I'm still far from done. I have to take the drivetrain back out and install the LSD. I'll do a writeup in here with pics. Also, The cradle original engine mount must be removed to clear the oil pan. The engine bay was cleaned and painted and battery tray removed. I have to remove a couple of the small brackets still, but my spot weld drill bit broke today. I hope Snap On has one on the truck tomorrow. Also, I still have to do the wiring for the fly by wire throttle. The way I am setting the engine up looks like the clutch should be able to be done in less than an hour. The engine isn't mounted to the cradle. I retained the factory engine mounts from the Jetta and tomorrow the brackets will be welded in permanently. This will allow the cradle to be taken out without having to mess with the mounts . The VW engine computer will be mounted where the Fiero computer was. A second harness will be made for the OBDII connector as well as the throttle. Custom axles will need to be made. I figure that I am going to spend the extra money now to handle the turbo later on. So, the axles won't be cheap. Dave
The small thin sheet metal brackets are easy to remove w/o a spot weld drill, just use some tin snips to cut them in half and grab them with some pilers and bend then around the spot weld and they will come right off. Then just hit what is left with the flapper disk and you are done.
I used the spot weld drill to remove the battery tray. I need it again to remove the upper dog bone mounting bracket. I'm not going to use it and it frees up some room to give a cleaner appearance. I'm so anal about things. The spot weld drill leaves a nice looking finish when the brackets are removed. I don't do anything half assed....not that trimming the brackets and grinding is half assed....I just don't like getting covered in metal filings. I had my share of metal filings when I put in my SBC in my other Fiero. Dave
I thought you were talking about the little strap/brackets for all the lines/hoses not the battery tray or dog bone mount - a spot weld drill helps a great deal with those.
I too dislike the dogbone bracket and have removed them on both of my 88's with swapped motors.
can you get a pic of how youre mounting the motor to the subframe? r u using vw mounts or new ones?
id do this swap if it was a kit, i dont have the time or the extra car to do this from scratch. deffinatly would use a 24v though, way better engine even though it uses rockers instead of buttons.
can you get a pic of how youre mounting the motor to the subframe? r u using vw mounts or new ones?
id do this swap if it was a kit, i dont have the time or the extra car to do this from scratch. deffinatly would use a 24v though, way better engine even though it uses rockers instead of buttons.
my next one will be a 24v R32. I figured I'd start easy and work my way up before dropping over $8000 for a used engine and trans. I'm not mounting the engine to the subframe...it is getting mounted to the space frame with a torsion link or dog bone to the subframe. The subframe is solidly mounted so there will be no flex to worry about . I am using modified VW mounts. I am doing the mods myself. I'll take photos of the mounts, but I may not have any progress until mid next week. I just had a Passat towed into my shop for a engine replacement that I need to get done...along with the tons of other work scheduled. Dave
Here are a few pics from today. I pulled the drivetrain back out to remove the battery tray. Also, the engine compartment was painted at this time. I'll touch it up after I remove the dog bone mount. There is also a pic of the engine temporarily installed for those that missed page two. The engine is back in as of the moment, but I figure it will be in and out about twenty times before it finally rests there. I want to make sure that it is able to be serviced while in the car. I also want it to be able to be modified in the future without having to do any cutting of the trunk or frame. Dave
I like where the intake comes out. Keeps it out of the way of the shift cables. As long as there is no battery in the stock location looks like it will work out great. Looks Keep up the nice work. Cant wait to hear it run.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 01-17-2008).]
I had an hour to play today. I mounted the cradle and did a final torque on the bolts. The suspension will be going back on next week. The engine and trans is out right now while I reinforce the mounting points. From here on out, the engine is goiing in and out through the top..with plenty of room to spare. I have Tuesday planned for the transmission teardown and inspection. If all passes my criteria, the Peloquin LSD will be going in. Today, I removed the dog bone mount and removed the front engine mount bracket from the cradle. Smoothed it so it looks like it was never there. I also had seven other cars to get done before 3pm today. That's it until Tuesday. Dave
Had some "alone-time" with the VW Fiero today, huh? I didn't hear about how the party went while Anonymity was out of town.
