I am playing around with designing my own dropped spindles for the 88 and curious how they handled the upper ball joint area as it ends up going some what behind the wheel bearing. Still torn on the bearing to use... I could design them to keep the wheel flange with the right offset with the rear wheel bearing, then clock the bolt pattern on the upright to use the 88 front bearing with a supplied spacer... go with a larger overall bearing in the 115 or 4 1/2 or 4 3/4 pattern, however the larger the bearing is, the more the upper ball joint is behind it.
Well, I got the front end apart, swapped in the black Prothane Poly Bushings with the special grease squishing out everywhere... I also replaced the sway-bar bushings with the black poly too. The upper and lower Ball Joints were replaced with Rodney's stock replacements. I picked up Rodney's zero lash end links for the front sway-bar and after I get the knuckle situation sorted out I'll be installing those too. The HT knuckles look gorgeous out of the box but this particular set has a weird anomaly, the tie-rod tapers are upside down. Either these are for a different but similar type of car or they just got welded on with the wide part of the taper on top and the skinny part on the bottom. I'll get with Richard at HT and see if he won't swap me for a pair that are in the correct orientation. So for now, I'll be putting the stock knuckles back on the car and move it out of the way while I wait for shipping to take place...
The drop spindles are on their way back to HT and they have been very nice and apologetic about the mix up. If all goes well They should be mounted in a week or two and all the front end nutz and boltz torqued to their correct values.
It's nice to see a company that takes ownership in the quality of its products when things go wrong.
yea, except things "go wrong" with them a lot. I ordered a bunch of parts from them and i'm stll "working it out" with Richard. I wish their quality control was better. I sure hope my dropped spindles are correct. I'll break them out of the box tomorrow and check.
I ordered the tubular UCA/LCA w/ QA1 coilover and the dropped spindles, and 13" brake kit. Mine was also PC in the silver. Love the pics of the assembled front end.
Rob
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 06-21-2012).]
Richard knew what I was talking about when I was describing the issues I had and I feel confident that the replacements will work fine. They should arrive on Wednesday so it wont be long before I can try them out.
HOLY CRAP!!!!!! I think mine are the same as yours. when I put mine in the same position as you show yours, the hole is larger on top, and smaller on the bottom, and this is wrong...... right?
SOB, now I have to have them fix this too. Control Arms, Brake rotors, missing parts and now this. NOT HAPPY.
So glad I saw this post, and checked before I took the front end apart.
HOLY CRAP!!!!!! I think mine are the same as yours. when I put mine in the same position as you show yours, the hole is larger on top, and smaller on the bottom, and this is wrong...... right?
SOB, now I have to have them fix this too. Control Arms, Brake rotors, missing parts and now this. NOT HAPPY.
So glad I saw this post, and checked before I took the front end apart.
Rob
I'm sorry Rob but yes that's incorrect and you'll need to have them replaced...
Yea, confirmed it today. Took them over to a buddy who has a set and he got his set last year. They are the same except that the steering ball joint taper's are 180 out from each other. I will send Richard some pics on Monday and see how long it will take to get the new ones.
Richard at HT was very helpful and sent the replacement drop spindles out the same day as my returns showed up at his shop. The replacements looked great and there was only one small issue that was easily remedied with getting the passenger side tie-rod tapered stud secured. As mentioned earlier I purchased Rodney's "Zero Lash sway-bar end links" (a thing of beauty they are...) and once I had them mounted I found several clearance issues. Because Rodney's end links are designed for stock steering knuckles and not for HT's drop spindles they were too short by just over an inch. Luckily I figured this out before installing the wheels. At full extension and with the end links providing 5" of separation between the LCA and the swing arm, the steering arm of the HT knuckle is at the same height as the ball joint of the zero lash end link. This interference causes a loss of just over a 1/4 turn of steering wheel rotation from the normal stop. Another issue was that the sway-bar was low enough to interfere with the tie-rod (again with the suspension in full extension) also causing less turn radius. By extending the zero lash end links by 1 and 3/16" both issues will no longer be a problem. There will likely still be a very minor contact of the knuckle steering arm and the rod of the end link just as the wheel is turned to its limit. With the sway-bar raised it will no longer come into contact with the tie-rod... I took both front springs out and spent about an hour running the suspension up and down checking for other possible issues but found none. I also took the time to relocate the brake line clamps on the UCA to reduce stresses. Using the dog-bone shaped 12" brake adapters with the HT drop spindles takes every mm of available stock flexible brake line, especially on the passenger side. Using the offset 12" brake adapters like Blooz did on his car raises the caliper and I suspect allows using the stock brake line clamp position on the UCA.
