Hey guys, so my daughter finally got the car back on all four wheels, for the first time in like... I think a year.
Here's a picture... (shoot, I'll have to log in and then upload it):
There are a few questions I have, to make sure we did this right.
1. AXLES - ABS Ring: On the driver's side (left) axle, there is an ABS ring on it. When I torque the thing down to the point that it sucks the axle entirely into the hub, this ring grinds into the steering knuckle. So, I'm thinking, maybe I should have chiseled this ring off? The longer passenger side axle does NOT have this ABS ring on it.
2. AXLES - Axle Nut: How tight should this be? The Chilton's repair manual says 75 ft-lbs of used, or a whopping 200 ft-lbs if new... which sounds totally insane to me. The question I have is... is there supposed to be play between the axle and hub? Like... I can move the shaft back and forth about a 1/2 inch. I just left it like this because it's not hurting anything (car isn't insured or registered yet). Is this supposed to be totally snugged down, meaning that there should be no back and forth end-play (as soon as I fix problem #1)?
3. STEERING KNUCKLE: The driver side steering knuckle went in pretty well. We adjusted the two bolts between the knuckle and the McPhearson strut and on the driver's side it's decent enough that it's mostly vertical. Good enough so that when we're finished, we can take it up the street to get an alignment. The PASSENGER SIDE is crazy though. It's pitched inward at the front... seems to really want to be turned that way. We haven't installed the tie-rods yet (will do that next weekend)... but I'm just curious. Why is the driver's side totally parallel (the one my daughter did), and the one I did (rear passenger wheel) biased towards the front left (pitching in). I want to straighten this out before we even put the tie rods on because I don't think the shock / suspension should inherently have that bias. Is this because of how the springs are installed in the perch? Do I need to adjust the spring under the spring hat or something so it's not twisted?
4. BRAKE DUST SHIELD: All the manuals for the new dust shields show it as having to be installed outside of the wheel hub; however, when I do that, it rubs the brake rotor. Instead, we installed it BEHIND the wheel hub (as in, between the wheel hub and the steering knuckle), and it clears everything fine and looks much better. Is the manual wrong and I'm right? Or what?
5. RIDE HEIGHT: I seem to recall that after I replaced all my shocks back in the day on my Fiero (like in the 90s), the ride height grew by like almost 2"s, haha... seems that's what's happened here as well on my daughter's car. I assume over 1,000 miles or so this will settle back down?
Thanks guys! I appreciate it!!!
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 09-29-2024).]
The instructions I got with my axle said to remove the tone ring if not using abs.
Yes the spindle nut according to the 84 FSM states the final torque should be 200 ft lbs. As far as play goes, no I don't believe there should be any and there is known on any of the GM's I've changed wheel hubs on.
As far as the steering knuckle wanting to pitch a particular direction sounds like something is not fully seated. I do recall mine being a bit stubborn but manageable. Check the tripot into the trans input, it shouldn't be out very far.
Yes the dust shield belongs on the outside of the knuckle/hub not between. Not sure what's wrong if it's rubbing on the rotor maybe bent or wrong orientation?
For ride height can't tell you, mine is at 3.5" of ground clearance.
[This message has been edited by Stingray92 (edited 09-29-2024).]
1. AXLES - ABS Ring: On the driver's side (left) axle, there is an ABS ring on it. When I torque the thing down to the point that it sucks the axle entirely into the hub, this ring grinds into the steering knuckle. So, I'm thinking, maybe I should have chiseled this ring off? The longer passenger side axle does NOT have this ABS ring on it.
2. AXLES - Axle Nut: How tight should this be? The Chilton's repair manual says 75 ft-lbs of used, or a whopping 200 ft-lbs if new... which sounds totally insane to me. The question I have is... is there supposed to be play between the axle and hub? Like... I can move the shaft back and forth about a 1/2 inch. I just left it like this because it's not hurting anything (car isn't insured or registered yet). Is this supposed to be totally snugged down, meaning that there should be no back and forth end-play (as soon as I fix problem #1)?
5. RIDE HEIGHT: I seem to recall that after I replaced all my shocks back in the day on my Fiero (like in the 90s), the ride height grew by like almost 2"s, haha... seems that's what's happened here as well on my daughter's car. I assume over 1,000 miles or so this will settle back down?
1: you can chisel that off without removing it, just focus in one spot and split it and pry it off.
2: definitely do the 200 lb/ft, and describe this play you mention, is it play between the axle end (with the locknut) and the hub, or between the axle shaft and the hub? The axle shaft is able to move a little in and out of the transmission end and the hub end, but you shouldn't be able to just move the hub end in and out of the hub itself, probably will be resolved with torqueing it to spec.