This is great stuff - and what's better is that nobody is giving you sh** for using that engine. When I asked about a non-GM swap my first month here, I thought I was going to be strung up! Of course, I was a noobie, too, so what do you expect.
Cheers, Dave!
BTW, if Anonymity is out of town, who was the blonde in this chick-in-the-engine-bay shot? (I guess I owe you another beer...)
Originally posted by Saxman: BTW, if Anonymity is out of town, who was the blonde in this chick-in-the-engine-bay shot? (I guess I owe you another beer...)
It's a good thing he likes you.
I just wanted to chime in guru, and say I think this is awesome. Good work.
-fh
[This message has been edited by fierohobby (edited 01-19-2008).]
I ran into a few problems. First, both of my laptops have fried out on me, so I can only access the internet from the shop. Time to get at least one of the laptops fixed. Second, I was about to install the Peloquin LSD and found issues with the transmission. I ordered another transmission this morning and should have it in a few days. Then the LSD will be installed into that one. In the meantime, I'm going to use this trans as a mock up, so I can still make some progress with the swap.
fifth gear must be pressed off to split the case.
pulling the syncro and gear.
case opened. You can see the bearing damaged. There were other damaged parts not shown here, but the cost of the parts was about $800. A used trans with 60,000 miles was $500.
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 01-24-2008).]
Just had to say something in this thread, so here goes... . . . . . SOMETHING!
Just kidding, Love you, Honey!
Ya know, the only thing that worries me more than Dave working on the VR6 engine swap.... . is Dave working on the VR6 engine swap when I'm NOT around.
The most crucial part of my swap arrived in the mail today.................... The Keychain.
I also was concidering the problems the ugly blue underdrive crankshaft pulley would create. It is a known fact. Blue pulleys lose .75% horsepower. Also, it is a fact that the Fiero has a rep for running a little hot. Slowing down the water pump to gain 3% horsepower is not good in my book. So, doing my research, I purchased a Gruvenparts non-underdrive billet aluminum crankshaft pulley. It weighs in at 500g. and costs $159.00 If I subtract the power steering and a/c compressor, I have my 3% back....not to mention that ugly blue crankshaft pulleys lose .75%, so I just created an advantage. Ok enough of the BS. Here is a pic.
Here is the latest update. I received the transmission and all looks well with it. I am waiting for the Peloquin LSD to arrive...should be any day now. In the meantime, I removed most of the needed wiring and gas pedal from the Jetta. It has all been laid out to see what needs to be shortened/lengthened/removed/added This is why it is good to get the whole car. I am also parting out the Jetta as I go and have just about broken even on the parts and LSD purchase....and there is a lot of Jetta left. I'm going to try and spend a few hours today playing with the Fiero. Dave
great work Dave.. ..I've been glued to this post ever since I stumbled onto it..... could the R32 engine and trans be used in a Fiero swap ....or would you have to use a Jetta trans..... assuming the bolt pattern on the 2.8 and 3.2 VR6's are indentical?
great work Dave.. ..I've been glued to this post ever since I stumbled onto it..... could the R32 engine and trans be used in a Fiero swap ....or would you have to use a Jetta trans..... assuming the bolt pattern on the 2.8 and 3.2 VR6's are indentical?
The R32 is the same setup, but with a six speed manual trans. That will be a future swap....maybe to replace my V8 Fiero. I haven't done much to the VR6 in the past week. I had another thread on O/T that was a rant thread. My head was ready to explode from the stupidity I had to endure lately. I also had to repair my third Fiero. It got Rodney's idler pulley, the Fiero Store's ABS headliner, and JStricker's aluminum cradle bushings. I'll be back on the VR6 next week when my head is clear again. Too much customer's work lately and not enough time during the day. Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-07-2008).]
thanks for the update.......you have the best swap yet IMO.....don't let them get to you.....there are more important things that need your attention ...like a Fiero in dire need of a VR6......
