Attended the seminar got the T shirt (about solutions to trunk release problems). Factory '88 Formala with power trunk release switch stock. Rebody Fiero with NO trunk lock. I read here mostly about how to wire around the trunk locked, dead battery issue. It won't open.
Here's what I did; unplugged the power trunk switch at the dashboard. Applied 1.5A 12VDC power to the lower left GREY/BLACK wire which travels to the dash trunk relay. Grounded (-) to the door pin. Relay under dash clicked but nothing else.
Then... Applied 4A 12VDC power to the same GREY/BLACK wire. Grounded (-) wire to the cigarette lighter outer ring. This time both the relay under dash fired and the trunk solenoid loudly clicked and vibrated. Did this many times. Tried applying low medium high pressure to trunk. Tried to time it with the click. Tried moving the trunk lid slightly left and right. It will not open. You can feel there is something resisting it being released under there.
This is a rebody - it was probably done by Fejer in Canada on a brand new Formula 1988 V6 A/T car. There is no trunk lock installed. It had an aftermarket 'Excalibur' alarm installed on the car. I do not know how this was wired in. I know the prior owner told me he uses the alarm Fob to lock and unlock the car.
The car was parked unlocked in a garage. The alarm (and anything else problematic) drained the battery to dead after months sitting.
Anyone offer advise or help!? Another thing. Coilovers - this thing has been lowered incredibly and it's not possible to get any body part under the car unless it's jacked up. Car was driven 4 hours from being purchased to a garage for temporary storage and I don't have all my tools / jacks there. I am trying to move my car home finally (before winter / salt / snow). Thank you!
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 10-29-2024).]
The only way to attempt something like that would be to blindly drill thru my immaculate fiberglass body in the latch region and make a hole to try to screwdriver open the latch.
Is it possible that 4A of 12VDC thru a wall wart plug in AC converter is not enough juice to the trunk solenoid?
Or If I hear it clicking / thump that means it working 100% back there as it should I just have some other problem?
Could the alarm be hanging that up somehow ? (Door locks are open and unlocked - just as I stored car before the battery died).
It is possible to reach from under the car and somehow toggle the latch open (doubt it). Is it possible to almost make a slim Jim type thin tool to insert in just the right spot of the gap in the trunk and somehow get to that latch (I know I'm stretching here). But if the lock itself is not there (unknown) would that area already be cleared out and ready to have the latch moved manually??)
Is it worth me trying to rig up or buy a cigarette charger device and try to full charge the car's battery?
Thanks!
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 10-30-2024).]
The only way to attempt something like that would be to blindly drill thru my immaculate fiberglass body in the latch region and make a hole to try to screwdriver open the latch.
Is it possible that 4A of 12VDC thru a wall wart plug in AC converter is not enough juice to the trunk solenoid?
Or If I hear it clicking / thump that means it working 100% back there as it should I just have some other problem?
Could the alarm be hanging that up somehow ? (Door locks are open and unlocked - just as I stored car before the battery died).
It is possible to reach from under the car and somehow toggle the latch open (doubt it). Is it possible to almost make a slim Jim type thin tool to insert in just the right spot of the gap in the trunk and somehow get to that latch (I know I'm stretching here). But if the lock itself is not there (unknown) would that area already be cleared out and ready to have the latch moved manually??)
Is it worth me trying to rig up or buy a cigarette charger device and try to full charge the car's battery?
Thanks!
Before doing any damage... an option could be to jack the car up, and (with a new battery), use jumper cables connected to the POSITIVE lead on the starter, and anywhere on the ground of the vehicle for negative. The big fat positive cable from the battery goes directly to the starter motor... so that's where I'd connect it.
I think honestly... if you do this, and then have someone shake the trunk up and down while trying to pop the trunk lock, it should pop open. Like you said, it could be hanging up on something... or the trunk mechanism is just really gummed up.
Is it worth me trying to rig up or buy a cigarette charger device and try to full charge the car's battery?
A cigarette lighter charger will not charge a 'dead' battery, these units are 'trickle chargers' to maintain a health battery. A fully drained battery needs a slow charge; I suggest ~2AMP and I believe that the cigarette lighter circuit won't handle the current for the time needed.
quote
Applied 1.5A 12VDC power to the lower left GREY/BLACK wire which travels to the dash trunk relay.