5: that's because the original shocks are not gas charged they simply resist movement and should have no springyness to themselves, replacements are gas charged, which helps keep the performance consistent over a "washboard" surface, a byproduct of that is that they are springy, which is a selling feature for cars with worn, drooping suspensions. They will constantly, slowly settle as the gas inevitably leaks out, and the bushings on the (front) shocks get used to having load, but basically, jounce the suspension (if on a lift, grab something and pull down with as much weight as possible, and release, letting the car return to ride height on its own, if on the ground, press firmly down on each corner, as hard as possible and release, good places are rear shock towers and frunk where the RPO sticker is, and other side) that's also the legal test for worn out shocks in my province, if it rebounds past the starting position (push down, bounce past where started, then bounces down, etc.) then the shocks are blown.
Interestingly, I've found the stock rear shocks will initially do nothing (first "pump" it rebounds like crazy), then firms up and acts like it should, before I replaced them.
- Chisel off the tone ring. When I started torquing down the nut, this hit the steering knuckle, which is why I left slack in it. But I'll remove that and then torque them down.
- For the pitch, I'm wondering if the spring isn't seated properly, but I'll check the gap between the tri-pot and the transmission. When I installed the springs before, I used my hands to compress them... but damn are my hands sore this morning, so I ordered a set of spring compressors, and I'll take a better look at it tomorrow night.
- On the orientation of the dust shield. Is it a problem to have it sandwiched between the hub and knuckle? It fits really well, and doesn't appear to interact or affect anything around it. I remember when I installed these on my 87 Fiero some 25 years ago, and I had to really bend the **** out of them to get them to sit properly. But they're like... friggin' perfect the way they are now, an even 1/2" gap between the rotor and the shield.
I think I'm OK with the ride height. It's my daughter's car anyway, and I don't want her to feel overwhelmed when some of those big Florida pickup trucks ride alongside her.
If you are having only a small amount of interference with the dust shield, you can simply bend it..... 1/4 inch or so of movement should be enough to stop the rubbing.
If you are having only a small amount of interference with the dust shield, you can simply bend it..... 1/4 inch or so of movement should be enough to stop the rubbing.
Thanks for that! I haven't had the chance to try to fix my mistake (where my daughter did it properly), but I'm curious if it's a BAD thing for me to have the dust shield sandwiched between the hub and knuckle?
It seems "perfect" in my opinion, like... absolutely perfect. The spacing, everything... as it really should be. Is there any real reason why I want it on the face of the hub mounting surface, directly under the bolts?
With it installed the way we did it, it doesn't interfere with anything, including the bump stop, and even where the tie-rod end would go.
Just want to understand what the significance is. I wouldn't normally question things like this (why the original engineers did "x"), but it seems /better/ this way... just curious everyone's thoughts! Thanks!!!
what did you do to the wheels to make them shine like that?
Hahah... I was hoping no one was going to ask about that.
I spent $188 per wheel... that's what I did. Total came out to $808.40 with tax and shipping for all four.
There's a guy who's selling them, refinished, just like that. Absolutely friggin' amazing job. I figured, we can't go through all this effort and then just polish the old cruddy wheels. So I bought from this guy.
The nice thing too is that he takes the old wheels in for exchange. He won't melt them down, but will refurbish the four that I send back, and then put them back on eBay again.
I basically return my old four in the same box he sent me the four refinished ones, and pays me $35 per wheel, plus he paid for return shipping as well.
There is an O-ring between the hub and knuckle. This O-ring will not be squeezed as designed if the hub is spaced out.
If the hub is spaced out, then the CV joint moves out, and then the position of the knuckle’s lip seal is not ideal relative to the sealing area on the CV joint. The installation depth of the lip seal in the bore can be adjusted to compensate.
There is an O-ring between the hub and knuckle. This O-ring will not be squeezed as designed if the hub is spaced out.
If the hub is spaced out, then the CV joint moves out, and then the position of the knuckle’s lip seal is not ideal relative to the sealing area on the CV joint. The installation depth of the lip seal in the bore can be adjusted to compensate.
Crap... I'm not aware of any O-Ring, and I didn't remember seeing one when she removed the hub assembly the first time. I'll have to check the service manual to see what you're talking about. We slid the axle into the transmission (first), and it appeared at the time it went in all the way (need to check again... haven't done it yet but will this weekend), and then inserted the other end of the axle directly into the wheel hub (after first installing the hub into the knuckle).
