Left side on dual oxygen modules). I looked through the forum and it seemed there were a bunch of possible causes for this but maybe someone has a suggestion on this code combined with my loss of pep.
-Changed the air filter at some point I forget when.
- 6/1: Tested the fuel pressure. Primed it reads 40psi. When running it started at 35psi but went to 40 when driving. When stopped and turned off, pressure still read 36psi a half hour later. 12 hrs later it read 23psi. That all seems normal based on my internet reading so I assume I can rule out the fuel pump? I also changed the fuel filter. Changed pretty easily so I doubt it was the original one or super-old. Test drove and no change although the warning code 44 is no longer displaying...but I also didn't drive for more than 15min or so.
Old forum posts tell me that I likely have a short in the ignition harness someplace.
One of the INJ fuses is on the same circuit as the EGR solenoid.
quote
Originally posted by danahart:
Today I ran out for a short errand and the Service Engine Soon light came on. I checked and it is throwing code 44: Lean exhaust indicated (Left side on dual oxygen modules). I looked through the forum and it seemed there were a bunch of possible causes for this but maybe someone has a suggestion on this code combined with my loss of pep.
quote
Code 44
Oxygen Sensor - Lean Exhaust The ECM will set code 44 when the ECM detects a low voltage from the oxygen sensor and the system is operating in Closed Loop (conditions must exist for longer than 20 seconds).
Check the wires of the oxygen sensor, making sure they are not in contact with the exhaust manifold.
Check the oxygen sensor and replace if necessary.
Check the MAP sensor. If the ECM detects a higher than normal vacuum then this will cause the system to go lean. Disconnect the MAP sensor. If the lean condition goes away, then a problem exists with the MAP sensor.
Check for lean injectors.
Check for fuel contamination (specifically for contamination with water).
Check fuel pressure. If pressure is too low, the system will be lean.
Check for exhaust leaks. An exhaust leak can cause air to be pulled into the exhaust and past the sensor.
If you have spark knock, check the EGR system.
I suspect your EGR solenoid possibly isn't functioning (maybe shorted internally or otherwise).
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-06-2024).]
Problem identified. I found out today that 3 cylinders were not firing, all on the rear side. Some online search led me to the fact that the fuel injectors have 2 fuses that can get blown. Sure enough I had a blown fuse. Replaced it and everything was perfect and back to normal. Thought I was good but the fuse blew again when I started the car up later. Old forum posts tell me that I likely have a short in the ignition harness someplace. I'm going to start a few forum topic about this if I can't find that short tomorrow and need more help. Thank you all for your willingness to try to help me.
Ok thanks for that correction. From a quick search it seems that the EGR solonoid isn't strictly necessary. Is it ok to remove or disable it temporarily to see if that solves the problem? I realize that might trigger a code but as long as the engine runs ok without the EGR solonoid for a few days I can at least know that was the issue.
From a quick search it seems that the EGR solonoid isn't strictly necessary. Is it ok to remove or disable it temporarily to see if that solves the problem?
For a short time, it should be okay. Make sure to listen though for any indications of engine ping due to the EGR system not being functional. Also keep in mind that if there's a short in the EGR solenoid harness (rather than the solenoid itself), that the INJ fuse could still blow again.
It needs to be done.