Charlie
HT 1.5" drop spindle installed (note that the sway-bar end links are not installed yet...)
Picture after I removed the springs and was checking for any other interference.
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-01-2012).]
Rodney was willing to make me zero-lash swaybar endlinks any length I needed but as it turned out he happened to have just the right length already made up. I received them Saturday but just now got the time and a willingness to work in the garage when it is 114 outside... The great news is that extending the links from 5" to 6 and 3/16" was enough to take care of both interference issues I was having at full extension of the front suspension. Now, just as I reach full steering rack limit, the steering arm of the knuckle just touches the swaybar endlink and since this only happens at max travel I don't think it will ever create any issues while driving. The longer endlinks also raised the swaybar high enough above the tierod that there is no longer any chance of interference there either. So, it took a couple of tries to get it right but at this point it looks like the 1.5" HT drop spindles will be quite the success. (crossing fingers...) While I had the springs out checking clearances, I fully compressed each side with the wheels mounted and the top of the tire to the top of the wheel well was approximately 1". Keeping in mind that I accidentally ordered tires that ended up being about 1/2" less diameter than stock this all appears to have worked out very well. The back is slightly higher than the front now so a little adjusting of the coil-over setup will be necessary to level it all out... I ended up having to find another forward roof panel as the original one ended up cracking at the usual spot near the top of the driver's side A-pillar. I was very fortunate in that I sourced another roof panel and was only charged $12.93 for it. (they priced it the same as a headliner at the pick-n-pull yard... sweet!) It had a surface crack at the top of the A-pillar on each side but the cracks were not structural like it was on my original roof. I used SMC Panel Adhesive an some cut up fiberglass to repair 4 different spots and this "new" roof panel is ready for epoxy and feather fill primer.
The pics below are of the endlinks and the clearance issues that are fixed...
The original 5" endlinks vs the 6 and 3/16" endlinks
No interference between the swaybar and tierod anymore... (including the dust boot)
Installed 6 and 3/16" zero-lash swaybar endlink (by Rodney Dickman)
Knuckle steering arm just touches the endlink at full travel and full extension... (as the suspension raises, the clearance quickly gets bigger)
Another shot of the knuckle steering arm vs the swaybar endlink
The painter told me that he wants to wait until October to paint the body parts because of the hot temps... He is hoping to get a better paint job by painting when it is 90 degrees or less.. I cant blame him and since he is doing it for cost, I won't complain... Lol.
Would you believe it got pushed back to November? All parts are sanded and primed but will need a final touch up before paint. If it gets pushed back any further I may have to get out my wallet....
Forget your wallet Charlie, you have to be worried about snow tires by the time November rolls around. Hey, I was there in March when Sedona got 6" of the white stuff, so it's possible! I can set you up with a good pair of Blizzaks to get you home if you need.
Forget your wallet Charlie, you have to be worried about snow tires by the time November rolls around. Hey, I was there in March when Sedona got 6" of the white stuff, so it's possible! I can set you up with a good pair of Blizzaks to get you home if you need.
latest update. I should know on Thursday if we can at least get the rear clip and the roof painted next week. That way I can get started on putting some clothes back on the car.
Charlie
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 11-27-2012).]
I was at the paint shop sanding feverishly on the rear clip and roof sections today. They should be painted by tomorrow afternoon. I was going to get the rear deck lid done too but I found that it was not completely prepped yet. I'll be trying to get it ready but i'm doubtful I can get it done in time. Unfortunately we won't get it all painted this week but at least I can get the roof on and a windshield installed in the meantime.
