* scratched in some generic lines to represent the throttle bodies under the stacks * erased the rear wheels so I can concentrate more on the body design in this sketch * rolled the lower cladding, in bead form, around the axle shaft opening * enlarged the rivets in the lower cladding * roughed the radiator intakes in better, and added rivets * added the shifter and steering wheel
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-18-2007).]
Just an idea for the front as it looks too narrow. Widen it abit and maybe attach a bumperpad. I know you started with the aero nose concept but it is just an idea,
I worked on the upholstery today. My plan is to make fiberglass panels and glue the upholstery material to it, pull it around the edges and glue it on the back, then add copper rivets to give it a finished look that matches the car. This eliminates the need for a sewing machine (and someone who can us it $$$).
I love rivets on this car!
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-18-2007).]
looking good so far! so when does the fabrication start?
------------------ Currently a student at Wyotech in Sacramento. 1987 Pontiac Fiero GT, 148,000 miles!decklid window, silver guages. rear ended someone, and now the rebuilding starts! More pics of my 87 GT can be found here 1985 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 auto, 222K miles and counting <-my first car, and i still cant get rid of her! 2002 Toyota Celica GT, 5-speed, 47K miles <-FOR SALE! A 4 year olds knowledge of science: No matter how much jello you put into a swimming pool you still can't walk on water.
Just an idea for the front as it looks too narrow. Widen it abit and maybe attach a bumperpad. I know you started with the aero nose concept but it is just an idea,
I understand what you mean but the narrow nose is one of the things I like most.
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Originally posted by tednelson83: looking good so far! so when does the fabrication start?
I've been collecting parts and searching through what I already have. I am hoping to do a mockup with the front and rear suspension soon, so I can start designing the actual frame. I need to get my Camaro on the road first though. I would like to have the frame built before summer is out, so I can focus on the body through the winter. That's kind of a catch-22 because if I wait until I have a drive-able chassis (ala Fiero) to do the body, I may not have enough time to finish it for next summer. Conversely, if I start on the body and don't get finished in time it will have the whole chassis tied up and I may not get it finished. Maybe I can make a fixture for the body plug that will allow me to install and remove it easily.
I got a pair of struts from a Geo Metro today. I haven't compared them but I am hoping they are short enough to fit under the body. I would have to fabricate an adapter to mount them to the Fiero uprights, but I wanted to do that to move them in anyway.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-18-2007).]
A quick word on Last Exile is that it is a Japanese cartoon series (Anime). They make cartoon series that are more for older teens and adults. The vehicle I posted is actually a flying machine called a vanship that runs off of steam but the heating fuel is something completely made up and has a sort of anti gravity property so the ships don't need wings. That particular vanship is a message carrier and the front has connections so it can dock with other floating vehicles. I would highly recommend it of you want to expand you viewing horizons a bit. The series is only 26 episodes long so it's not really a huge time commitment compared to other longer running series.
I got a pair of struts from a Geo Metro today. I haven't compared them but I am hoping they are short enough to fit under the body. I would have to fabricate an adapter to mount them to the Fiero uprights, but I wanted to do that to move them in anyway.
Ok so I took the liberty of tracing your initial design and since I like to help so much I decided to throw in somethings I thought would look neat. I hope I didn't over step any lines here but my main issue with the design was the head rests. My thought was originally to throw in something like a double hump much like what the solstice has but then I decided to throw in a distinctive Fiero cue and make the body a fastback with a real short rear window. Pretty much if you remove the roof on a fastback Fiero what would be left was my inspiration. I then decided to do a different windshield and added something like a center console. Just thought I'd throw it in the mix. Plus the 84' look got me thinking so I sketched up a bumper pad nose. Maybe?
Daniel
[This message has been edited by The Poopsmith (edited 07-18-2007).]
Trust me, I have considered it! I even have a design for a quarter-elliptical leaf setup that would replace the struts. I have learned, the hard way, that once I start doing stuff like that it all spirals out of control! This car is to fill the shoes that my Camaro was supposed to - a budget hot rod driver; and one that is relatively easy to throw together and enjoy.
Interestingly, the Metro stuts are about the same length as the Fieros. I think I am going to use them though because they are much lighter, and lighter duty, since they are from (the front of) such a small lightweight car. If I narrow the mounting point on the Fiero upright, they will even bolt up to it. If I make the adapter bracket I can drop them about two-inches, and then with the top mount I plan to use I can cut another inch-and-a-half off the top (after threading it down further). I can cut two coils from the factory Metro spring for now and see how it rides. If that works, my rear suspension will be finished for very little money (struts were free) and not a lot of extra labor.
