Some information in this post was edited to make this build thread an accurate depiction of the project...
Yes, I meant 1927! Yes, I think I have finally lost my mind. If you see it running around please contact me... Additionally, I need another project like I need a hole in my head, but I have stumbled across an idea in the vast expanses of my hyperactive imagination that is kind of irresistable.
On another forum, I said that someone needs to develop computer software that can analyze a hotrodder and predict what his or her preference in automotive toys will be at a given point in time, in the future. If I would have had access to that it would have told me that I would want a bare bones, four-banger powered, roadster, street rod in 2007. Such a beast to simultaneously satisfy my desire for an open air driving experience that I can enjoy on a daily basis, throughout the Midwest good weather season, even with three-buck a gallon gas prices. Around the same time, on that same forum, I read about "steampunk" - Google it...
The lost mind, mental hyperactivity, steampunk idea, and daily "hits" of this forum, have caused me to conjure up this idea. One type of "steampunking" applies old technology to modern ideas, kind of like this:
My projects usually involve a "what if" scenario. In this case, with a slight steampunk influence, it's "what if Ferruccio Lamborghini had moved to America in the Roaring Twenties, started working for Pontiac, and come up with the idea for the Fiero?
The hard parts and layout are where the Fiero really comes in. Just like the steampunk enthusiasts who take actual laptops and make them look like they were created in the steam era, my plan would be to take actual Fiero suspension parts and make them look like they were created in 1927. If I do, it I will rob my current street rod project of its narrowed Fiero front suspension. I have a Fiero cradle and rear suspension cut and ready for the back. I also have a 3100SFI/4T60E from a 93 Cutlass Supreme for motivation. I also have Fiero pedals, and master cylinder for the controls. The frame and body would be scratch-built. The frame would be a standard 2x3-inch ladder style frame, with kick up for the Fiero front suspension crossmember up front, and the actual rear cradle main rails welded in out back. I haven't started mocking anything up yet so I am not sure, but I think I would need to find some shorter struts to fit under the body. I would want it to be as low as possible.
The body design is my next challenge. I have to incorporate hints of Fiero in a basic roadster body design. Some of the concrete facts are a lowboy profile, really low track nose, exposed powertrain (form-fitting cutout in deck lid), and mesh "diffuser" to let the air out. Now, I have to stare at some pictures of Fieros to see what I can incorporate. One thing I am definitely thinking about is the logo, but that's in the final finish (maybe in the grilles too). By the way, the car would lean more towards the rat rod end of the spectrum. Maybe even some salt-blasted numbers on the sides...
This post is full of "would" and "would be" because I haven't decided to build it yet. I am seriously considering it though. I have the main parts I need, and the skills to make it happen, it's just matter of applying logic now to see if it really makes sense. It would take the Camaro's place as my budget hot rod driver. I lost focus and went completely overboard with it, and it's just too hard on gas to be a real driver now. If my logic is sound, this plan would allow me to really push the limits of my skills with my current street rod project, and go just a little bit further with the Camaro, while I drive the crap out of this one.
Any thoughts, comments, ideas? ------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-07-2007).]
I started doing some rough sketching to figure out what could be done for a body. The nose was inspired by the GT front fascia, but I rolled the bottom edge for a more street roddish appearance. The other more obvious Fiero cue is the round body side molding. It is a natural for a street rod body because they usually have some type of roll like this. Of course, it would be an integral part of the body - not an add on. What makes it "Fiero" is the lower placement. On a traditional thirties street rod, it would run just under the beltline (where the body and window glass meet).
The steering wheel and shifter are two of the only parts I would invest a lot of fabrication time in (beside the body and frame). The steering wheel would be a resin cast 12-inch wheel, made to look like a shrunken two-spoke fifties style wheel. I would also want it to appear to be a well-used, decades-old, junkyard part. The shifter would be custom made with a tapered, swan-style, arm; and a real baseball knob. The seats would just be upholstered pads bolted to the roll bar and floor.
The radiator would be rear mounted with the side intakes feeding it cool air. The big velocity stack intake is just an idea. I have to experiment with 3D models to come up with something. Ideally I think I would like to have Hilborn style stacks, of varying angles and heights, which are really just runners for a hidden remote TB. Okay, so now it's three major fabrication projects! The problem is doing a few exotic parts and not letting myself go too far and turn the project into a money/time trap...
