This is with two per side. I’m asking hypothetically if I don’t put 3 on what other options are there. When I get out of class tomorrow I’m gonna throw 3 washers on each side and see where that gets me. I’ll keep you updated! oh btw what are your thoughts on bench bleeding the master I see some people say it’s absolutely essential and some people skip it entirely.
IMHO - Using three brake crush washers is SO "Mickey Mouse"
You instigate a silly little scuffle, and then you neg me. Class act.
[EDIT] And then you edit your postto add the quote from cartercarbaficionado... so as to try and make it look like your comment had nothing to do with my post, which was the first post in this thread to mention using more than two crush washers on the banjo bolt. Cute.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-10-2024).]
This is with two per side. I’m asking hypothetically if I don’t put 3 on what other options are there. When I get out of class tomorrow I’m gonna throw 3 washers on each side and see where that gets me.
The worst that can happen is that it still leaks. Just make absolutely sure that the bolt is going in straight.
quote
Originally posted by Doggo:
what are your thoughts on bench bleeding the master I see some people say it’s absolutely essential and some people skip it entirely.
I don't know if a brake master cylinder that's allowed to run dry is as "empty" as a new master cylinder or not. Probably wouldn't hurt to "bench bleed" the master cylinder again while it's still mounted in the car... but see if you can get your slave cylinders leak-free first. Otherwise you may need to go through the whole "bench bleed" procedure all over again.
Well, if it wasn’t toast before, it is now. I was trying to put three washers on it, tightening it righty tighty until it suddenly became righty loosey. Took out the bolt and sure enough it was covered in caliper shavings. All part of the learning process, I guess. Thanks for trying to help me guys I really do appreciate it. I don’t know what I’ll do now but probably end up just buying another one. This time from rock auto so when I break it it’ll only be a $50 mistake. Can I use my driver side fiero store caliper with a rock auto one or do I get two new rock auto ones?
[This message has been edited by Doggo (edited 08-21-2024).]
Well, if it wasn’t toast before, it is now. I was trying to put three washers on it, tightening it righty tighty until it suddenly became righty loosey. Took out the bolt and sure enough it was covered in caliper shavings. Thanks for trying to help me guys I really do appreciate it. I don’t know what I’ll do now but probably end up just buying another one. This time from rock auto so when I break it it’ll only be a $50 mistake. Can I use my driver side fiero store caliper with a rock auto one or do I get two new rock auto ones?
it's the same caliper as stock so it should be fine. (unless fiero store is selling a grand am caliper?) I dont see a passenger caliper listed so maybe ask fiero store to do a return or swap? or I can pull you one and rebuild it from my stash or from a local yard around here (I do have access to a whole clubs parts atm)
[This message has been edited by cartercarbaficionado (edited 08-21-2024).]
When I'm tightening a bolt into aluminum, I'm always very careful not to overdo it. I'm not saying you necessarily overtightened the bolt, but you just want to make sure that you don't have this same issue with the next caliper.
quote
Originally posted by Doggo:
My roommate finds it imperative that I unleash onto you a barrage of photos of the caliper threads that he took. Do you guys need to see more angles of the threads?
We never did see any of those images. I'm wondering if the threads in this re-built caliper were already half-way stripped before you even started this odyssey.
[EDIT 1] Did some quick research and found this post by Dennis from five years ago. It's quite apropos!
Rebuilt calipers won't take 33 ft lbs on the banjo bolts to the calipers. Those caliper housings have been cleaned with strong solvents, sand blasted and painted. Some calipers have been rebuilt many times. I tighten to 20 ft lbs and if I get leakage just use a bit more force until it stops. Once the copper washers are crushed the seal should be there. If the threads strip out then the piston must be removed, the bolt hole drilled and a Helicoil inserted.
[EDIT 2] I did some further research, and the banjo bolt torque into aluminum calipers on a Subaru is 13 ft lbs. That to me makes a whole lot more sense than 33 ft lbs!
I've never had this problem of stripping the calipers, as I've never used a torque wrench on the banjo bolts (or bleeders). I've always felt that the Fiero factory torque specs were awfully high for aluminum calipers.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-22-2024).]
