Now if the W-12 would fit in a Fiero engine bay?.... :dreaming:
Dave, don't burn yourself out. You're doing a great service to the Fiero, BMW, MINI, etc. community. But you'll be much more fun with your sanity intact.
I was able to spend a few hours with the swap tonight and have made some progress. Here is a video taken after I finished up tonight. It was taken with a cell phone and it was pretty dark outside, but the point hopefully came across. Dave
I was able to spend a few hours with the swap tonight and have made some progress. Here is a video taken after I finished up tonight. It was taken with a cell phone and it was pretty dark outside, but the point hopefully came across. Dave
I'm planning on posting up a daytime video soon, but I have to wait until Joey is aound. She says it is her car and I have no rights spinning the tires. I took the last few days off to relax and I closed the shop tomorrow to play hookey and go to Six Flags. If the customers can't understand I need a day off here and there, they can kiss my ass. The car does sound nice....very Ferrarish. The real exhaust will be getting done soon. Right now it is just a cat....soon to be no cat and just a Magnaflow. Dave
I'm planning on posting up a daytime video soon, but I have to wait until Joey is aound. She says it is her car and I have no rights spinning the tires. I took the last few days off to relax and I closed the shop tomorrow to play hookey and go to Six Flags. If the customers can't understand I need a day off here and there, they can kiss my ass. The car does sound nice....very Ferrarish. The real exhaust will be getting done soon. Right now it is just a cat....soon to be no cat and just a Magnaflow. Dave
Dave: By putting a Volkswagon engine in a Fiero I've got to hand it to ya.; you did a swap that no other Fiero owner has done , As far as I am aware, you have the only VW engine thats in a Fiero but a while back there was a picture I believe of a BMW engine swap that was done in Europe. IMO the choice of a VW engine is quite unusual as to my knowledge there is not much support in the way of tuning software for that mill. As for the time off- take it!!! You only live once you know!
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I'm not too worried about any aftermarket mods. There are plenty of good tuning software out there. I'm running GIAC with Evap, sec air and cat delete. The 02J transmission has the Peloquin LSD and there are more gear ratio options for all the gears including reverse available. There are more camshaft grind options for the VR6 than there are for the SBC....well maybe not that many . I went with this swap because it was what I know. I started with a L36 and wanted to turbo it and I really couldn't see myself doing a swap that I had no clue about. My SBC uses four Webers...I am familiar with the Webers from my customers classic Porsches and VW's. The 3800t would have been easier and faster, but if it broke, I'd be at someone else's mercy for help diagnosing it. . . . Anyway, shop's closed today and Joey, myself and the crew are going to Six Flags. Dave
I have a bmw i could fab a swap for the m20 turbo engine that it has. but i just dont think and inline 6 would fit without cutting and lengthing the car its self
------------------ 1985 Fiero SE-4 notch back 5-speed 1986 Fiero GT Fastback Auto 1986 Fiero GT Fastback Auto (yes i have 2 production #6 away from eachother) (Other Rides) 1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 mods and more mods 1987 Bmw E-30 bored 2.9L Turbo 5-Lug swap
The M20 probably wouldn't fit without frame stretching. I thought about running a M or S52 using a 325xi oil pan and making a direct drive transfer case, but I don't think it would really be worth the effort. My next swap will probably be the W8 or a TDI. I have quite a few hours left in this swap, though. Just when I think I am coming to a close, I think of more cool sh*t that I can do to it and it keeps going. I have a feeling that this car will be nicer than my orange and black one....which may get the four carbed V8 swapped out for a R32 VR6. Dave
I'm planning on posting up a daytime video soon, but I have to wait until Joey is aound. She says it is her car and I have no rights spinning the tires. Dave
i did not say it is my car, YOU said it is my car....all this time you were telling everyone that you were doing this swap for me..... i watched the video, you said you barely brought it out of the shop you lying SOB! You can go ahead and keep the damn car, I'm happy with my Honda that you hate fixing.
i did not say it is my car, YOU said it is my car....all this time you were telling everyone that you were doing this swap for me..... i watched the video, you said you barely brought it out of the shop you lying SOB! You can go ahead and keep the damn car, I'm happy with my Honda that you hate fixing.
i did not say it is my car, YOU said it is my car....all this time you were telling everyone that you were doing this swap for me..... i watched the video, you said you barely brought it out of the shop you lying SOB! You can go ahead and keep the damn car, I'm happy with my Honda that you hate fixing.