I agree Bob! I am excited to see this thing creeping closer to getting done...
The first two pictures are of the painted rear fastback clip and the roof section sitting on the car. The third is of the hood that I found still needed just a little more filler...
Lookin good there Charlie! I must admit I don't recall seeing any body panels when I visited you in March. It was a surprise for me to see these latest pictures with the white panels... looks good and will be cooler under the Phoenix sun. Maybe I missed it, but is it a pure white or does it have pearls or metal flake in it?
I found an aurora in a pick apart yard today with the drivetrain virtually untouched. I can get it all for like $300, but is it worth it? I'm going to go see if it runs tomorrow. This looks like a great swap. How hard is the wiring harness to run? Does it need to be custom made, like the 3800 swap? The mounts look very good too. Have you got yours in and running yet? I skimmed the 20 pages. It looks nice!
Lookin good there Charlie! I must admit I don't recall seeing any body panels when I visited you in March. It was a surprise for me to see these latest pictures with the white panels... looks good and will be cooler under the Phoenix sun. Maybe I missed it, but is it a pure white or does it have pearls or metal flake in it?
Thank you Dave!
All the panels were here in March but they were stashed all over the property. The paint is a single stage urethane (I hope I said that correctly) and the color is supposed to be the same as the white used on the stock 1988 Fiero. If I am lucky, we will get the rest painted in the next couple of months...
I found an aurora in a pick apart yard today with the drivetrain virtually untouched. I can get it all for like $300, but is it worth it? I'm going to go see if it runs tomorrow. This looks like a great swap. How hard is the wiring harness to run? Does it need to be custom made, like the 3800 swap? The mounts look very good too. Have you got yours in and running yet? I skimmed the 20 pages. It looks nice!
Thank you Mitch,
I used the Holley 950 commander and a prefabbed wire harness from chrfab.com. I still had to do a lot of splicing to shorten the wires to the correct length. It was pretty time consuming but eventually you get it done. It was definitely not plug and play... That was several years ago. Now there are much better after market computers available and I suspect there may now be people who can hack the stock Aurora computer so it will run the Aurora motor in a Fiero.
My motor runs. But, it is not tuned yet and with the Holley 950, that can be a real pita. I would suggest getting one of the newer computers that have "self tuning" capabilities.
I found an aurora in a pick apart yard today with the drivetrain virtually untouched. I can get it all for like $300, but is it worth it? I'm going to go see if it runs tomorrow. This looks like a great swap. How hard is the wiring harness to run? Does it need to be custom made, like the 3800 swap? The mounts look very good too. Have you got yours in and running yet? I skimmed the 20 pages. It looks nice! Thank you Mitch,
I used the Holley 950 commander and a prefabbed wire harness from chrfab.com. I still had to do a lot of splicing to shorten the wires to the correct length. It was pretty time consuming but eventually you get it done. It was definitely not plug and play... That was several years ago. Now there are much better after market computers available and I suspect there may now be people who can hack the stock Aurora computer so it will run the Aurora motor in a Fiero.
My motor runs. But, it is not tuned yet and with the Holley 950, that can be a real pita. I would suggest getting one of the newer computers that have "self tuning" capabilities.
Charlie
Mine's running on the stock computer (no mods). Not throwing any codes, but it's not driveable yet, either. My plans are to add the body controller at a future date. And yes, hopefully someone cracks (or cracked) the darned thing.
Bob
[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 12-10-2012).]
I'm not sure if you were aware that there was a fellow that created an independent program to self-tune the Holley 950 (the one you have). I'm not sure if he's still selling the program since the new Holley 950 has the built in self tuning software. The program was dirt cheap(I think I paid $15 for it in May 2011) and worked well according to those that have used it. I haven't used it yet as I've been running on the LS1 computer with the Shelby program though I have bugs still to work out.
The program is called: Pro 950 Auto tune software. The guy that created it is named Tom and his email address is/was: tomzeect@netscape.net It runs on Windows 2000, XP and Vista.
Westers up in Canada has the Aurora running on the stock GM computers.
