2.5 iron duke. When I shift into reverse from park the backup lights come on only momentarily and shut off when the shifter is in reverse. I've installed a new switch on the trans, toyed with the adjustment, but the issue still persists. Not sure how long this has been going on, but is there a second switch on the shifter under the console that may need to be adjusted/replaced or is something else amiss? Hoping I don't need trans work, as I just had a rebuild about 4k miles ago.
Wiring has been checked and is working properly .. just seems like something is out of adjustment.
Thanks in advance.
------------------ Still crazy after all these years...
[This message has been edited by flexxmi (edited 08-24-2024).]
2.5 iron duke. When I shift into reverse from park the backup lights come on only momentarily and shut off when the shifter is in reverse. I've installed a new switch on the trans, toyed with the adjustment, but the issue still persists. Not sure how long this has been going on, but is there a second switch on the shifter under the console that may need to be adjusted/replaced or is something else amiss? Hoping I don't need trans work, as I just had a rebuild about 4k miles ago.
Wiring has been checked and is working properly .. just seems like something is out of adjustment.
Thanks in advance.
if it's truly an automatic please replace the shift indicator on the transmission. i know youve done it already butthey get very funky over time and build up conducive dust inside plus new doesn't mean good anymore unfortunately. another check is to unplug it entirely and shift through the gears and see if it behaves different (also called a safety switch? it's the big black box on the shift shaft)
[This message has been edited by cartercarbaficionado (edited 08-24-2024).]
I can get the backup lights to light up for a hot second as I'm shifting from Park to Reverse, and the lights come on as soon as I start pulling the shifter down from park to slip it into reverse. The transmission isn't even engaged into reverse at the point when the lights will come on.
Is that just an adjustment with the plunger screw you mentioned? I don't want to mess it up, so I'd like to feel a bit more confident about toying with it before I attempt to correct it.
if it's truly an automatic please replace the shift indicator on the transmission. i know youve done it already butthey get very funky over time and build up conducive dust inside plus new doesn't mean good anymore unfortunately. another check is to unplug it entirely and shift through the gears and see if it behaves different (also called a safety switch? it's the big black box on the shift shaft)
The switch on the exterior of the transmission was just replaced yesterday, and yes, it's an automatic trans.
The lights will illuminate briefly as I am shifting from park to reverse and before the transmission engages into reverse.
It just seems like something needs to be adjusted.
[This message has been edited by flexxmi (edited 08-24-2024).]
I can get the backup lights to light up for a hot second as I'm shifting from Park to Reverse, and the lights come on as soon as I start pulling the shifter down from park to slip it into reverse. The transmission isn't even engaged into reverse at the point when the lights will come on.
Is that just an adjustment with the plunger screw you mentioned? I don't want to mess it up, so I'd like to feel a bit more confident about toying with it before I attempt to correct it.
Thanks Joe!
OK, I didn't catch that the thread title had that it was an automatic. My bad, sorry!
The revers light switch on an automatic is on the transmission, and incorporated into the Neutral Safety Switch. The NSS is located on the transmission, and surrounds the shaft that the shift arm in mounted to. It is held in position by two bolts. To adjust the NSS, simply loosen the bolts a bit so that the NSS can be rotated around the shaft. With the key ON, and the transmission in reverse (one detent back from PARK), rotate the NSS slightly until the backup lights come ON. Tighten the bolts. When properly adjusted, the car will start in PARK and NEUTRAL, and the backup lights will come on in REVERSE.
Don't pay too much attention to the PNRD21 markings on the shifter surround. They aren't all that accurate for the most part.
Sorry for the confusion in my first response, as I mentioned above, I didn't read that it was an 84 automatic.
And keep us posted as to your success or failure, we are all glad to help out!
The switch on the exterior of the transmission was just replaced yesterday, and yes, it's an automatic trans.
The lights will illuminate briefly as I am shifting from park to reverse and before the transmission engages into reverse.
It just seems like something needs to be adjusted.
the shift shaft may be different than its intended use. ita happened to me on a few 4t60 and 4l60e vehicles at this point. which keyway style is this switch?
After loosening the two nuts indicated by the arrows I am able to engage the backup lights by moving the lever, however, when the lights are on the switch is not in a 'natural' position - meaning that when I move the lever it clicks and drops into what must be a slotted mechanism within the switch and when the backup lights are engaged it is not in one of the slots but in between the slots.