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-14-2007).]
Steampunk crafts are totally off the hook and very very cool. I at first thought you were going to shoehorn a steam engine in the back of a Fiero and make it go fast that in it self would totally blow my mind. I think I get what your going for but a 3D model would defineatly help the imagination along. When I think of steampunk vehicles I think of heavy iron plating riveted together and shiny chrome features to make it all stand out. I will watch this thread as you make your decisions and I support your efforts in doing any thing both steampunk and Fiero related.
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: Steampunk crafts are totally off the hook and very very cool. I at first thought you were going to shoehorn a steam engine in the back of a Fiero and make it go fast that in it self would totally blow my mind. I think I get what your going for but a 3D model would defineatly help the imagination along. When I think of steampunk vehicles I think of heavy iron plating riveted together and shiny chrome features to make it all stand out. I will watch this thread as you make your decisions and I support your efforts in doing any thing both steampunk and Fiero related...Daniel
It's not actually a steampunk Fiero. The concept is heavily influenced by steampunk methodology. That being said, the more steampunk stuff I see the more I love it. I am thinking about using a lot of copper. The reason is I can use faux finishes to gain the old world appearance on a shoestring budget.
I have my generic set of 3D wheels set up for the 115-inch wheelbase, 43.5-inch front track, and 61-inch rear track. The real world wheels would be 15x3.5's with 135R15's up front; and 15x6's with 205/70R15's in back. The wheels don't really fit the period, but I want to use them. They are Cragar 5-spoke aluminum wheels that I had on my Fiero. The plan is to have the fronts narrowed from 6 to 3.5-inches. Hopefully, being painted flat black will help them blend in.
I don't know how long it will take me to get any significant work done on the model. I am working on this now because I am not doing very much work this weekend. I needed to relax for a couple days and spend some time with my wife and foster son. Monday, I am supposed to push this back to spare time status.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-15-2007).]
Since the radiator is in back, and draws it's cooling air from the sides, a front grille is not necessary. I would want an intake for a cockpit vent, so Icame up with this. The Fiero logo would be water-jet cut, maybe even from real copper since it's a small piece. It would be mounted to look like it's floating in the opening.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-15-2007).]
Not sure about running roadster type fenders. Might be better able to achieve speed with a little more downforce on the front. Consider the 8 Shark car with the Fiero Warehouse lower front spoiler. http://www.ovis.net/~dmkfie...front_spoiler_84.jpg
Some information in this post was edited to make this build thread an accurate depiction of the project...
quote
Originally posted by FierOmar: ...Might be better able to achieve speed with a little more downforce on the front...
Sorry the title is a bit misleading. I would definitely run it across the salt if the opporunity presented itself, but this one would be built to be driven daily on public roads. Land Speed Racer is basically part of the theme. The car would be a phantom 1927 Pontiac Fiero, with lots of steampunk influence.
So, (deep breath) imagine finding a Fiero that was originally built in 1927. The guy who found it, and is restoring it for street duty in the 21st century, is a big steampunk enthusiast...
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-07-2007).]
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...I will watch this thread as you make your decisions and I support your efforts in doing any thing both steampunk and Fiero related.
Daniel
I forgot to say thanks
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
Looks awesome. Do you mind If i do some Ideation sketches for you? I am in automotive design and have to do sketches every week, and it is easier if I have a project/direction.
Looks awesome. Do you mind If i do some Ideation sketches for you? I am in automotive design and have to do sketches every week, and it is easier if I have a project/direction.
Thanks! Let's have some fun then, I don't mind at all! Do you want more info, or do you just want to draw something you "see" from what you read here?
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-15-2007).]
did you see this already? A swedish guy builds midengined volvo hotrods / prototypes: I like the first one much more...heres one of my sketches of a retro/modern roadster:
Out of curiosity are you thinking of working sheet metal for the body or would you stick with something like Fiberglass which would be more Fiero like? Would this be a single seater or two seater and if it's a two seater would you consider front and back seats instead of side by side? I might try drawing up what I have in mind in the interest of exploration to see how close I am to what your thinking of.
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: Out of curiosity are you thinking of working sheet metal for the body or would you stick with something like Fiberglass which would be more Fiero like? Would this be a single seater or two seater and if it's a two seater would you consider front and back seats instead of side by side? I might try drawing up what I have in mind in the interest of exploration to see how close I am to what your thinking of...