I was also proud of myself today because I have really learned my lesson about going too far. I wanted to see what the Cutlass gauge cluster looked like inside, and started removing screws. After about fifteen minutes of messing with it, I remembered how much time it took to do the Camaro's gauges. I put all the screws back! I am just going to do the best I can to make the cluster look at home in the dash, as it is. Actually, I might be able to take advantage of it and design something fitting. I am going to do a sketch tonight or tomorrow.
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Originally posted by The Poopsmith: Ok so I took the liberty of tracing your initial design and since I like to help so much I decided to throw in somethings I thought would look neat. I hope I didn't over step any lines here but my main issue with the design was the head rests. My thought was originally to throw in something like a double hump much like what the solstice has but then I decided to throw in a distinctive Fiero cue and make the body a fastback with a real short rear window. Pretty much if you remove the roof on a fastback Fiero what would be left was my inspiration. I then decided to do a different windshield and added something like a center console. Just thought I'd throw it in the mix. Plus the 84' look got me thinking so I sketched up a bumper pad nose. Maybe?...
You're not overstepping at all. Just promise you won't get mad if I don't bite on 'em; or if I just use elements of your ideas. Also for anyone who posts ideas or information here, please remember that even if I don't do it someone else reading the thread may find the help they need.
That being said, I actually like your design, and like the bumper pad front too. For me personally, it's a little too "new" looking but I really wish someone else would be inspired to build their own Fiero street rod - with that body. I would like to see it built. It's hard for me to convey with sketches, and unfinished 3D models, but my goal is for my car to look really old. Even though people will be looking at a lot of modern technology I want it to just look like technology that was ahead of its time - kind of like the pyramids.
One thing you did better with than me is the height of the deck. I was doing some rearranging in the shop today and decided that I might as well put Timepiece's parts where they are going, instead of moving them fifty times. I blocked the powertrain up six-inches off the floor, sat the cradle and suspension halves with it and grabbed the tape measure. I would have a lot more motor sticking up out of the deck than my sketches suggest! I don't really want to raise the body height so I am toying with a bulge to help the motor look like it belongs. I mocked a piece of wood up about where the seat will be and I think the top of the stock motor (EFI plenum) would be almost even with the roll bars in my sketches.
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The Cutlass gauge cluster. Maybe just a copper panel to go over it that has round holes for the individual gauges, with bezels that extend in and fit flush against the panel.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-19-2007).]
I know whatever you build will be pretty awesome so I'm just doing my part in keeping you and others interested in this project so we can all someday gaze upon a early 30s rat rod Fiero. Did you say you are going to use the Fiero V6 or what was the plan for engine and transmission?
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: I know whatever you build will be pretty awesome so I'm just doing my part in keeping you and others interested in this project so we can all someday gaze upon a early 30s rat rod Fiero. Did you say you are going to use the Fiero V6 or what was the plan for engine and transmission? Daniel
Thanks, I really appreciate that. And please keep "doing your part" because it is definitely helping me. Hot rod projects are always more enjoyable when you have someone to share them with who understands - so thanks to all of you guys for your positive responses and help
I am using a 3100SFI and 4T60E from a 93 Cutlass. Mainly because I have it, and have the title to the car it came from. In Ohio, you have to have documentation to prove where every part came from or they can confiscate the vehicle right there!!!
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Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...so we can all someday gaze upon a early 30s rat rod Fiero...
If miracles still happen, and one takes place here, I would love for this car to go to the 25th event. If things go really well it's possible that I could be driving the car by then, but managing the logistics of getting me and the car there would be challenging to say the least.
My ultimate goal would be to make the Goodguys show in Columbus Ohio earlier that month, and trying to schedule them back to back... Maybe I can find a way to send the car without me if it's ready in time.
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I am counting on using a lot of faux finishes to create the rat rod/steampunk image. I love this one, and have to learn how to do this: Copper leaf foil that has been oxidized.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-19-2007).]
I finished my regular shop work for the day a little early, and rather than resume cleaning and organizing I decided to work on the mock-up. I have been thinking a lot about what I am doing, and trying to find the pitfalls. It's those little projects that seem so simple, until you get halfway into them, that kill goals and deadlines. Sometimes whole projects. Getting the mock-up officially underway is helping me make some important decisions.
First, when I got the rear cradle/suspension halves set up closer to their actual positions I stuck a couple bolts in to hold the Geo struts in place. The upper mounts will be the same height as the motor. I realized that I need to bring the deck up to the motor height. It is plenty low enough in real life and too much work to go any lower.