I'm not sure if you were aware that there was a fellow that created an independent program to self-tune the Holley 950 (the one you have). I'm not sure if he's still selling the program since the new Holley 950 has the built in self tuning software. The program was dirt cheap(I think I paid $15 for it in May 2011) and worked well according to those that have used it. I haven't used it yet as I've been running on the LS1 computer with the Shelby program though I have bugs still to work out.
The program is called: Pro 950 Auto tune software. The guy that created it is named Tom and his email address is/was: tomzeect@netscape.net It runs on Windows 2000, XP and Vista.
Westers up in Canada has the Aurora running on the stock GM computers.
Thank you,
I have looked into at least 2 different self-tuner programs for the H950 and I may have actually paid the $15. It was several years ago so I will have to email Tom and see if it was his program I bought... Now that I have a new laptop I may give it a try once I get the body on...
Thanks guys, I chose white because of the summer heat but I think I will like it. I am not sure what I will do when its done Bob. I hope it is reasonably reliable... lol
Charlie
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-27-2013).]
Do you have flex couplings between the pipes hung from the powertrain and the mufflers mounted to the body?
Hi Will, i was advised against using the traditional flex coupling because they apparently fatigue rather quickly. (What I was told by a reputable exhaust and performance car builder). It was suggested that I use the ball and socket system so I had an exhaust shop swedge some pieces of pipe with ball ends and then I custom made the rest. The flex joints I made for each side are shown in the pictures below.
Charlie
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-29-2013).]
Knew you had to have something. Interesting that he thinks they fatigue quickly. My G/F's 2002 Audi A6 has flex couplings in the exhaust from the factory. I suspect they're fine when used within their limits.
I have one on my Northstar's X-pipe exhaust, but the only motion it sees is differential expansion between the exhaust pipes and the engine block. I'll see how long it lasts.
Knew you had to have something. Interesting that he thinks they fatigue quickly. My G/F's 2002 Audi A6 has flex couplings in the exhaust from the factory. I suspect they're fine when used within their limits.
I have one on my Northstar's X-pipe exhaust, but the only motion it sees is differential expansion between the exhaust pipes and the engine block. I'll see how long it lasts.
My guess is that I probably mentioned that I expect the possibility of pretty large deviations considering the position of the pipes, their distance from center line and the limited amount of space available to install any sort of flexible joint. In normal applications I assume the conventional flex joint with braided steel around it is more than enough.
Charlie
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-30-2013).]
I'm finding that the hard part is figuring out where all the parts go after having this thing apart so long. I got the rear clip bolted down finally and I am waiting on one part before I can "glue" the roof panel down with butyl rope. I managed to push the rear clip back about 1/8" inch which allows me to do the same with the door panels. This was required because of the way the door hinges work. I was able to mock up the body parts and for the most part it looks pretty good for a Fiero. I found that I need to lower the left muffler about 1/4" to match the right. That way they should look pretty even from the rear. I need to fix the normal crack in the door skin just above the mirror cutout, sand the hood and a couple other little odds and ends and then it should be nearly done. The A/C will likely wait until I am sure it is drivable and I don't think I'll need to drop the cradle for anything else. I bought new door glass and if they look good, I'll install those too before putting the skins on for good. Here she sits, almost looking like a car...
Since the yearly training for work is finally over I can get back to work on my Fiero. The passenger door had the common crack at the mirror cutout and I decided it was worth a try to fix it. I think it came out ok, I used some prepreg carbon rod on the back side to support the area front and rear of the crack and I used the evercoat 994 SMC panel adhesive to glue it together. I hope with the carbon it will hold. Next up I will be installing fieroguru's Lateral Link Relocation Kit and replacing the door glass on both sides.
I finished installing fieroguru's Lateral Link Relocation Kit yesterday evening. It does a fine job of putting the lateral links and trailing links back to where they would be before lowering the car by 1.5". Below are before and after pictures. This is after the rear was lowered approximately 1.5" inches with a coil-over setup. Charlie
It's nice to see a company that takes ownership in the quality of its products when things go wrong.
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