The other issue is, when I thought I had it figured out, the bolt on the cable was extended to the very outer area of the adjustment slot and I had a difficult time getting it through the slot and when I did it popped back to the slot inside of the switch and the lights went out.
So I figured out that I could get the lights to engage in a natural position inside of the switch by loosening the bolts where it attaches to the trans housing, but it seems like the cable is too long, as the slot for the threaded bolt at the end of the cable does not align with the slot it is supposed to go inside. When I go to put the threaded end of the cable in the slot the bolt on the cable extends past the slot and if I try to make it fit, the lever shifts and the lights go out.
So I figured out that I could get the lights to engage in a natural position inside of the switch by loosening the bolts where it attaches to the trans housing, but it seems like the cable is too long, as the slot for the threaded bolt at the end of the cable does not align with the slot it is supposed to go inside. When I go to put the threaded end of the cable in the slot the bolt on the cable extends past the slot and if I try to make it fit, the lever shifts and the lights go out.
that shift lever looks weird. lemme go snap a picture of my 84s one and we will see how that looks. as for the cable length it could be the wrong cable since I actually replaced my 84s cable with a manual cable since I couldn't source a correct replacement at the time so using a getrag cable was my solution. I forget which one I used since I grabbed it out of a stripped car where the whole shift cable and shifter assembly were sitting in the footwell
that shift lever looks weird. lemme go snap a picture of my 84s one and we will see how that looks. as for the cable length it could be the wrong cable since I actually replaced my 84s cable with a manual cable since I couldn't source a correct replacement at the time so using a getrag cable was my solution. I forget which one I used since I grabbed it out of a stripped car where the whole shift cable and shifter assembly were sitting in the footwell
The cable is OG to my vehicle and has not been replaced so I'm not sure why I'm having issues.
It sounds like you were adjusting the cable right. Not sure why things are "off". Loosen the end of the cable and try again, setting everything in "neutral".
Originally posted by fierosound: It sounds like you were adjusting the cable right. Not sure why things are "off". Loosen the end of the cable and try again, setting everything in "neutral".
Tried this and a whole lot of other things. Wondering at this point if this switch is defective, but the old switch didn't work either so I'm throwing my hands up at this point. I only get lights to come on in between park and reverse no matter what adjustments I make. My mechanic (who also owns a Fiero) is suggesting that perhaps the fingers inside the trans that control the position of the gears are somehow bend, allowing this switch to not function properly. The switch was not purchased at one of the lower end auto parts stores, so I am still looking for a resolution.
[This message has been edited by flexxmi (edited 08-28-2024).]
Well, I've also come to discover that my car will start without being plugged into the neutral safety switch. Not good.
huh. that's weird. is it bypassed under the dash or wherever is the upstream connection for the automatics safety switch? also your friend could be correct but it's more likely the switch is made improperly. I'll snap a pic soon just been too busy to unbury my 84 from its life as a shelf (been too busy to swap another iron duke in)
huh. that's weird. is it bypassed under the dash or wherever is the upstream connection for the automatics safety switch? also your friend could be correct but it's more likely the switch is made improperly. I'll snap a pic soon just been too busy to unbury my 84 from its life as a shelf (been too busy to swap another iron duke in)
I have no idea if the switch has been bypassed. I have never messed with it. Your switch and lever look just like mine except mine look cleaner because I've been working on it. As far as the switch being made improperly, that's entirely possible but I have no way of knowing. Still, this car should not be able to crank in any other gears than park or neutral and it does. I did not try to start it in gear without the switch attached to the harness though.
The START signal to the starter solenoid goes from the ignition switch on top of the steering column directly to the C500 connector (by passenger side hinge box above the engine, YELLOW wire) to the NSS. The NSS (when in P or N) passes the signal to the solenoid via a PURPLE wire.
There is no wire that runs directly to the solenoid from the inside of the car.
Is there a possibility that your car was originally a manual and has been converted to an automatic?
The 'options' tag on the left front wheelhouse is the only easy way to tell.
huh. that's weird. is it bypassed under the dash or wherever is the upstream connection for the automatics safety switch? also your friend could be correct but it's more likely the switch is made improperly. I'll snap a pic soon just been too busy to unbury my 84 from its life as a shelf (been too busy to swap another iron duke in)
Thanks for the photo Carter. I compared it with mine and it appears that the lever is in the same position as yours, assuming that you snapped your photo while the trans was in the park position.