Next, I starting experimenting with seating positions and steering linkage. The hours and cost kept adding up and then I remembered this:
quote
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...Would this be a single seater or two seater and if it's a two seater would you consider front and back seats instead of side by side?...
Out of curiousity, I moved the mock-up seat to the center and forward enough to squeeze the passenger seat behind it. Awesome!!! I have tried this countless times before in my head, on paper, and with mock-ups, but it never really "fit". My ultra narrow Fiero rack was made for this! It is a straight shot with only two U-joints needed. It could be done with one, but two lifts the steering linkage up and makes room for normal pedal spacing. I raised the passenger seat three-inches and it is perfect. The passenger's feet straddle the driver's seat. Can you say four-wheeled motorcycle!
So in one day of actual mock-up work my little project has become much simpler, and incredibly more radical! That is usually an oxymoron with hot rod projects. I really love this project
The last thing for the day was the wheels. Over five hundred bucks (with tires) just to have ultra skinny front runners is a waste. That look would actually fit my other street rod better anyway, and I already have 4-inch front wheels for it. When I was "sitting in" the mock-up car the feel was no longer Land Speed Racer; it now feels like a road racer - which is more fitting for a Fiero anyway, right? I decided that I am just going to get a pair of 195/50R-15's for the front and run 235/60R15's in back. This will create a more road race type appearance, and clears the way for me to eventually move up to 17's and 20's later. I think the ideal wheels for this car now would be black Dayton wires, preferrably knock-offs. Wonder if they'd sell a set with no finish, so I could let them rust?! Maybe I can convince them to sponsor me when it's all together...
To sum it all up, I "saved enough money" today that it is going to be very cheap for me to have a running drive-able chassis by next summer.
Artwork coming soon
If anyone wants to experiment with it the steering wheel will be approximately 36-inches from the front axle centerline. In vintage roadracing tradition, I want to pull the cowl right up to the steering wheel (with room for my hands of course) and make it rounded on top to follow the shape of the wheel. I don't want a big Greyhound bus steering wheel though, just complementary shapes.
The motor is 34-inches from the ground to the top of the plenum, and the body will be about 32-inches to let the plenum poke through the deck.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-20-2007).]
Looks awesome. Do you mind If i do some Ideation sketches for you? I am in automotive design and have to do sketches every week, and it is easier if I have a project/direction.
Gauges: use different metals for covers. Engine turned aluminum speedo, beaten bronze tach, steel minor gauges, brass backing. Use copper with screws like this for edging of the gauges. Watch electrolsis do its magic.
What about motorcycle rims with knockoffs? Maybe too much fabricating, maybe not...
Chevy Tandem 2000 2 seater front to back, pics can be found herel Scroll from the bottom.
[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 07-20-2007).]
Gauges: use different metals for covers. Engine turned aluminum speedo, beaten bronze tach, steel minor gauges, brass backing. Use copper with screws like this for edging of the gauges. Watch electrolsis do its magic.,,
I like that idea, thanks!
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: What about motorcycle rims with knockoffs? Maybe too much fabricating, maybe not...
Not too much for me to do. Too much for my goals here - quick-n-dirty.
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hey, what about some modern design, converted to steampunk ?.. - About building I think by using simple aluminium and copper plating and some shaped profiles you can rivet everything together which may be easier than using fiberglass....you already get the right (real) look and you could easily use some chemicals on these parts to get the weared look....it may be also cool to combine some 'modern' parts like carbon fiber and leds....sort of 'neo-steampunk'
heres something ive been playing with, tried to reuse some of the fastback outlines, yes I tried. :
I like that Fie Ro. It's too modern for me, but I think the second one is awesome! Then I started thinking that someone could actually build a steampunk Fiero pretty easily by adding riveted metal panels. A notchy would be an excellent base for one.
So, what do you guys think? The sketch is rough because, as I stated before, I just use it as a scratch pad to help me think. I raised the deck height as mentioned previously, and tried the tandem seats.
The thing I like most about it is the thought of driving it on a twisty road, or exit ramp. It would have to be like driving a vintage race car, because you're perfectly centered and the front wheels are right there in your face! You can actually see the the tires following "the line". Behind your head you can hear the motor gulping fresh air through the intake, and a little further back that nasty growl!
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-20-2007).]
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Behind your head you can hear your passenger screaming for dear life...
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Can't wait to see it at the 25th. ...
Don't hold me to that. My plate is pretty full right now, but if it is possible...
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: ...can you draw in the wheels? Not exactly sure on the front end. I'm thinking it's going to be in front of the nose cone...