I am wondering, The bolt patterns are the same so if you were to put the VW struts in the fiero (don't have any idea if this could work) are VW brake upgrades better then those for a fiero?
For you, the axle spindle splines would then match your stock VW axles and maybe the width would also be ok. For me, I have an 84 fiero with 14" pace car rims so the best brakes I can get are grand-am brakes but maybe VW upgrades for a 14" rim are better then the grand am brakes that I now have.
The next possibility for improvement for any overpowered fiero launching on slicks is that under severe amounts of load the tie rods buck the frame mounts hard enough to flex the cradle and strut rods. So are the VW strut rods a larger diameter then the fieros? and is the (tie rod connection) arm on the VW spindle longer for more leverage then the fiero spindle arm so that the bucking force would be reduced so as to put less stress on everything, reduce flexing and eliminate wheel hop?
[This message has been edited by big block fiero (edited 02-12-2008).]
I have made some progress to the swap. I replaced the radiator, installed the Peloquin LSD in the second transmission, and changed out the fuel pump to a Warlbro pump. I've made about four sets of mounts, but I am really not happy with them, so I plan on making a 5th set. The other sets are a little too complicated or too simple...not quite right....and I am a perfectionist. I really don't care if I have to try ten more times to get it the way I want it. Once I get it just right, I'm going to make some templates for future mounts...possibly removing my V8 and dropping in a R32?????.....turbo I've also been busy getting my gold GT ready....new headliner, radio, differential side bearings, aluminum cradle bushings, alignment, stuff like that. My life has been a revolution of Fieros lately. I'm planning on working late on the mounts tomorrow night. I really can hardly wait to get to the wiring...and hear it run. Dave as for the VW suspension....I thought about it, but I'm using the GM suspension. The VW struts suck....that's the best way to put it. They are too soft and the mounts always loosen up every 20k. The lower control arms are very easy to bend and axles are lightweight. I'm getting race axles made at the driveshaft shop. Hopefully good for 600whp. Always plan for the future. ------------------ 1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (wife's toy), 1986 SE soon to be VR6, certified master technician/shop owner www.njautobahn.com
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-12-2008).]
I have made some progress to the swap. I replaced the radiator, installed the Peloquin LSD in the second transmission, and changed out the fuel pump to a Warlbro pump. I've made about four sets of mounts, but I am really not happy with them, so I plan on making a 5th set. The other sets are a little too complicated or too simple...not quite right....and I am a perfectionist. I really don't care if I have to try ten more times to get it the way I want it. Once I get it just right, I'm going to make some templates for future mounts...possibly removing my V8 and dropping in a R32?????.....turbo I've also been busy getting my gold GT ready....new headliner, radio, differential side bearings, aluminum cradle bushings, alignment, stuff like that. My life has been a revolution of Fieros lately. I'm planning on working late on the mounts tomorrow night. I really can hardly wait to get to the wiring...and hear it run. Dave as for the VW suspension....I thought about it, but I'm using the GM suspension. The VW struts suck....that's the best way to put it. They are too soft and the mounts always loosen up every 20k. The lower control arms are very easy to bend and axles are lightweight. I'm getting race axles made at the driveshaft shop. Hopefully good for 600whp. Always plan for the future.
ok enuff already... nobody cares about the sh!t you're going through..... they just want to know if YOU can actually complete it......
when can I finally have my car back!!!! you always take the gold one to work.... yours is at the body shop..... and mine is STUCK on the lift..... wine... wine ...b!tch ...moan ..... FINE, i'll drive my honda and you'll just have to keep fixin what I break!!!
Originally posted by anonymity: ok enuff already... nobody cares about the sh!t you're going through..... they just want to know if YOU can actually complete it...... when can I finally have my car back!!!! you always take the gold one to work.... yours is at the body shop..... and mine is STUCK on the lift..... wine... wine ...b!tch ...moan ..... FINE, i'll drive my honda and you'll just have to keep fixin what I break!!! (hehehehe, whatcha gonna say now!)