The Grey/Black wire powers the relay IF the relay coil 'sees' ground {interlock circuit} through the manual parking brake switch or the park/neutral switch on automatics.
IF the trunk release solenoid is working properly: Remove the trunk release RELAY from the connector {located under the dash} At the trunk release relay CONNECTOR - the Black/White wire goes to the trunk release solenoid Using an automobile battery; supply the Black/White wire with 12V power briefly {don't hold it} with a good ground on the car This will energize the trunk release solenoid.... If the deck lid will not open, then the wire or the solenoid isn't functioning, or "something" is resisting the release in the truck.
------------------ Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles
[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 11-01-2024).]
As a last resort, I might take a jigsaw and cut the bottom of the trunk out. It'll be cheaper to weld that back in, than to fix your fiberglass lid. You might be able to get a bore-o-scope camera (Harbor Freight has inexpensive ones that work just fine) up into the trunk, and see what's going in. That is, if you know the trunk is empty, and they didn't mount anything in the trunk well or install a false floor.
Admittedly, this is kind of a "nuclear" option, but it's maybe a less damaging one.
Edit... If you're using a wall wart, it's probably not a "clean" DC current. It's probably only rectified (full wave or half wave?) AC. There's nothing to filter it and remove/average the peaks/pulses. (The batteries in your "device" would normally provide that filtering.) In reality, you're possibly only supplying ~8.5 "real volts". This is just an approximation - been a while since I actually had to calculate that stuff.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-31-2024).]
Ok. Thank you all for the ideas!!! At least I’ve got a glimmer of hope.
Next was thinking hooking up battery charger at 6A setting to the Grey/Black switch wire and grounded to cig lighter or door pin.
Next: try same supply at the relay Black/white wire. next: try fully charged battery on either / both. Could I save a little time and park car close and use jumpers from the good car battery to either switch or relay?
There is a car cover in the trunk. And a few small tools and maybe brake pads in a box. So a few things that were included in purchase. Nothing would be blocking the grounding trunk plate there. About 1000% sure of that.
Not sure if cutting from below would allow me clearance to trunk mechanism with that gear there.
Worst case might be a slowly drilled hole in correct spot and fill that later - but for obvious reasons I really don’t want to do that.
Can I try to charge dead battery from Under the car for 1-2 days on a 2A gentler setting? Can one hook up the positive lead to the thick starter wire and ground to frame? Would that work? Maybe not? Maybe bad for car electronics?
Can I try to charge dead battery from Under the car for 1-2 days on a 2A gentler setting? Can one hook up the positive lead to the thick starter wire and ground to frame? Would that work? Maybe not? Maybe bad for car electronics?
Even still... like I said, you can use jumper cables on the starter wire, which will directly feed back to the C500 block and provide power to the whole car... so you don't NEED to charge it that way unless you want to.
82: Yes you did say that. sorry about that. Should have re-read the thread.
So... I DID hook up a car battery that was fully charged with jumper cables to the wiring to the switch. Nice spark when I touched the positive lead to the + jumper cable. Relay loudly clicks, trunk solenoid loudly clicks. Same as before. Trunk will not actually open.
So... my best friend and co-driver drove 6 hours to go get this car with me. We both got about 5 hours of sleep the night before launching from a mid point in Vermont. I was bone tired with work schedule and had very foggy memory.
But he remembers me cross examining the seller who stated he always has this car on a battery tender, partly for the trunk access issue. And I said that's not good for my lifestyle (what the hell??) and after asking him several follow up questions, he said "Oh, that's easy, just use a very long screwdriver. You got a long screwdriver?" And since my friend jogged my memory two days ago I DO remember him saying that. Neither of us recall which area / zone he was speaking.
On the back of this r-ebodied car there is what must be a metal trunk lid. Dead center of the trunk area just under this metal flat horizontal trunk decklid is a small half moon cutout in the fiberglass vertical body that meet the trunk lid overhang. It's very slight, maybe 1/4" - 1/3" deep and about two inches width. I tried to fish something in there for a little bit but had no idea what's behind there or what I'm trying to access (aside from reading posts about drilling out trunk locks and manually turning the trunk release).