When I'm tightening a bolt into aluminum, I'm always very careful not to overdo it. I'm not saying you necessarily overtightened the bolt, but you just want to make sure that you don't have this same issue with the next caliper.
It's funny, It never dawned on me that the now 40 year old calipers that have been cleaned used and painted over and over again would probably not be quite as tough as a brand new one off the line in 1985. This time, the bolt was going in smoothly, until probably like 15 ft lbs. out of the 20 I was trying to put into it with my torque wrench. I just stopped feeling resistance. I'm 96.5% sure that it wasn't cross threaded either. It was probably still upset at me about the time I tightened it to 34 ft lbs. Oh well.
Oh, here's those other pictures, some of which look weird because he uses a mirror:
[This message has been edited by Doggo (edited 08-22-2024).]
it's the same caliper as stock so it should be fine. (unless fiero store is selling a grand am caliper?) I dont see a passenger caliper listed so maybe ask fiero store to do a return or swap? or I can pull you one and rebuild it from my stash or from a local yard around here (I do have access to a whole clubs parts atm)
I would try to get in touch with the fiero store but they added a tag to the caliper that basically says hey don’t over tighten or cross thread the bolt because you won’t get your money back
If you would be willing to rebuild and sell to me that would make a guys day.
It's funny, It never dawned on me that the now 40 year old calipers that have been cleaned used and painted over and over again would probably not be quite as tough as a brand new one off the line in 1985.
If you were to compare those crusty looking threads to the threads in an actual brand new aluminum caliper, I suspect you'd notice a helluva difference. IMO, there's absolutely no way that those worn and pitted threads would be able to withstand anywhere near the factory torque specs.
I think you should complain to The Fiero Store and have them either reimburse you or send you a replacement. Seriously.
And tell your roommate that he took some excellent shots of the threads.
quote
Originally posted by Doggo:
I would try to get in touch with the fiero store but they added a tag to the caliper that basically says hey don’t over tighten or cross thread the bolt because you won’t get your money back.
Don't let them get away with that BS. A mean look would've stripped those threads. For what The Fiero Store charges for re-built brake calipers, those threads should've been heli-coiled in the first place!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-22-2024).]
I would try to get in touch with the fiero store but they added a tag to the caliper that basically says hey don’t over tighten or cross thread the bolt because you won’t get your money back
If you would be willing to rebuild and sell to me that would make a guys day.
pm me and I'll get you all set up. mine won't be as nice looking as that fierostore one but it'll work. honestly I would like that caliper because even though it's messed up it probably has a good piston which I could use in the one i give you since I don't have any perfect pistons also if you mail the caliper I could throw the new one in the same box and send it return for a bit cheaper. do try with the fierostore first but if they jerk you around I got your back.
pm me and I'll get you all set up. mine won't be as nice looking as that fierostore one but it'll work. honestly I would like that caliper because even though it's messed up it probably has a good piston which I could use in the one i give you since I don't have any perfect pistons also if you mail the caliper I could throw the new one in the same box and send it return for a bit cheaper. do try with the fierostore first but if they jerk you around I got your back.
Going to contact them tomorrow most likely, I'll keep you guys posted. You'll probably hear from me within the next few days lol.
UPDTAE: The fiero store has agreed to warranty my caliper and send me a new one! They were super understanding, actually. See you all in the parking brake thread
UPDTAE: The fiero store has agreed to warranty my caliper and send me a new one! They were super understanding, actually. See you all in the parking brake thread
It is common to strip the threads for the banjo connection to strip out. When calipers are constantly rebuilt they are cleaned with a liquid that removes the outer corroded surfaces thereby weakening the threads. Then you tighten the bolt and the weakened threads strip out The solution is to use a Helicoil repair kit. You remove the piston drill out the hole, thread it for a thread insert, put it in and your are good to go. The new Helicoil threads are stronger that what was originally there. Lastly you clean the piston bore and put the piston and seals back.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
oh btw what are your thoughts on bench bleeding the master I see some people say it’s absolutely essential and some people skip it entirely.