Joey
Ouch! even the "World's Most Coolest Wife" can have an off day, I guess. Anyway, What I meant to say before was....Joey says it is her car and she should be the one spinning the tires. I was merely testing the proper disengagement and engagement of the clutch. The full test drive will be done by the owner once the preliminary testing has been completed and passed my standards. Whew, I hope my stuff isn't on the front lawn. Dave
the w8 wasnt exactly the greatest thing made, its a cool idea but annoying to work on. it may work better with standalone though. it is also very wide, i think youd have to move the subframe back. if you really wanted to the 30v v6 or the 40v v8 would be awsome since theyre both 60 degrees and might fit nicely though probably not to a vw transaxle. another thing to think about are the new 3.6 'v6' engines they have, basicly its a vr6 with pistons only 10.5 degrees apart not 15 degrees making 280hp with gas milage in mind, much more with a performance tune. not to mention that it makes an 08 passat dsg run 14.5s so in a fiero that should be insane. the r32 only runs 14.7 and the gti runs 14.9(6spd man), why they decided the passat should be fastest is beyond me.
if anything the tdi swap should be the easiest swap since theres really nothing to it at all. if a vr6 can go in the fiero then the same mounts can be used for the tdi(when using an mk4 tdi engine) the same trans can be used as well so that allows you to use the 6spd vw trans. its also stupid easy(and cheap) to get over 200hp to the wheels(using vw parts) with one and still get 45-50 mpg. im working on one for a guy where we dropped the turbo and fabbed a centrifugal blower to it. no exhast restriction, minimal belt drag, much more hp. ill probably use a similar setup in my fiero so long as i can just buy swap motor mounts.
despite the vr6 being a perfect fit for a fiero i just can overlook the simplicity, durability, and less weight of the AHU engine especially since they can make just as much or more power than the vr6 unless its supercharged. plus if it gets 45 mpg in a 3500 lbs jetta who knows how much itll get in a fiero.
The W8 is a wide engine, but I would probably install it longitudal and not transverse. They are a real pain in the ass to work on. The first time I replaced an alternator I was ripping my hair out. Then again, an alternator job on a VR6 isn't easy either...except in my Fiero. It looks like a 15 minute job. The Audi V6s are too wide as well. I'm just planning my next swap...nothing set in stone yet. I do like the new VR6 3.6l. It is sexy. After this swap, I'll probably want to take a year off of any swaps and just enjoy driving my Fieros. Dave
if you think that your fab work on the vr6 will allow you to get a 20v or tdi motor in lemme know i wouldnt mind keeping your info on file for a next year project. not to sure where my soon to be wife will get stationed after she graduates(army) but chances are decent we'll stay in virginia. i kinda wanna just piss the vw dorks off at waterfest and bugout and a tdi fiero would be the ultimate bastard child.
on the vr6, with it in a fiero are the crack pipes and serp belts still a joy to work with or is it all around much easier to work on?
o and remember the 3.6 is called a v6 now, sure it looks like a vr6, sounds like one, and has only one cylinder head but hey, who are we to question wolfsberg
[This message has been edited by megafreakindeth (edited 08-05-2008).]
No, the VW rims were sold to help pay for the mods to this drivetrain. They do fit, though. I have the Fiero GT rims on the Jetta right now and it doesn't look that bad. The 1.8t & 1.9TDI looks like it would be an easier swap, and is definitely on the back of my mind now that I know what needs to be done to get it in the car and functional. The crackpipe (solid cooling pipe under intake for you non-V-Dubbers) is pretty easy to get at now, but I don't have an air pump, power steering pump or a/c compressor. The belt is a two minute job...there is about six inches between the belt and the frame rail. That makes the water pump a 30 minute job. Even the intake manifold is pretty easily removed. When I made the front lower engine mount, I had to remake it three or four times because I couldn't get the starter out without removing the mount. The final design allows the starter to be easily removed. Also, amazingly the alternator is not a mess to remove if needed. I used all new accessories like alternator, starter, water pump, etc so that I would be good for a while. Right now the gas tank is out of the car because I needed to do some welding to the shifter mounting bracket and needed to get to it from under the car to weld in new studs. At the rate I am going, I probably won't even be looking at the car again until this weekend at the earliest due to my shop's workload. I can't complain. Last year we were a lot slower than usual and this year we're making up for that. If anyone is ever in the central NJ area and would like to see the project, feel free to stop by my shop and check it out. Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-06-2008).]
If you wanted to use A/C (and maybe PS) would it still fit? (I know you don't want to for this swap, but it would be interesting if it were possible.)
Could you post some pics of the swap and shifter mount? (and more pics in general of the whole project. :P) We're in Cali are dying to find out how this awesome project goes.
The a/c is possible, but a non-vr6 compressor would have to be used. The VR6 compressor spins counter-clockwise. That is why the belt is ribbed on both sides. I'll post some pics as soon as I get it back together and after Joey does her first burn out. The function of this car was to see how much hp a VR6 can make in a Fiero....so once the initial testing is done, the motor will be pulled and a built up, low compression engine (done with pistons and not a thicker head gasket) will be installed with a twin scroll turbo. Dave
The a/c is possible, but a non-vr6 compressor would have to be used. The VR6 compressor spins counter-clockwise. That is why the belt is ribbed on both sides. I'll post some pics as soon as I get it back together and after Joey does her first burn out. The function of this car was to see how much hp a VR6 can make in a Fiero....so once the initial testing is done, the motor will be pulled and a built up, low compression engine (done with pistons and not a thicker head gasket) will be installed with a twin scroll turbo. Dave
what the hell do ya think your doing to the damn car now!!! Why don't ya leave it alone for now, see what it does, then down the road (like years not months) play around with different options, Damn, you ain't finished with it as is, and you already wanna change sh!t!