I also looked under the car on the passenger side at the rear and saw a bunch of stuff but not the starter or starter cable. That was just a quick look over to see where I may have to attach a battery charger soon.
ANY IDEAS where this long screwdriver might go? I should have taken a picture but I did not. It's a tight spot but I can get something small in there and wiggle it around.
-----warning semi rant follows.... (I do already love the little Fiero).
AND BY THE WAY... seriously WTF is up with the design?? What is the point? What cars out there ban you from under hood and battery access unless you have a fully charged battery to do an electronic release?? I suppose it's just me and my decades of driving maybe 200-300 cars maybe 500+ and I don't recall a car with this issue. Why not have a damn manual cable trunk release??
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 11-04-2024).]
"Oh, that's easy, just use a very long screwdriver. You got a long screwdriver?" And since my friend jogged my memory two days ago I DO remember him saying that. Neither of us recall which area / zone he was speaking.
On the back of this r-ebodied car there is what must be a metal trunk lid. Dead center of the trunk area just under this metal flat horizontal trunk decklid is a small half moon cutout in the fiberglass vertical body that meet the trunk lid overhang. It's very slight, maybe 1/4" - 1/3" deep and about two inches width. I tried to fish something in there for a little bit but had no idea what's behind there or what I'm trying to access (aside from reading posts about drilling out trunk locks and manually turning the trunk release).
ANY IDEAS where this long screwdriver might go? I should have taken a picture but I did not. It's a tight spot but I can get something small in there and wiggle it around.
Next time... take one.
Sounds to me like a long screwdriver can be used to twist the lock open in the same manner (without the pounding) that I described in this thread's second post.
quote
Originally posted by Green Magic Man:
-----warning semi rant follows.... (I do already love the little Fiero).
AND BY THE WAY... seriously WTF is up with the design?? What is the point? What cars out there ban you from under hood and battery access unless you have a fully charged battery to do an electronic release?? I suppose it's just me and my decades of driving maybe 200-300 cars maybe 500+ and I don't recall a car with this issue. Why not have a damn manual cable trunk release??
What? I hope you're not blaming Pontiac for the shortsightedness of whomever designed the rebody kit on your Fiero. As far as I know, all Fieros from the factory (including ones with electric trunk releases) had a trunk lock which could be manually unlocked and opened with a key.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-04-2024).]
Originally posted by Green Magic Man: Relay loudly clicks, trunk solenoid loudly clicks. Same as before. Trunk will not actually open.
If the trunk solenoid clicks that should mean its working. Something else is going on.
quote
Originally posted by Green Magic Man: ... he said "Oh, that's easy, just use a very long screwdriver. You got a long screwdriver?" And since my friend jogged my memory two days ago I DO remember him saying that. Neither of us recall which area / zone he was speaking.
Did you loose all contact information ?
quote
Originally posted by Green Magic Man: On the back of this r-ebodied car there is what must be a metal trunk lid. Dead center of the trunk area just under this metal flat horizontal trunk decklid is a small half moon cutout in the fiberglass vertical body that meet the trunk lid overhang. It's very slight, maybe 1/4" - 1/3" deep and about two inches width. I tried to fish something in there for a little bit but had no idea what's behind there or what I'm trying to access (aside from reading posts about drilling out trunk locks and manually turning the trunk release) ANY IDEAS where this long screwdriver might go?
I know exactly where it goes. The trunk key is connected to the release do hicky, which is connected to the actual trunk release latch. The do hicky is a flat piece of metal. When a lock is drilled out, a long Flat screw driver will reach the release latch.
The flat screwdriver needs to be oriented to match the opening on the release latch. The screwdriver edge should be vertical, aligning to the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position. It takes some fishing to get it into the release latch. Once in, turn clockwise.
quote
Originally posted by Green Magic Man: I should have taken a picture but I did not.
If I'm not mistaken, the Mejer company did basically Mera style rebodies so your car is a 308 replica. That's the issue with most of the replies. We are familiar with the stock Fiero "break in" points but your decklid is different so I'm not sure how the lock solenoid even mounts.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 11-04-2024).]