I'll work on it. I like being able to see the body clearly in that sketch. What I really need to do is get this body modeled so we can see it from all angles.
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i want one of these! that pic is awesome, i would love to drive that to a show, tho i think i would do something a bit different with the nose, im not so sure i like the gun thingy on the front.
That's not a gun, that's the drive and it's on the rear. Look for "The Last Exile" anime series, I like that one, haven't finished watching the whole series yet though. I'm sure you can find it as a bittorrent, going to be harder to find otherwise.
I was "sitting in" the mockup today and realized that I could move the seats back quite a bit. I usually like to drive in the long-arm/long-leg position (seat pretty far back) and that is what made the nose so short in the last sketch. After moving the seats back, I found out that I can pull the steering wheel back twelve-inches, and still be reasonably comfortable!
I have a long way to go on the new sketch, but this is a "sneak peek". Much better balance, yah?
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-22-2007).]
A little more detail. Not sure how I would accomplish the Indian head cooling intake.
quote
Originally posted by tednelson83: much better, i like the "fin" behind the back seat!
Thanks. The "fin" serves a double purpose. Of course because it looks good; and because I can add protective materials to the inside, for heat, fire, and broken engine parts.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-22-2007).]
I am glad to see you gave front/back seating a try I think that will be one of the more interesting pieces of the car to see how it turns out when you work on it. I am liking the over all look of the car with every design change. I will admit I am not the biggest fan of the large Pontiac logo on the side I liked the original design more as I think the Pontiac logo is a bit distracting from the rest of the car mainly due to it's size. I would vote yay for 100 spoke Daytons, they are a good wheel to fit the look of something old and steampunkish.
quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:
1930's Auto Union Silver Arrow
This car is one of the cars I immediately thought of when I first read about this project and it holds high marks in my book of awesome.
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...I am liking the over all look of the car with every design change...
Thank you. You guys have been invaluable to me in developing the concept. I like this project more and more everyday, and can't wait to get started building the frame and body! I had to force myself to go back to work on the Camaro, so I would have a hot rod on the street for the second half of the season. I am hoping the Camaro brings in some extra work so I can start dumping some time and money into the Timepiece...
quote
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...the large Pontiac logo on the side... is a bit distracting from the rest of the car mainly due to it's size...
I was just having fun. I did figure out how I can make the Indian head intake (if I decide to use it). If I model it, I can have it cut in wood at a local art & sign shop. I can have the "negatives" cut and use them as molds to make fiberglass pieces, that would be covered with copper leaf foil and clearcoated. I also found copper mesh:
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-24-2007).]
I keep going over this and over it again, in my head, trying to find the pitfalls. Building the frame, and developing a running rat rod-style chassis is relatively easy for me. I think the body is where the project could get off track. All it would take is a couple day-to-day life distractions to leave me sitting with a half-finished car, and frustrated outlook. So, I am thinking about this: It cuts my fiberglass work down to a few tasks, as opposed to developing an entire body from scratch. I would purchase a cheap T-bucket body, and track style nose - total cost around $600 delivered. I would have to narrow the body and create the "hood" and rounded cowl to connect the nose and body. I would also have to fill in part of the grille area. Here's the body and track nose: Finally, I would create the turtle deck powertrain cover, which is a fairly simple shape to accomplish. Go get my title, and I would be on the road...
So, do you think it still looks good and the compromise is worth it - or - too much is lost??? I have to make up my own mind what will work best for me, but I would like to know what you guys think.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-05-2007).]
You see well grasshopper. The deck wouldn't be completely flush but not as far in as my rough sketch suggests. I want the main body to be wide enough to have lots of elbow room inside, but obviously not wide enough for side-by-side seating. The deck would be a nice snug fit over the powertrain, so there should be a slight difference - probably somewhere between my sketch and the roadster pic you linked.
I also changed the shape to a slightly more boxy shape than the Ford, to be sure it doesn't look like a Ford T-bucket! The body would be significantly changed as well. I would shaved the door outlines and remove the upper lip. The top edge would be rolled over into the interior. The cowl would be completely replaced, so in the end there wouldn't be much similarity to a "Ferd".
I hope to add some more detail to the sketch today. If so, I will post new pics later.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-25-2007).]
For me personally, it's a little too "new" looking but I really wish someone else would be inspired to build their own Fiero street rod - with that body. I would like to see it built. It's hard for me to convey with sketches, and unfinished 3D models, but my goal is for my car to look really old. Even though people will be looking at a lot of modern technology I want it to just look like technology that was ahead of its time - kind of like the pyramids.
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Maybe I can convince them to sponsor me when it's all together...
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