* It's going to be fiberglass because, as you said, it's more in keeping with the Fiero heritage; and because I am determined to stick to a small budget, "fast" build plan. * It will definitely be a two-seater, and it will be the boring side-by-side configuration. Same reason - to keep myself from getting in too deep.
I would love to see what you have in your head
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I started playing with a three-quarter view sketch, and some modeling, to start sorting out some of the details. One thing I figured out so far is I want a double hoop roll bar. I have to find a shop that can bend the 1.5" DOM or moly tubing though. All the local shops here only have 6" dies, and no rollers.
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I am trying to have as much fun with this as I can tonight, because tomorrow I gotta get back to work... I have a LOT of work to do on this. Obviously, I haven't modeled the nose, the rear roll pan, the side bead, or cut the cockpit out yet. I am just trying to get a idea of what it could look like. In this model, I wanted to see what it would look like with a really radical taper as it progresses forward.
Another decision I made is that I wouldn't have doors. I would have upholstered pads on the sills. Plant your rump, swivel and drop! For more access to what's underneath the entire body would pivot up, funny car style. The reason for this is to reduce the time and expense needed to make the body. Door jambs and functional doors, from scratch, are a LOT of extra work. It would also reinforce the race car theme.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-16-2007).]
ok, i gotta say that i think your insane, but i LOVE your style! when i get done with Wyotech i want to come work for you, NO JOKE!think youll have a position for me in a year and a half?
Originally posted by tednelson83: ok, i gotta say that i think your insane, but i LOVE your style! when i get done with Wyotech i want to come work for you, NO JOKE!think youll have a position for me in a year and a half?
Thanks and PM sent.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
Possible Inspiration and a quick word about how this anime series (Last Exile) is completely freaking awesome. If you like steampunk you will enjoy this series.
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...Possible Inspiration and a quick word about how this anime series (Last Exile) is completely freaking awesome. If you like steampunk you will enjoy this series.
I LOVE that - thanks for posting it! I have no idea what Last Exile is - video game?!?! If so, that explains it cuz my only involvement with video games is staying away from them. I am from the pinball/pacman/arcade era and I never did any of those either. I prefer a set of Craftsman tools, pen/pencil and paper, or a puter and design software...
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Took a little break from work, and guess what I did The three-quarter view has a lot of flaws because I just use it as a scratch pad for the 3D model. What I am doing now is bringing some steampunk influence into the design, and constantly trying to reinforce the Fiero "heritage".
I added an artistic interpretation of the Fiero GT's lower cladding. For the steampunk influence, I added large (maybe .75 to 1.0-inch diameter) copper rivets around the upper edge. I also added an outer trim ring to the Fiero emblem to make it stand out more. There is also a riveted copper mounting strip on the frameless split-V windshield. I was thinking about copper mesh for the headrests, but I keep imagining my head slamming into it
Back to work...
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I finally made the decision to build the car Big thanks to everyone who is helping ward away my sanity
I am naming it the "Timepiece" timepiece \-pes\ n : a device (as a clock) to show the passage of time
You're right on target with some of the stuff you posted Gokart. Especially the clock/watch thingy. I am going to use the gauge cluster from the Cutlass but I plan to see what I can do with it. I separated my Fiero and Camaro gauges and mounted them in pods of my own design. If I can do the same with the Cuddy gauges, I plan to make something like what you posted. Ideally, I would love to have them on an actual copper panel with the markings acid etched in.
Another one you hit close to home with is the steering. I am using the narrowed Fiero rack, and it will be right in front of the nose. In fact, the whole front suspension setup will be exposed, as the nose will nest right in the loop of the crossmember. I have to figure out what finishes will be on all of this stuff.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-16-2007).]
Even though I am not going for the "full-on" steampunk look, I am finding a lot of creative freedom in the concept. Take the front suspension for instance. I decided to steal it from my other street rod project because I realized that for the effort I was going to put into it to make it aesthetically complementary to that vehicle I could build something better from scratch.
On this project, it all becomes so simple. Instead of having to fabricate tubular control arms, I am just going to box and smooth the factory parts. I was going to use rod ends in place of the factory outer tie rod ends, but they look fine now. It's just a matter of a little detailing, and the right finishes, to make my little narrow front suspension setup work.