Oh Geez. I think I have to embark on an apology tour here. You're right - attack of the stupids. There would normally be a manual key lock there to open one's trunk. Correct, my bad, it's not Pontiac / GM fault. If there's blame it would be the re-body design, but I will gladly spot them a pass on this since I love the re-body.
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 11-04-2024).]
ISMA GT: You're basically right on. George Fejer made re-bodied 308 kits called the Mirage and 328 kits called the Mirage II (by the was is the IMSA also a rebody / for the Fiero? mostly different front end?)
cliffw: Thank you SO much for your clarifying comments about screwdriver orientation. I chuckled when you wrote "I know exactly where it goes..." Sounds like you must have had this issue in the past too. I did not know it went in vertical and knowing to turn CC is priceless info. Thank you ! (I was merely waving a 8" or 10" wand back and forth like a magician - that would never have worked. Where is Harry Potter?)
Vintage Nut: Thanks SO much for the pictures - that makes it clearer how this all works.
I've got a fairly long screwdriver and may got get an even longer one at other place that's almost 2' long. How far in does this have to get in there to hit that turny thingie?
I've got the Mirage I kit - I have not found identifiers positively on the body - if there are any (I would guess something would be noted somewhere). But the seller said it was made in "Barry" which I looked up to be "Barrie" Canada. Which is where Fejer worked from. Also the headlight louvers match the Fejer kits which many / most do not - they have louvers that extend past the actual Fiero headlight pop up to be lengthwise longer than some of the other copies out there. I found and saved a low resolution ad for his Mirage kits from back in the day. It's been very hard to glean almost any information on the Fejer Mirage - most of what little I found was posted up here long ago.
Sounds to me like a long screwdriver can be used to twist the lock open in the same manner (without the pounding) that I described in this thread's second post.
Please don't work on your brakes!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-05-2024).]
Typo. I know you wrote clockwise and read that. Mistype as I’m tired out after 27 days of work in October and five doubles, travel out of state, taxes return filed and real estate deal gone sideways. Last thing I really need is four 2 hour trips to this car to get it out of a temporary garage and to not be able to get it charged, started and running before snow and salt goes flying all over Vermont.
I re read again. Looks like the blade of screwdriver goes vertical 12 and 6 - that means vertical to me and turn CW. At least I didn’t write CCW. Thanks for assistances across the board here. I don’t have great personal pictures of the car yet as I did a single four hour drive home from purchase and half that driving was at night.
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 11-05-2024).]
Found these two pics online. Posting it here in case can help someone else reading this thread and to help me when I get there and look this up on my phone. This helps clarify how that latch is mounted and it's approximate distance in on the trunk lid.
What exactly the Fejer / Mera clone bodies did here I don't know but I'm just going to now guess they preserved this latch and orientation rather than reinvent the wheel. Plus that conversation with my co-driver on Saturday gives me confidence there is a way to do this with the screwdriver method and it's probably the same as what normal Fiero's do.
Here's pics I found on BaT of an actual Mera for sale. Notice how the lock is quite different - looks to be a much longer enclosed tunnel to get to that latch. You can also see the small half moon cutout of the lower vertical fiberglass body.
My Stinger body has a hole drilled under the license plate area, where using a long flat head screwdriver in a "strategic" manner, will allow opening the latch with no power involved.
The Stinger body is a little different in several areas than the Fejer bodies or any other knockoff, but the license plate area should be nearly identical, so the same procedure should be possible on your replica body.
I can get measurements for you, and/or take pics of the location of the hole if you think it might help you. When I first got the car, I wasn't sure what that hole was, briefly considered the possibility someone just drilled a hole for mounting the plate in the wrong spot, but after closer inspection, I discovered that it is for exactly the situation you are faced with, and tested it out, and that's how I know the true purpose of that hole now.
If you want/need pics, measurements, just let me know.
HAGO!
[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 11-07-2024).]
Yes, pictures would be terrific if that's not too difficult of an ask. I am going to try to fish in that area where that little arc / half moon is in the fiberglass. The only opening I have on my car it's right under the flat wide trunk lid. I have removed the license plates (see below) and there is no hole or cutout there. The only spot I can see viable to pop that latch would be that half circle cutout in the vertical fiberglass body.