Megafreakindeth, I think the TDI, even though it *can* make as much power as the VR6, *may* not be as good a choice, because of the density of the Fiero spaceframe---these cars are HEAVY for their size (my Formula weighed within 300 lbs of the Eldorado the 4.9 came out of) and the VR6 should provide more low end torque to move the car, even before any massaging on the motor is done, although the TDI's grunt down low is impressive, considering its displacement. And of course, as a matter of taste, I think it's gonna be nice to see a 6-cylinder Fiero whose motor revs another couple of grand above what the GM 2.8 was capable of; anyone who's ever heard a performance-prepped VR6 run, will know what I mean...sweeet! BUT, there is something to be said for a motor capable of 45-50 mpg while burning a fuel (biodiesel) that smells like french fries, lol...(People forget that Otto Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil.)...
------------------ '88 Formula - 4.9 conversion by The Fiero Factory
I finally got the chance to put together another order of parts for this swap today. I got some mandrel bent exhaust pipe, weld in bungs, Magnaflow mufflers, and some goodies for my V8 Fiero and a few upgrades for my gold GT. So hopefully I'll be able to post a video without the funny looking exhaust that is on the car now...and a much sweeter sound. The only part that I didn't get was the exhaust tips. I have a unique set in mind, but they are over $300 for just the tips (knock offs of the OE tips I want). The OE tips list at the dealership for $424 per side....OUCH! I might have to agree with my wife and let her enjoy the car before I start making it really fast. I think I really would be happy with a fun to drive, high revving car that will take out most production cars from a stop light. That was the goal of my V8 Fiero...just a fun car to drive that is loud and decently quick. Looking into the possibilities of this swap, we may have just opened a door for other VW swaps in the future...maybe a 1.8t with a K04 and GIAC, a TDI swap, a W8, or we can start playing with the new 2.0t or the 2.5 5 cylinder. Time to step into tomorrow. Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-08-2008).]
I'd also vote for a DI (direct injected), or better yet, a FSI *hint, hint* ^_^ engine.
I think you should wait a few years though and let technology catch up to your talent.
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru: ... I think I really would be happy with a fun to drive, high revving car that will take out most production cars from a stop light. That was the goal of my V8 Fiero...just a fun car to drive that is loud and decently quick. ...
What is the stock redline of a Vr-6 anyways? :curious:
quote
Originally posted by Vonov: ... I think it's gonna be nice to see a 6-cylinder Fiero whose motor revs another couple of grand above what the GM 2.8 was capable of; anyone who's ever heard a performance-prepped VR6 run, will know what I mean...sweeet! ...
What's the improved redline? How do you do that? (short simple version pls. )
I would love one of the new Audi or Honda type engines with a 8500rpm redline. Especially with the sound of an Audi R8.
The VR6 in my opinion is one of the best designed engines. I originally was thinking of fitting the VR5 which is a 2.3 liter euro spec passat engine, but they really don't make the power. They are more for a commuter with a little pep. The cool part about the VR6 is it will build power low and with the variable intake manifold, it will just keep pulling up to the redline. You really have to drive one of these VW's to really understand why I went through all this to do what a 3800s/c could do. I think my car will be more of a fun driver...in my opinion. I can't remember the redline, I'll have to look when I get to the shop tomorrow. Tomorrow evening, I'll hopefully be able to have some more progress. It seems I'll get a few hours in each week. The little brown truck should be dropping off the mandrel bent exhaust pipes and mufflers. Dave
I'd also vote for a DI (direct injected), or better yet, a FSI *hint, hint* ^_^ engine.
The audi 2.0t is a really nice engine and would give the Fiero a whole new personality. I don't understand how the Audi 2.7t made a list a few years in a row. That engine is useless and in stock form doesn't impress the elderly. Dave
This is one of the most interesting build threads to read. I'm blown away with the amount of engineering and designing you've done. Your skills are unequaled. I wish you were closer so I could see the car in person. Maybe next year when I visit my aunt in (Bogota) NJ, I'll stop by. Good job and Great work. Congrats Man!
BTW, I have VW wheels on my Fiero. They fit great!
Thanks for the compliments. I hope I can get my head in my shop through the garage door now. My tech Shawn came up with a great idea for the exhaust and so we are in the stage of making that right now. I'm not going to say anything, but hopefully soon enough, I'll post some pics up. In my mind, the idea is an amazing one that I haven't seen done before with the exhaust and can be done on the stock engine. I think you all might love it as much as I think I will. I did wind up purchasing the tips I had mentioned and I should have them on Monday. I couldn't resist and I did start the VR6 up with the Magnaflow true dual exhaust and it does sound deep and mean. Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-17-2008).]
Originally posted by anonymity: Kissbutt! You're just hoping for a ride in the VR6. I thought the ride in Dave's Gay Orange Fiero was enough for ya. Joey
For someone who is scared to ride in the "Gay Orange Fiero" you seem to have a lot to say. You sure you won't be scared of the VR6 as well?
[This message has been edited by Sixstrings (edited 08-20-2008).]