When you run the R32 trans, what are you going to do with that extra rear driveshaft stuff that feeds the rear wheels? PTO?
I suppose you could hook up a brush mower or a nice 10kW generator for when power goes out or something...
The VW R32 is a pretty common swap for the VR6 GTI. I haven't planned it all out yet, but before I do any swap about six months of planning goes into it before the actual swap takes place. I imagine if I were to do the R32 swap, I would use a 2004 engine with a six speed transmission from a GTI FWD. Let me get through this one before I try to go crazy with these things. A TDI swap is next on the drawing board. Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-13-2008).]
The VW R32 is a pretty common swap for the VR6 GTI. I haven't planned it all out yet, but before I do any swap about six months of planning goes into it before the actual swap takes place. I imagine if I were to do the R32 swap, I would use a 2004 engine with a six speed transmission from a GTI FWD. Let me get through this one before I try to go crazy with these things. A TDI swap is next on the drawing board. Dave
yes, honey, ONE... that's ONE project at a time.... Of course you could let me finish them..... but you probably wouldn't like that, huh.
(gathers C-4, dynamite, and fuse) Here honey let me help!!!
any particular reason for the 2004 engine....would 2003-2008 R32 engines work?
2004 was the only MK4 R32. They reissued the R32 in 2008. The R32 used a 3.2 liter VR6. The standard VR6 I am using in this swap is 2.8 liters. You can get the VR6 3.2 in the A3, Touareg, TT, etc.....but they use a different engine than the R32. The R32 uses a BJS engine and the rest use a BHE, BAA, BMX etc. Anyway, let's cross one bridge at a time. Dave
ok thanks......I re-read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VW_R32 .....2004 & 2008 ......sorry about the mix up.........what are the pros and cons of swapping either the Mark IV or Mark V R32 engine into a Fiero other then the 10 extra hp in the 2008?...thanks....Jay
ok thanks......I re-read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VW_R32 .....2004 & 2008 ......sorry about the mix up.........what are the pros and cons of swapping either the Mark IV or Mark V R32 engine into a Fiero other then the 10 extra hp in the 2008?...thanks....Jay
The R32 engines are not cheap or easy to come by. This current swap when it is all said and done will make approx 600whp. If all goes well, I'll be bringing it out to Carlisle this year, but the turbo won't be on by then. Obviously, it won't be 600whp at that time. I will list the mods done to the VR6 and it will be run on a dyno with a stock Jetta of the same year/engine/trans combo. After the summer, the turbo mod will take place and then I'll be able to possibly keep up with FieroX. Dave
ok, I'm home after a nice 14 hour day (four hours spent with the Fiero). I completely changed the original plans for the mounts. Using the OE VW mounts on the space frame of the Fiero just wasn't working for me. It worked, but I really wasn't happy with the outcome. So, I decided to try and just make a few sets to mount the drivetrain to the cradle. I have two of the mounts completed....I just need to paint them. I made templates for future mounts to make it easier for next time. By the end of the week, I should have the engine mounted to the cradle for the final time. Thus far, no notching of the frame or engine compartment has needed to be done. I removed the dogbone mount for a nicer looking compartment. I'll post pics prior to installing the engine. The transmission is all back together and ready for abuse. Here is a link to the supplier of the differential. I'm hoping this makes a huge difference in the characteristics of the car. http://www.mjmautohaus.com/...spd&products_id=1029 Here is a pic of the transmission ready to go back in.
Out of curiosity, are those CV shaft flanges bolted (or otherwise positively secured) to the diff, or are they a snap ring style, like the Fiero?
Edit to add:
This is a very cool swap, and I hope you inspire more people to think outside the box when it comes to swap ideas. It seems like everyone who swaps uses one of the same few engines, and while they are definitely upgrades, it just seems repetitive to do a swap that's already been done numerous times.
[This message has been edited by FieroJimmy (edited 02-14-2008).]
Keep up the nice work. Cant wait to hear it run.