On the pictured above car there is clearly a key lock cutout and lock installed in the lid vertical small area along with that tunnel. My car unfortunately doesn't have that.
I do have the seller's constant info. I'm a little pissed off at him as he owes me money for a deposit made on license plates I borrowed to get the car into this country. I mailed them back to him when I was working in Canada about 2 months later and he's refusing to return the deposit money. So I have not been in touch with him because ... I'm likely to go off on him about the situation.
I may have to do a combo or arguing with him and asking him how the hell I screwdriver my way into the car. All I can recall is he said it had to be a very long screwdriver. Maybe that indicated that tunnel length in the Mera above, but if there is no key lock and therefore access is only below that area... I would think the latch mechanism would be blocked by the trunk deck lid underside profile the way that latch mounts to it. So that's what I'm very concerned about. I should be driving back up there this weekend (t's 2+ hours from where I live and work).
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 11-08-2024).]
Yes, pictures would be terrific if that's not too difficult of an ask. I am going to try to fish in that area where that little arc / half moon is in the fiberglass. The only opening I have on my car it's right under the flat wide trunk lid. I have removed the license plates (see below) and there is no hole or cutout there. The only spot I can see viable to pop that latch would be that half circle cutout in the vertical fiberglass body.
On the pictured above car there is clearly a key lock cutout and lock installed in the lid vertical small area along with that tunnel.
My can unfortunately doesn't have that. I do have the seller's constant info. I'm a little pissed off at him as he owes me money for a deposit made on license plates I borrowed to get the car into this country. I mailed them back to him when I was working in Canada about 2 months later and he's refusing to return the deposit money. So I have not been in touch with him because ... I'm likely to go off on him about the situation.
I may have to do a combo or arguing with him and asking him how the hell I screwdriver my way into the car. All I can recall is he said it had to be a very long screwdriver. Maybe that indicated that tunnel length in the Mera above, but if there is no key lock and therefore access is only below that area... I would think the latch mechanism would be blocked by the trunk deck lid underside profile the way that latch mounts to it. So that's what I'm very concerned about. I should be driving back up there this weekend (t's 2+ hours from where I live and work).
I believe the Mera in your picture is built on a 1986 or later GT platform. You can tell by the shape of the weather stripping around the trunk. GT's from 1986 had the flying butresses and square-shaped trunk openings. The deck-lid in Cliff's pictures is from a coupe' . Note the oval-shaped area where the weather stripping would seal. Also, the lock assembly in the coupe' is mounted on the decklid and passes through the panel. On the GT, the keylock is mouonted under the decklid but doesn't pass through it. I believe it's further out than on the coupe' so that's why you're likely to need a long, flat-bladed scew driver with a blad about 1/4" wide.
If you are daring, try taking some nylon wedges and tapping them into the joint on one side of the lock. (I found them in the U.S. at a Home Depot hardware store. They are sold as shims that are used for centering windows and doors into opening when building or renovating houses. You could use wooden wedges but the nylon ones com in various sizes from 1/8/" to 1/2" at the big end.) By tapping in on one side of the lock, you may be able to get enough room to allow you to insert the screw driver and "pop" the lock. I'd be careful about shimming on both sides and it may cause the decklid to crack.
[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 11-07-2024).]
Did some heavy digging and tunneling email chains and a google link and found pics of my actual car! (Finally) These two pics are of my actual car and that area where the lock is. Quite interesting. It appears to me in the first picture like the 'lock tunnel' may have been deliberately cut / drilled for I hope this very purpose ! Also, It appears that the length of the latch to the rear of the fiberglass body is nowhere near as far as the Mera I found online. So that's hopeful. Possting these for those curious and in case it can help Fejer rebody owners (and other non-Mera splash mold 308 / 328 people). It will also help me when I get to the remote garage tomorrow night in the dark.
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 11-08-2024).]
Not sure if these will show up on this post or not...as they only exist on my computer....not anywhere on the "net"...as of yet.
If you can't see them, LMK and I can try to send them directly to you in a PM, or an email.