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i actualy think the rusty look of the setup as i see it in the pics is enough of a finish, and would hive it that "old" look you seak. again, i am not there to see it, but it looks very fitting as is. i would love to see more drawings of what you are intending to do. just how "Fieroesque" are you looking to get?
Possible Inspiration and a quick word about how this anime series (Last Exile) is completely freaking awesome. If you like steampunk you will enjoy this series.
i want one of these! that pic is awesome, i would love to drive that to a show, tho i think i would do something a bit different with the nose, im not so sure i like the gun thingy on the front.
[This message has been edited by tednelson83 (edited 07-17-2007).]
The three-quarter view has a lot of flaws because I just use it as a scratch pad for the 3D model. What I am doing now is bringing some steampunk influence into the design, and constantly trying to reinforce the Fiero "heritage".
Your body sketch echoes the Pontiac arrowhead, both in overall form and in the detail of the split V windscreen... shape within shape. Nice touch.
Some information in this post was edited to make this build thread an accurate depiction of the project...
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Originally posted by tednelson83: i actualy think the rusty look of the setup as i see it in the pics is enough of a finish, and would hive it that "old" look you seak. again, i am not there to see it, but it looks very fitting as is. i would love to see more drawings of what you are intending to do. just how "Fieroesque" are you looking to get?
It looks pretty much like the pics. I have some work to do on it and the areas that I work on will end up being smooth clean steel. I guess I could just let it sit outside sometimes and let time even it all out
The drawings, models, and actual build pics will keep coming. The progess may be a bit slow at times, but I am fully commited now.
I want it to make sense to people when they read or hear "1927 Pontiac Fiero". I don't want it to look like an 80's Fiero that has been turned into a street rod. If I accomplish my goal, the unintiated would walk up to it at a show, read the card, and say, "I didn't know they made Fieros way back then!" I would tell them that it's just a concept
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Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Get ... motorcycle radiators. With 2 long and flat from a cruizer and 2 curved from a sport bike should satisfy cooling needs.
The body is designed around a rear-mounted, full-sized radiator. I plan to drive the crap out of it, and simplicity is the key to reliability... I'll keep that idea in mind for future projects though.
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Originally posted by fierohobby: Your body sketch echoes the Pontiac arrowhead, both in overall form and in the detail of the split V windscreen... shape within shape. Nice touch.
Thanks! I'm trying. Actually this is one of the most fun design projects I have ever done. The worlds of rat rods and steampunks are incredibly free and fun! Sometimes I find the silent rules of what you should and shouldn't do with YOUR car in most of the other segments of the hobby to be very annoying. That is the penalty for turning your hobby into your occupation though...
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-07-2007).]
Pontiac "Arrow-head" LogoA Native American Headdress was used as a logo until 1956. This was changed to the currently used Native American red arrowhead design after GM realized that Pontiac was suffering from some confusion with other marques. In particular, the 1955 and 1956 Pontiacs had grilles reminiscent of Mercury and fins and taillights reminiscent of Oldsmobiles.
Besides the 'Indian head' logo, another identifying feature of Pontiacs were their 'silver streak' - one or more narrow strips of chrome-plated steel which extended from the grille down the center of the hood. Eventually they extended from the rear window to the rear bumper as well, but ultimately along the tops of the fins instead. Although intially a single 'silver streak', this stylistic trademark doubled for a short time to two, representing the cylinder banks. The streaks along with their grille ripples and the fins were all discarded at the same time as the Indian head logo.
[This message has been edited by tednelson83 (edited 07-17-2007).]
Playing with an idea for the intake. Initially, I will be running the stock 3100 intake and TB, to get everything sorted out and running right; and to get it registered. In the meantime, I will be working on this concept. The inspiration is Pontiac Tri-Power. After reading the thread on dual plenum/dual TB intakes, I came up with this plan for the Timepiece.
I am going modify a spare stock intake (which I just scored today - along with heads, TB, etc - whole top end) to mount three 3100 throttle bodies on top, inline. I didn't draw the TB's under the stacks because I just scratch stuff on the sketch in my spare time. The center TB will be the main piece, and the outer two will be stripped down and cleaned up with progressive linkage that opens them after half throttle.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-17-2007).]
Additionally, I need another project like I need a hole in my head, but I have stumbled across an idea in the vast expanses of my hyperactive imagination that is kind of irresistable._lo_res.jpg)
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