The new NSS that I put in mine seems to have a very small adjustment area for the backup lights to engage and I'm wondering if they are all this way. I've ordered yet another NSS and it should arrive tomorrow. My plan is to not attach it to the trans, but hook it up to the to the harness connector only and cycle it to see if the switch I ordered responds similarly to the last one that I bought that is installed currently.
Also noticed that at the end of the wiring that comes off of that NSS before it bundles in with other wires inside of the plastic protective tubing that there appears to be a run of electrical tape that may need to be investigated, as the tape appears to be relatively new and not from the factory. Someone may have tampered with the wiring before which could explain a lot of things depending on what's been done under that tape.
The START signal to the starter solenoid goes from the ignition switch on top of the steering column directly to the C500 connector (by passenger side hinge box above the engine, YELLOW wire) to the NSS. The NSS (when in P or N) passes the signal to the solenoid via a PURPLE wire.
There is no wire that runs directly to the solenoid from the inside of the car.
Is there a possibility that your car was originally a manual and has been converted to an automatic?
The 'options' tag on the left front wheelhouse is the only easy way to tell.
So I found an area upstream from the NSS connector in the wiring that looked suspicious and was wrapped with electrical tape so I unwrapped the tape. Two of the wires appear to be spliced with no jumper - the tan and the purple. The pink-ish wire at the top of the photo appears to have a RED jumper to the YELLOW wire. Is this how it's supposed to be? I had a schematic at one point but can't find it now.
So I found an area upstream from the NSS connector in the wiring that looked suspicious and was wrapped with electrical tape so I unwrapped the tape. Two of the wires appear to be spliced with no jumper - the tan and the purple. The pink-ish wire at the top of the photo appears to have a RED jumper to the YELLOW wire. Is this how it's supposed to be? I had a schematic at one point but can't find it now.
yeah that ain't right. lemme look at my 84s harness
yeah that ain't right. lemme look at my 84s harness
Thanks Carter. I think even more importantly I need to find out what the reason would be why someone would do this and what it is affecting or bypassing.
So I found an area upstream from the NSS connector in the wiring that looked suspicious and was wrapped with electrical tape so I unwrapped the tape. Two of the wires appear to be spliced with no jumper - the tan and the purple. The pink-ish wire at the top of the photo appears to have a RED jumper to the YELLOW wire. Is this how it's supposed to be? I had a schematic at one point but can't find it now.
The two heavy gage wires are the START signal to the starter solenoid that originally went to the NSS.
The light blue and light green wires are your backup light circuit that was also originally routed to the NSS
You have located your problem, it should be an easy fix! ( Although you may need to be a contortionist to work on it! )
You have a new NSS switch, so wire it in and put it back the way it should be!
I ordered yet another NSS switch, thinking the first new one might be defective since my reverse lights aren't coming on when the car is in reverse. But I'm wondering if they jury rigged this the way they did because they couldn't get the car started four years ago with the rebuilt trans because something is wrong with it, so they bypassed the NSS to get me out of the shop.
I really don't want to pull that jumper and then have to put it back the way it was later because my car won't start at all, but it's looking like I don't have any other options. Should I disconnect the battery before I dive into this?
funny story. same bypass on my 84 just done neater. seems to have been a fairly common thing (checked a club members 84 as well) so maybe the safety switch in the nss failed often
funny story. same bypass on my 84 just done neater. seems to have been a fairly common thing (checked a club members 84 as well) so maybe the safety switch in the nss failed often
Thanks for chiming in with that Carter. The plot thickens. From what I gather, your '84 is inoperable but now I'm wondering if your starter will engage in any gear like mine. Do you have back up lights when it's in reverse? Can of worms!
I ordered yet another NSS switch, thinking the first new one might be defective since my reverse lights aren't coming on when the car is in reverse. But I'm wondering if they jury rigged this the way they did because they couldn't get the car started four years ago with the rebuilt trans because something is wrong with it, so they bypassed the NSS to get me out of the shop.
I really don't want to pull that jumper and then have to put it back the way it was later because my car won't start at all, but it's looking like I don't have any other options. Should I disconnect the battery before I dive into this?