I'm also not aware at all of any steering knuckle lip seal. The only seals in the rear I'm aware of are on the transmission itself where the driveshaft went into it.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Crap... I'm not aware of any O-Ring, and I didn't remember seeing one when she removed the hub assembly the first time. I'll have to check the service manual to see what you're talking about. We slid the axle into the transmission (first), and it appeared at the time it went in all the way (need to check again... haven't done it yet but will this weekend), and then inserted the other end of the axle directly into the wheel hub (after first installing the hub into the knuckle).
I'm also not aware at all of any steering knuckle lip seal. The only seals in the rear I'm aware of are on the transmission itself where the driveshaft went into it.
there is a grease slinger type seal that is on the back of the bearing on all fieros. most people do not put them back since they crumble and they are difficult to find. I do have a set but they ain't great. I might make a new set for my gt
there is a grease slinger type seal that is on the back of the bearing on all fieros. most people do not put them back since they crumble and they are difficult to find. I do have a set but they ain't great. I might make a new set for my gt
Are we sure we're talking about the 84-87 suspension in the rear? It's a sealed bearing that's attached to the inside of a wheel hub.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Are we sure we're talking about the 84-87 suspension in the rear? It's a sealed bearing that's attached to the inside of a wheel hub.
yeah? my spare 84 stuff has those seals to protect the splines and bearing from spray and deposits. go figure the running car doesn't have any though (Casper] its most likely not needed and instead a good idea
yeah? my spare 84 stuff has those seals to protect the splines and bearing from spray and deposits. go figure the running car doesn't have any though (Casper] its most likely not needed and instead a good idea
Thanks guys! I appreciate it. Absolutely crazy. The old hub assembly didn't even have those (assuming they had been replaced at some time). I mostly bought what I saw during the disassembly, and half the diagrams don't even show it. PMBrunelle, thanks for that! I'm going to hunt down those seals and install them... nice though, I can keep the knuckle in, and just remove the hub... although I already used red thread locker... haha...
Hey guys, really quick... this is the passenger side of the Muncie 5-Speed. Does this driveshaft look like it's far enough in? Or is there still a gap here that needs to be addressed?
Hey guys, really quick... this is the passenger side of the Muncie 5-Speed. Does this driveshaft look like it's far enough in? Or is there still a gap here that needs to be addressed?
Thanks!
Isuzu 5 speed? I'm not acquainted with the getrag-Muncie or the Isuzu, but how's it compare to the other side, I would think they should be equal.
[This message has been edited by 1985 Fiero GT (edited 10-06-2024).]
Isuzu 5 speed? I'm not acquainted with the getrag-Muncie or the Isuzu, but how's it compare to the other side, I would think they should be equal.
I got under the car earlier today (after I posted this) to check, and it's definitely in further on the other side... by at least a half-inch. :/
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad: To me it looks like it needs to go in further.
The tripot stub will 'snap' in and lock into the transmission when it is fully seated.
It will require prying out to remove
Yeah... it was hard removing the original ones, but I assumed a good hit with a rubber mallet would have seated it. I'll have to take another smack at it.
Yeah... it was hard removing the original ones, but I assumed a good hit with a rubber mallet would have seated it. I'll have to take another smack at it.
Thanks!
Physically push on the outer CV joint boot, holding the axle in a straight line. Smacking with a rubber hammer just compresses the tripot without applying much of the impact to push the stub into place.
Ok, I removed everything, and I'm pretty sure it's not because the driveshaft is not pushed in enough. I was able to remove the driveshaft, and really slammed that ***** in there, and I can't get it to go any further in.
I noticed when I removed everything, even when I removed the nut, the thing still pitched to an angle. I think it's absolutely as a result of the spring not being seated properly. I'm going to re-install everything and see if it's still pitched at an angle.
Ok, I removed everything, and I'm pretty sure it's not because the driveshaft is not pushed in enough. I was able to remove the driveshaft, and really slammed that ***** in there, and I can't get it to go any further in.
I noticed when I removed everything, even when I removed the nut, the thing still pitched to an angle. I think it's absolutely as a result of the spring not being seated properly. I'm going to re-install everything and see if it's still pitched at an angle.
if you need any pics lemme know man. the 84 is still assembled and I'm loading my gt up so I'll take a few
Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who responded, etc., and PMBrunelle for the link to that other thread.
The seals came in, and we installed them this afternoon. Got everything re-installed, removed the tone ring, packed that back area with gear grease, and installed the axle nut with the washer (which we had to save from the previous axle since the new one didn't come with it). Everything lines up perfectly, and we have near-perfect alignment as it's sitting right now. We'll still take it to a tires place to have an alignment done, but it'll be after the rest of the car is done. I'll post pictures later today.