The hole you see there between the top license plate mounting holes, is right at 3 3/4" up from the bottom of the license plate recess, and 17 1/2" from the inside middle edge of the left (drivers side in the U.S.) tail/brake light lens.
If you can see the pics here, I've included the pic of the latch mechanism showing the "slot" where normally the flat rod that using the trunk key would turn, is on a stock Fiero, that's where you need to insert the flat head screwdriver and turn clockwise to open the latch.
I've also included a pic of how the latch assembly is mounted on my car, don't know that it's the same, or even close to how yours might be mounted, but it's got to be somewhat similar.
Again, if the pics don't show up in this thread, and you want them, LMK and I'll try sending them via PM or email.
Good luck!
HAGO!
[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 11-08-2024).]
Thanks Sage!! Yes I see the three pics. They’re now out there on the internets and longer your exclusive property lol.
I’m surprised how low that access hole is! Would never have guessed it was so far down the vertical body panel. I’m also curious if that mounting bracket you show in photo 3 is pure stock Fiero or if this was something the re-body maker did to lower the stock latch?
I’ve seen the Meras and several others have keyholes up quite high. So high in fact it’s in the lid itself not the lower vertical trunk body. Also I think that could be shared with stock Fieros from what I’ve seen online.
I’m wondering if mine is a “tweener” and splits the difference from the high mount key hole (and therefore metal bar / slot access to latch) and you’re setup which seems to be quite lower.
What does that mounting plate seem to you? Stock GM or third party shop made?
Thanks again. Really hoping this mystery ends well tomorrow night. Will post results and pics if I can ever get it opened.
[This message has been edited by Green Magic Man (edited 11-08-2024).]
Also studying the three sets of pics closely I think I may be in error: I’m now thinking the photo of my car simply cuts off the rest of the trunk lid. I’m actually thinking my setup might be identical to that Mera - the only exception is that the body on my car was never cut on the lid itself and therefore a lock was never installed. The tunnel from the mold is there. The tunnel was cut to gain manual access to an emergency lock out (dead batt). So I’m now thinking I do need an exceptionally long screwdriver and to try to follow that tunnel shell downward angle rather than straight horizontal insert of screwdriver and see how long it takes to hit a hole in one and twist. I’ll probably time myself.
I think I see where all the confusion lies. In a regular Fiero, the latching mechanism is mounted on the underside of the decklid. That also appears to be where it's mounted on GMM's rebody. However, on Sage's Stinger body, it appears (correct me if I'm wrong) that the latching mechanism is mounted down inside the trunk... and that's why the access hole from outside is so low. This also means of course that the metal "loop" (whatever it's called) that the mechanism catches on has been relocated as well. Regular Fiero, it's in the trunk... on a Stinger, it'll be on the underside of the decklid.
Oh interesting catch. So the Stinger is reversed? The hoop is on deck lid and the latch is in the car trunk / mounted on the vertical trunk body (behind the license plate area on the inside of car?) That’s quite a solution to the Stinger rebody. Love the Stingers by the way!!
Sage can confirm this... but yeah, that's gotta be how it's done.
Yes, that is the case on the Stinger, and the plate that the latch is mounted on is definitely a builder fabbed piece.
I have Fejers molds to make the 308 bodies, and I'm thinking that the "dip" in the taillight panel may have something to do with the latch mechanism, but I've not built one, so can't say for sure, but I do have a Fejer body sitting on an 88' chassis out at my shop, and I can check next time I'm able to make it out there, (sort of can't go anymore due to wife's situation), and see if that dip may be instrumental in tripping the latch without power or a key. Pretty long shot, and I know you want in your trunk...yesterday....but I'm somewhat limited, timewise for trips to the shop.
If/when I do make it out there, I'll report back on that situation.
Thanks Sage. You know what I think? That cutout dip in the fiberglass is to accommodate that metal tunnel for the latch lever that travels to the latch… Hoping to prove this theory in four hours. I bet that’s why it’s there. I can cram a very thin something in there.
As far as I know, all Fieros from the factory (including ones with electric trunk releases) had a trunk lock which could be manually unlocked and opened with a key.