Thanks for chiming in with that Carter. The plot thickens. From what I gather, your '84 is inoperable but now I'm wondering if your starter will engage in any gear like mine. Do you have back up lights when it's in reverse? Can of worms!
only because it's on its 3rd engine surprisingly everything works as intended which is weird. looks like they specifically only bypassed the safety switch portion of mine but that isn't causing a crank in every gear situation....then again my harness is a nightmare so who even knows Anymore. maybe it's just a coincidence it doesn't crank in drive
only because it's on its 3rd engine surprisingly everything works as intended which is weird. looks like they specifically only bypassed the safety switch portion of mine but that isn't causing a crank in every gear situation....then again my harness is a nightmare so who even knows Anymore. maybe it's just a coincidence it doesn't crank in drive
The new NSS arrived and I went and picked it up. Same results as with the last new one I bought. Tinkered around with both and decided I would mark the first new NSS where the backup lights come on (see photos). I left the transmission in reverse and put the switch back on the post and was still not able to get it to line up. Frustrated, I decided to open the NSS thinking that perhaps it had a gear driven mechanism inside that maybe I could adjust. No dice. Single piece of plastic with contacts. I took photos of the inside as well in case anybody was wondering what it looks like inside. (see photos)
I taped the wiring back up and did not remove the jumper - I left it as it was.
Looks like she's headed to a transmission shop to get these issues resolved. There's got to be something not right inside of the trans case that is causing this NSS to not line up properly.
Did you know that the auto trans gear selector mechanism in the console is also adjustable?
It can be slid forward and backwards.
Do you have an adjustable shift cable?
Have you played with the adjustment at the transmission?
I can guarantee that there is nothing inside the transmission that is preventing the reverse lights from working properly.
Here is the issue in a nutshell: With the transmission set in reverse (mounting bolts, cable and lever removed) when I put the NSS on the transmission and spin it in as far as possible in either direction the backup lights do not come on. It is so far off that with the transmission set in park (mounting bolts, cable and lever removed) when I put the NSS on the transmission I can spin the NSS to one side and the backup lights illuminate. There is not enough directional play to engage the lights when the transmission is set to reverse, and even if there were the mounting holes for the NSS would not line up with the bolt holes.
When I had an 84 I had chronic trouble with this system also. Not sure about the reverse lights but I definitely had trouble with being able to crank the starter. I don't know if there's actually any difference in the 84s though.
Here is the issue in a nutshell: With the transmission set in reverse (mounting bolts, cable and lever removed) when I put the NSS on the transmission and spin it in as far as possible in either direction the backup lights do not come on. It is so far off that with the transmission set in park (mounting bolts, cable and lever removed) when I put the NSS on the transmission I can spin the NSS to one side and the backup lights illuminate. There is not enough directional play to engage the lights when the transmission is set to reverse, and even if there were the mounting holes for the NSS would not line up with the bolt holes.
dumb question. does having it upside down somehow allow it to turn the lights on with the correct throw?
When I had an 84 I had chronic trouble with this system also. Not sure about the reverse lights but I definitely had trouble with being able to crank the starter. I don't know if there's actually any difference in the 84s though.
Thanks armos. The link you provided may explain why my harness was cut and spliced, as it looks like the original AC Delco NSS had a minimum of two connectors as opposed to a single connector like the one on mine. Problem is, the single connector on my vehicle will not fit the AC Delco NSS part #D2202A so I would have to find the connectors and swap them before I could even know if that would resolve my issue.
Now I'm wondering what trans I have on my car and if there was a different switch other than the OG part intended for it.
Here is the image for the original AC Delco NSS p/n D2202A. It obviously takes at least two connectors and possibly a third on that post on the right - but I don't have the part in hand and the picture does not show the end shot where the connectors go in.
[This message has been edited by flexxmi (edited 09-16-2024).]
Thanks armos. The link you provided may explain why my harness was cut and spliced, as it looks like the original AC Delco NSS had a minimum of two connectors as opposed to a single connector like the one on mine. Problem is, the single connector on my vehicle will not fit the AC Delco NSS part #D2202A so I would have to find the connectors and swap them before I could even know if that would resolve my issue.
Now I'm wondering what trans I have on my car and if there was a different switch other than the OG part intended for it.
Here is the image for the original AC Delco NSS p/n D2202A. It obviously takes at least two connectors and possibly a third on that post on the right - but I don't have the part in hand and the picture does not show the end shot where the connectors go in.
that's weird. my 84 came stock with the big single connector... I wonder if it's a first few months of production thing since mine did also used to be a manual speaking of which if you want an 84 4 speed I have one I'm not gonna use
